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Hellion
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Join date : 2017-03-15

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PostSubject: 1.5K Tournament List   1.5K Tournament List I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 24 2018, 09:41

Hi all,

I've got a little tournament going in May so time to start planning! The one thing I'm quite unsure of at the moment is how best to deck out my HQ.

The total number of points is 1499 with 7 command points.

Patrol 1 - Cult of the Red Grief
--------------------------------------
HQ
- Succubus - Archite Glaive + Blast Pistol

Troops
- Wyches x 8

Fast Attack
- Hellions x 10
- Reavers x 9 - 3 x Grav-Talons & 3 x Heat Lances

Dedicated Transport
- Raider - Disintegrator Cannon, Grisly Trophies

Patrol 2 - Kabal of the Obsidian Rose
--------------------------------------------
HQ
- Archon - Agoniser + Blaster

Troops
- Kabalite Warriors x 20 - 4 x Shredders & 2 x Dark Lances

Fast Attack
- Scourges x 5 - 4 x Blaster

Heavy Support
- Ravager - 3 x Dark Lances

Patrol 3 - Kabal of the Black Heart
------------------------------------------
HQ
- Archon - Venom Blade, Labyrinthine Cunning, Writ of the Living Muse

Troops
- Kabalite Warriors x 5

Heavy Support
- Ravager - 3 x DL
- Ravager - 3 x DL



Game Plan
The plan is fairly obvious:


  • Wyches in Raider with Archon (Obsidian Rose) & Succubus
  • Black heart Archon sits with Ravagers and takes out enemy tanks, using rerolls and generally mucking up with their plans
  • Hellions attempt to tie up medium vehicles and take objectives
  • Reavers kill / tie up enemy characters, infantry & take objectives
  • 20 strong blob of kabalite warriors in web way. They are either defense from enemy charges or to support wych cult
  • Scourges are anti-tank / TEQ / MEQ killers
  • 5 man Kabalite Warrior squad is simply tax and most likely position on a flank to prevent deep strike.


Things to note

  • My meta is fairly vehicle heavy
  • I'm often against Ad Mech / Space Wolves / Death Guard
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Crixalis
Hellion
Crixalis

Posts : 43
Join date : 2017-07-12

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PostSubject: Re: 1.5K Tournament List   1.5K Tournament List I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 24 2018, 10:09

Hellions are going to do a whole lot of nothing against those kinds of opponents. Reavers, on the other hand, are amazing units. Ditch the Hellions, get more Reavers. If you axe the Hellions and Wyches, get more Reavers and move the Scourges to this Detachment you can turn it into an Outrider.

Disintegrator Ravagers will mulch all of your most frequent opponents and are only, on average, 1 wound behind Dark Lance Ravagers against T 7 vehicles and the like. 3 Dissie Ravagers in a Spearhead with the Black Heart Archon is all the rage right now, and for good reason.

Lastly Obsidian Rose benefits a lot from increased Range on special weapons, and are even better when they're in boats. 2x Archons with Blasters, 2x 10 Warriors with Blasters and Splinter Cannons, 1x 5 Warriors with a Blaster. All of them in Raiders with Dark Lances/Disintegrators makes a Battalion with a lot of long range Dakka. Each Raider is like a mini-Ravager because of 24" Blasters.

Bonus points if you take all the Raiders from the Black Heart Spearhead, giving them all 6+ FNP. This sacrifices the increased range on the Raider's wepaon but makes it so each Raider has similar range weapons as the warriors riding inside.

All that gives you 10 CP instead of 7 and should be around the same points cost with a similar play style. If you'd like me to help draft a sample list, let me know.
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Hellion
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PostSubject: Re: 1.5K Tournament List   1.5K Tournament List I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 24 2018, 10:21

@Crixalis wrote:
Hellions are going to do a whole lot of nothing against those kinds of opponents. Reavers, on the other hand, are amazing units. Ditch the Hellions, get more Reavers. If you axe the Hellions and Wyches, get more Reavers and move the Scourges to this Detachment you can turn it into an Outrider.

Disintegrator Ravagers will mulch all of your most frequent opponents and are only, on average, 1 wound behind Dark Lance Ravagers against T 7 vehicles and the like. 3 Dissie Ravagers in a Spearhead with the Black Heart Archon is all the rage right now, and for good reason.

Lastly Obsidian Rose benefits a lot from increased Range on special weapons, and are even better when they're in boats. 2x Archons with Blasters, 2x 10 Warriors with Blasters and Splinter Cannons, 1x 5 Warriors with a Blaster. All of them in Raiders with Dark Lances/Disintegrators makes a Battalion with a lot of long range Dakka. Each Raider is like a mini-Ravager because of 24" Blasters.

Bonus points if you take all the Raiders from the Black Heart Spearhead, giving them all 6+ FNP. This sacrifices the increased range on the Raider's wepaon but makes it so each Raider has similar range weapons as the warriors riding inside.

All that gives you 10 CP instead of 7 and should be around the same points cost with a similar play style. If you'd like me to help draft a sample list, let me know.

Thanks for the advice!

You make a lot of good points, but unfortunately - My wallet disagrees.

What are the preferred targets for Hellions?

You do make good points though, I just can't afford to follow them!
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Crixalis
Hellion
Crixalis

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PostSubject: Re: 1.5K Tournament List   1.5K Tournament List I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 24 2018, 12:19

If you don’t want to buy more Reavers you could just keep the Hellions. Mostly the Hellions are a leaf blower unit, they put out a lot of shots and attacks and will mow through hordes. Their D2 weapons are slightly misleading. It doesn’t mean they should hunt multi-Wound models and hope for failed saves. It’s mostly useful against units that have access to FNP, like Ork Boyz or other Drukhari.

Use them to Bubble Wrap important units against Deep Strike Assaults and cap objectives. Their biggest issue is that against armies like Ad Mech and Death Guard you’d have to be extremely lucky if they make their points and don’t die within the first 10 minutes.

Aside from that the only models you would need are 2 Raiders and an Archon, which is easily kit-bashed. The rest of the models you already have in your first list.

If you’re really restricted with the models maybe post a list of your collection so we can help make a list around what you have.
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PostSubject: Re: 1.5K Tournament List   1.5K Tournament List I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 27 2018, 10:07

@Crixalis wrote:
If you don’t want to buy more Reavers you could just keep the Hellions. Mostly the Hellions are a leaf blower unit, they put out a lot of shots and attacks and will mow through hordes. Their D2 weapons are slightly misleading. It doesn’t mean they should hunt multi-Wound models and hope for failed saves. It’s mostly useful against units that have access to FNP, like Ork Boyz or other Drukhari.

Use them to Bubble Wrap important units against Deep Strike Assaults and cap objectives. Their biggest issue is that against armies like Ad Mech and Death Guard you’d have to be extremely lucky if they make their points and don’t die within the first 10 minutes.

Aside from that the only models you would need are 2 Raiders and an Archon, which is easily kit-bashed. The rest of the models you already have in your first list.

If you’re really restricted with the models maybe post a list of your collection so we can help make a list around what you have.

So, before I get to your post I changed things up slightly.

I swapped the Dark Lances to dissie cannons from the ravagers and brought another unit of scourges and gave both of them 4 x haywire blasters. I then took the large 20 man squad of kabs and swapped out the dark lances for splinter cannons. This looked more balanced to me.

I played a game yesterday against orks and it went well but the hellions didn't do a great deal (Although it was my first game in ages!)

I looked at removing the hellions, increasing the reavers to 12, giving them all blasters instead of heat lances and adding another 5 kabs and a dark lance to the 5 kab unit in the black heart detachment.

My collection is as follows:

1 x succubus
2 x archons
30 x Warriors (Buying another 10 on Monday)
10 x Scourges
4 x Ravagers
12 x Reavers
10 x Hellions
10 x Wyches
12 x Razorwing flocks
1 x Beast Master
4 x Venoms
1 x Raider

It's important to note that this tourney is being played on 4 x 4 boards so really favours melee and tough to remove troops.

List ended up like this

Patrol 1 - Cult of the Red Grief
--------------------------------------
HQ
- Succubus - Archite Glaive + Blast Pistol

Troops
- Wyches x 8

Fast Attack
- Hellions x 10
- Reavers x 9 - 3 x Grav-Talons & 3 x Heat Lances

Dedicated Transport
- Raider - Disintegrator Cannon, Grisly Trophies

Patrol 2 - Kabal of the Obsidian Rose
--------------------------------------------
HQ
- Archon - Agoniser + Blaster

Troops
- Kabalite Warriors x 20 - 4 x Shredders & 2 x Splinter Cannons

Fast Attack
- Scourges x 5 - 4 x Haywire
- Scourges x 5 - 4 x Haywire

Heavy Support
- Ravager - 3 x Dissie

Patrol 3 - Kabal of the Black Heart
------------------------------------------
HQ
- Archon - Venom Blade, Labyrinthine Cunning, Writ of the Living Muse

Troops
- Kabalite Warriors x 5

Heavy Support
- Ravager - 3 x Dissie
- Ravager - 3 x Dissie
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Crixalis
Hellion
Crixalis

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PostSubject: Re: 1.5K Tournament List   1.5K Tournament List I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 27 2018, 11:56

That list already looks a lot better. The only thing I might still suggest is swapping out the wyches for some more kabalites. Doing that would give you more fire power and +3 CP from detachments. We're good at assault but wyches are best if you bring 2-3 units, or one big 20 man blob, imo. Also, small boards favour Rapid Fire, too.

Something like:

Sample List:
 

The list sacrifices the Hellions and Wyches to give you more reavers, CPs and overall fire power. Keep the Archons near the warriors for re-roll aura and use the succubus and her venom to intercept/suicide charge encroaching units.

If you really like your wych raider then your up-to-date list is still really good and it's definitely worth running units you actually like to run, especially if they actually have decent rules.
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Hellion
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PostSubject: Re: 1.5K Tournament List   1.5K Tournament List I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 27 2018, 13:06

@Crixalis wrote:
That list already looks a lot better. The only thing I might still suggest is swapping out the wyches for some more kabalites. Doing that would give you more fire power and +3 CP from detachments. We're good at assault but wyches are best if you bring 2-3 units, or one big 20 man blob, imo. Also, small boards favour Rapid Fire, too.

Something like:

Sample List:
 

The list sacrifices the Hellions and Wyches to give you more reavers, CPs and overall fire power. Keep the Archons near the warriors for re-roll aura and use the succubus and her venom to intercept/suicide charge encroaching units.

If you really like your wych raider then your up-to-date list is still really good and it's definitely worth running units you actually like to run, especially if they actually have decent rules.

Gosh! Foot slogging? Surprised

I'd be far too worried about my warriors.
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Hellion
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PostSubject: Re: 1.5K Tournament List   1.5K Tournament List I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 27 2018, 13:21

@Crixalis wrote:
That list already looks a lot better. The only thing I might still suggest is swapping out the wyches for some more kabalites. Doing that would give you more fire power and +3 CP from detachments. We're good at assault but wyches are best if you bring 2-3 units, or one big 20 man blob, imo. Also, small boards favour Rapid Fire, too.

Something like:

Sample List:
 

The list sacrifices the Hellions and Wyches to give you more reavers, CPs and overall fire power. Keep the Archons near the warriors for re-roll aura and use the succubus and her venom to intercept/suicide charge encroaching units.

If you really like your wych raider then your up-to-date list is still really good and it's definitely worth running units you actually like to run, especially if they actually have decent rules.

So I took pretty much everything you did but changed the 3 10 man units to 1 20 man and 2 5 man. The reason being is I really like the idea of dropping a 20 man unit. >: D

This gave me some more points so I added some PGLs and an agoniser on the reavers.

Obsidian Rose Battalion - 5 CP

HQ

Archon, Blaster, Venom Blade, PGL - 92 pts
Archon, Blaster, Venom Blade, PGL - 92 pts

Troops

20x Warriors, 2x Shredders, SC - 172 pts
5x Warriors - 30 pts
5x Warriors - 30 pts

Black Heart Spearhead - 1 CP

HQ

Archon, Venom Blade, Splinter Pistol - 72 pts
- Labyrinthine Cunning, Writ of the Living Muse

Heavy Support

Ravager, 3x Disintegrator Cannons - 125 pts
Ravager, 3x Disintegrator Cannons - 125 pts
Ravager, 3x Disintegrator Cannons - 125 pts

Red Grief Outrider - 1 CP

HQ

Succubus, Archite Glaive, Blast Pistol - 60 pts

Fast Attack

12x Reavers, 4x Grav-Talons, 4x Blasters, 1x Agoniser - 312 pts
5x Scourges, 4x Haywire Blasters - 92 pts
5x Scourges, 4x Haywire Blasters - 92 pts

Dedicated Transport

Venom, 1x Splinter Cannon - 65 pts

Total: 1496 pts, 10 CP
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Crixalis
Hellion
Crixalis

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PostSubject: Re: 1.5K Tournament List   1.5K Tournament List I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 27 2018, 14:05

Looks good! Yeah, there's something to be said about dropping a big squad of 20 on the board Very Happy

Give those Obsidian Rose Archons some Agonisers to round it off. Might as well put the 4 points to use.

Good luck man.

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