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 best obsessionf or agressive lists (Venomspam)

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Darkin
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PostSubject: best obsessionf or agressive lists (Venomspam)   Mon Apr 23 2018, 19:10

I think its flayed skull because of all the bonuses they get if you spam transports but someone told me thats maybe poisoned tongue would be better?
what ya guys think
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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: best obsessionf or agressive lists (Venomspam)   Mon Apr 23 2018, 20:05

Pretty open ended question, depends on what your list is focussing on. I'm assuming you're talking about kabal traits here in which case yes I'd agree flayed skull is probably the most aggressive trait, but the others are all solid as well. Trait choice really comes down to personal preference I think.

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Fl4iedSkul
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PostSubject: Re: best obsessionf or agressive lists (Venomspam)   Mon Apr 23 2018, 20:47

Uhh ttly flayed skull, like omg why is that even a contest??!!?


But seriously though, it’s down to poisoned tongue or flayed skull. Basically, I’ve learnt that it’s either go all in on your vehicles or be worse off in your vehicles and be better when they go kablewy

I, myself, being the risk taker I am, like going all in in the vehicles and being able to assault hostile strongholds

Then again, plus one power from pain, Labrynthyine cunning, feel no pains on vehicles and AoV is kinda good. Maybe
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Imateria
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PostSubject: Re: best obsessionf or agressive lists (Venomspam)   Tue Apr 24 2018, 13:08

I think Flayed Skull just edges it as well, but depending on build Poisoned Tongue and Obsidian Rose can be excellent as well.

I have never been sold on the benefits of the Black Heart Obsession.
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: best obsessionf or agressive lists (Venomspam)   Tue Apr 24 2018, 13:32

If you're specifically spamming Venoms, I'd actually lean towards Poison Tongue. You don't get the extra movement, but you've already got 16" movement (so not a huge loss). And if you're being more aggressive, you'll probably get more mileage out of having rerolls outside of your transports (which also stack with an Archon's aura). You do lose out on Ignores Cover, though.

Quite honestly they do seem pretty damn close. Seems like it really does come down to personal preference.

@Imateria wrote:
I have never been sold on the benefits of the Black Heart Obsession.

I think the main benefits are the Warlord Trait, Artefact and Stratagem. It also gives vehicles a slight defensive buff, but personally I much prefer the offensive buffs offered by the other 3 Kabals.

It seems like it only really exists to facilitate a Spearhead detachment with 3 Ravagers, led by an Archon with Labyrinthine Cunning and the Unending Monologue of Vect artefact. This also lets you use Agents of Vect.

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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: best obsessionf or agressive lists (Venomspam)   Tue Apr 24 2018, 13:46

Ignores Cover is huge against a lot of opponents. Against hunkering down MEQ it doubles your damage output with splinter weaponry.
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Irinc
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PostSubject: Re: best obsessionf or agressive lists (Venomspam)   Tue Apr 24 2018, 22:29

@Burnage wrote:
Ignores Cover is huge against a lot of opponents. Against hunkering down MEQ it doubles your damage output with splinter weaponry.

I hope im getting this right: Flayed Skull ignores cover for the Dark Lance of a Raider as well, does it?
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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: best obsessionf or agressive lists (Venomspam)   Tue Apr 24 2018, 22:48

@Irinc wrote:
@Burnage wrote:
Ignores Cover is huge against a lot of opponents. Against hunkering down MEQ it doubles your damage output with splinter weaponry.

I hope im getting this right: Flayed Skull ignores cover for the Dark Lance of a Raider as well, does it?

Yep. All weapons ignore cover, but only rapid fire weapons get re-rolls to hit rolls of 1 (i.e., just Splinter Rifles and Splinter Cannons).
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Fl4iedSkul
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PostSubject: Re: best obsessionf or agressive lists (Venomspam)   Sat Apr 28 2018, 08:54

@Soulless Samurai wrote:
You don't get the extra movement, but you've already got 16" movement (so not a huge loss). And if you're being more aggressive, you'll probably get more mileage out of having rerolls outside of your transports (which stacks with Archon's aura)

.

I don't know about you, but in smaller games getting an 19" moves is required. I was playing competitively yesterday and I found that the extra 3" allowed one of my Venoms to secure the relic and my other to push into the enemy's troop choice. It's ignore cover works wonders in ruin filled maps, e.g Moon Base Klasius which, in my house's rules, has larger ruins than normal giving my troops places to hide, and no enemy leaves my sight.

You're right that stacking with Archon is useful. However, with the aggressiveness that I have, my Archon is normally far behind all of my troops transports with him normally just getting in in time to assassinate the enemy's Warlord which means the reroll won't need to stack anyways

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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: best obsessionf or agressive lists (Venomspam)   Sun Apr 29 2018, 02:15

Im going to have to put my $0.02 behind Black Heart. Not for their buff to the venom itself, but to the venom spam build. By buffing the warriors within and all the other supporting elements in the Kabal army, Black Heart deserves a shout-out.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: best obsessionf or agressive lists (Venomspam)   Sun Apr 29 2018, 03:47

I would do Obsidian Rose and spam 5mans with a blasters, doing this 9x with 2 archons is 1250pts. Giving you room for many more things still.

Obsidian Rose everything will have +6" this could keep you out of Rapid fire range for longer, away from melee, and that will also make you more survivable in a way, while dealing more damage due to your rapid fire and blaster range

B.c poison is death by 1000 cuts, you need to live longer rather than do an extra wound per venom, Obsidian rose will help with both.

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withershadow
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PostSubject: Re: best obsessionf or agressive lists (Venomspam)   Sun Apr 29 2018, 04:19

Flayed Skull feels most appropriate for Venom Spam. You want to stay in your transports as long as possible, so the Flayed Skull dancing at 18" (where you can still fire the blaster and the venom's splinter cannons in RF range) seems nice.

With Poisoned Tongue, I would go for larger units with splinter cannons, with the intent to get close to the enemy and disembark near an Archon for re-rolling all the 1s. Raiders get nothing from this obsession, so I'd borrow raiders from black heart or flayed skull.

Obsidian Rose can go in any direction, whether lots of Venoms to really keep a distance (21" rapid fire on cannons, 15" RF on rifles, 18" shredders, 24" blasters), or no transports at all with footslogging 20-man warrior units.
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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: best obsessionf or agressive lists (Venomspam)   Sat May 05 2018, 20:19

Are people going back to the 7th ed loadout of dual SC in their Venomspam lists? I have not been using Venomspam as a primary damage output mechanism for the army, but rather a mobile objective/reinforcement mechanism. Having a few venoms full of guys/gals really pale in comparison to Ravagers or RWJFs.

Venomspam has a very important place in an aggressive list, buts its more of a mobile reserve unit for the rest of the army, not a hammer on its own. The points saved by leaving the 10pt SC behind add up, and could usually be better used elsewhere in the list.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: best obsessionf or agressive lists (Venomspam)   Sat May 05 2018, 20:42

All 9 of mine are built that way, its the only reason why i do....

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Dodo_Night
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PostSubject: Re: best obsessionf or agressive lists (Venomspam)   Tue May 08 2018, 21:03


I'm currently doing venom spam with 4 units of 5 kabalites with a blaster and phantasm grenade launcher. with the flayed skull obcession and that -1 to hit, it's really hard for my opponent to focus on any part of my army as I'm all over the place either hiding from most of his or too fast for his slow troops. razorwings on top of venoms adds to this. venom 5 has my two archons with blast pistols and huskbliades (one is warlord with djin blade and hatred eternal). once my venoms and razorwings have cleared the way, my archons lesiurely stroll up the enemy characters and behead them. Begin evil laughter =)

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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: best obsessionf or agressive lists (Venomspam)   Wed May 09 2018, 14:06

Don´t forget to add a Lhamaean to the Archon squad. If that venom explodes, you have a redshirt to sacrifice.
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Worm
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PostSubject: Re: best obsessionf or agressive lists (Venomspam)   Thu May 10 2018, 11:21

I have few questions regarding: Kabal of the flayed skies:
- units in transports can re-role to hit if they get 1?
- units in transport also ignores cover when shooing at enemy units in cover?
- units in transport can get re-roll to hit from Archon even if is in transport?


Last edited by Worm on Thu May 10 2018, 11:29; edited 1 time in total
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: best obsessionf or agressive lists (Venomspam)   Thu May 10 2018, 11:25

@Worm wrote:
I have few questions regarding: Kabal of the flayed skies:

I think you mean 'Flayed Skull'. Wink

@Worm wrote:

- units in transports can re-role to hit if they get 1?
- units and transport also ignore cover on enemy units?

So long as those units are Flayed Skull, yes.

@Worm wrote:
- units in transport can get re-roll to hit from Archon even if is in transport?

No. Not even the Archon can get rerolls from his aura when in a transport.

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Worm
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PostSubject: Re: best obsessionf or agressive lists (Venomspam)   Thu May 10 2018, 11:30

Thanks for answers
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withershadow
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PostSubject: Re: best obsessionf or agressive lists (Venomspam)   Sat May 12 2018, 20:07

@Worm wrote:
Thanks for answers
Note that you can only re-roll rapid fire weapons, but all weapons ignore cover.
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