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 Beastmasters and beasts

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Niiai
Hellion


Posts : 79
Join date : 2013-01-30
Location : Bergen

PostSubject: Beastmasters and beasts   Fri Apr 20 2018, 20:57

What are peoples opinions on beasts? Have anybody mathammered it?

I like to compare the Khymera to the humble tyranid genestealer.

GS: 14 points, S4 T4, WS3, 3/4 attacks, 5++ (often 5+++ as well). Move 8, but can charge after advance. , Rending on a 6.


Khymera: 10 points, S4 T4, WS3, 3 attacks, 5++. Move 10. Re-rolls 1's to hit with a beastmaster around

After 10 Khymera you break even on getting a free beastmaster. After that the khymera are cheaper, wheras the genstealers get one extra attack.

I am a bad judge on the other two beasts.
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Kantalla
Wych
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Posts : 851
Join date : 2015-12-21

PostSubject: Re: Beastmasters and beasts   Fri Apr 20 2018, 21:37

Mathammer has been done.

Check the damage analysis link in my signature for a detailed answer of beasts against the other options we have. They seem a bit underwhelming to me now.

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Soulless Samurai
Wych
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Posts : 563
Join date : 2018-04-02

PostSubject: Re: Beastmasters and beasts   Fri Apr 20 2018, 22:25

I think you're missing some key differences:
- Genestealers are troops, whilst Khymerae are fast attack
- Khymerae can't be taken at all without a Beastmaster
- Khymerae are limited to 3 per detachment
- Khymerae have a pathetic Ld4 on their own, and are only Ld6 even with a Beastmaster nearby - whereas Genestealers are Ld9 by default and can easily be made immune to Morale entirely via Syanpse.
- In addition to Rending, Genestealers have AP-1 on their weapons, whilst Khymerae have no AP (or Rending).
- Genestealers can benefit from Tyranid Hive Fleet Adaptations, as well as other rules like the aforementioned Synapse, psychic powers, auras etc. In contrast, Khymerae don't get Cult Obsessions, can't benefit from a Succubus' aura, don't get Power from Pain and, frankly, might as well belong to a different army for all the support they get.

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Cerve
Wych
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Posts : 684
Join date : 2014-10-05
Location : Ferrara - Emiglia Romagna

PostSubject: Re: Beastmasters and beasts   Sat Apr 21 2018, 00:42

As a player who found footslogging Wyches pretty good, I will always choose more of them than Khymerae. The Beastmaster still overcosted, and he got even nerfed with the Codex :-/
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Lord Asvaldir
Wych
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Join date : 2015-12-06
Location : Washington DC

PostSubject: Re: Beastmasters and beasts   Sat Apr 21 2018, 01:05

Yeah I'm not a fan of how expensive the beastmaster is, his aura isn't bad despite the debuff but paying 36pts for a character that has the damage output of less than a single hellion is pretty mediocre.

I haven't tried beasts yet because I don't have a beastmaster. I do have 15 razorwing flocks I want to try using, maybe two flocks of 6 chilling with a splintermind beastmaster to be a distraction and go after anything t3 likely. Not too optimistic about how useful they will be though.

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Soulless Samurai
Wych
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Join date : 2018-04-02

PostSubject: Re: Beastmasters and beasts   Sat Apr 21 2018, 09:23

@Lord Asvaldir wrote:
Yeah I'm not a fan of how expensive the beastmaster is, his aura isn't bad despite the debuff but paying 36pts for a character that has the damage output of less than a single hellion is pretty mediocre.

Regarding the Beast Master, it irritates me that his Skyboard is 2" slower than that of a Hellion with no explanation given. I know it's not a major issue or anything, it's just one of those things that bugs me.

I disagree on his aura not being bad. Rerolling 1s is okay on stuff that hits on 2s and 3s, but when you're hitting on 4s it's pretty meagre. Especially given that this is the only buff beasts have access to - lacking both PfP and Obsessions.

I do wonder if the Beastmaster would have worked better as an HQ choice. Maybe even a Mercenary one.

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Cerve
Wych
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Posts : 684
Join date : 2014-10-05
Location : Ferrara - Emiglia Romagna

PostSubject: Re: Beastmasters and beasts   Sat Apr 21 2018, 10:21

It's kinda a pity because I like Khymeraes personally. But the Beastmaster at 40 points it's like a mandatory tax.

I find it usefull only for detatchment purpose. It open up a Vanguard Cult, if you really need it (maybe you're playing with no double detatchment, and you really need those wyches or just 1 Hellions I don't know...). Haemi+3xScourges+Talos it's a nice way to bring in 3 Talos in a single unit, without paying for Grotesques or Wracks (and Scourges rocks now, even post betaFaQ so wjy not?). Maybe you can do something like with Beastmasters.

But yes, I don't really like them at 40 points.
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Rusty293
Hellion


Posts : 42
Join date : 2014-03-29

PostSubject: Re: Beastmasters and beasts   Wed Apr 25 2018, 06:37

Do you actually have to take a beast master to take the beasts? Looking through the book it seems to me that you can still take the beasts without a beast master, they just take up a fast attack slot. If thats the case taking 2 khymerae to fill out an outrider slot might be pretty useful. Of course if I've missed some obvious rule then disregard this!
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yellabelly
Kabalite Warrior
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Posts : 238
Join date : 2017-11-16

PostSubject: Re: Beastmasters and beasts   Wed Apr 25 2018, 08:23

You can't in matched play. There's a section of "advanced rules" limiting the court and beasts to only being available with an archon and beast master respectively.

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