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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: Post FAQ Tournament Tactica - AKA How to Win More   Tue Apr 24 2018, 13:38

Link the rule because I am sure that is not what it says.

Just reread it. It says all you need to have the stratagems is a detachment of the appropriate faction. Since the codex clearly states that *all* stratagems are unlocked by having *any* Dark Eldar detachment then rules as written my interpretation is correct. This is the exact same way other major tournament lists used stratagems. Rules as written I am correct.

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PostSubject: Re: Post FAQ Tournament Tactica - AKA How to Win More   Tue Apr 24 2018, 13:42

Literally all the BRB FAQ says about unlocking stratagems is this;

Quote :
Also note that the only requirement to have access to Stratagems is that you have a Detachment of the appropriate Faction.

Per our Codex, the appropriate faction to unlock all Drukhari stratagems (including specific ones like Agents of Vect) is any Drukhari detachment.
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PostSubject: Re: Post FAQ Tournament Tactica - AKA How to Win More   Tue Apr 24 2018, 13:45

Burnage has it. Now back to the task at hand, figuring out a way to take all 3 parts of the army with obsessions and plenty of CP and minimal unit tax. Anyone wanna take a stab at that one? I got some popcorn in the microwave.

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PostSubject: Re: Post FAQ Tournament Tactica - AKA How to Win More   Tue Apr 24 2018, 13:45

@Burnage wrote:
Literally all the BRB FAQ says about unlocking stratagems is this;

Quote :
Also note that the only requirement to have access to Stratagems is that you have a Detachment of the appropriate Faction.

Per our Codex, the appropriate faction to unlock all Drukhari stratagems (including specific ones like Agents of Vect) is any Drukhari detachment.

No because Cabal/Cult/Coven are also faction . Considering you need a pure faction detachement to use a faction related stratagem it seems pretty straigthforward to me
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PostSubject: Re: Post FAQ Tournament Tactica - AKA How to Win More   Tue Apr 24 2018, 13:46

@Burnage wrote:
Literally all the BRB FAQ says about unlocking stratagems is this;

Quote :
Also note that the only requirement to have access to Stratagems is that you have a Detachment of the appropriate Faction.

Per our Codex, the appropriate faction to unlock all Drukhari stratagems (including specific ones like Agents of Vect) is any Drukhari detachment.

But if you read the rulebook about keywords, it says that unit's factions ARE the same of their keywords.
A Kabal Warrior has 3 Factions:
-Aeldari;
-Drukhari;
-<Kabal>.

Detatchments works in the same way. A detatchement has the factions linked with the factions of their units. So a BlackHeart Detatchment has both Aeldar, Drukhari and BlackHeart factions (beacuse all of his units will have those 3 factions keywords).

Said, some stratagems needs the "Drukhari" faction, where some others need the <Kabal>, <Cult>, <Coven> faction. So if you want to get access to Agents of Vect, which is a BlackHeart Stratagem (not a Drukhari Stratagem), you need Detatchment with the BlackHeart Faction.


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PostSubject: Re: Post FAQ Tournament Tactica - AKA How to Win More   Tue Apr 24 2018, 13:47

Well Quauch feel free to explain that to the NOVA judges because that's who I'm going off of and frankly their rules comprehension has a little more clout with me.

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PostSubject: Re: Post FAQ Tournament Tactica - AKA How to Win More   Tue Apr 24 2018, 13:49

@TeenageAngst wrote:
Well Quauch feel free to explain that to the NOVA judges because that's who I'm going off of and frankly their rules comprehension has a little more clout with me.

Just tip them with new Rulebook FaQ's. Before them, the rules were cloudy, and Agents where free for any Drukhari.
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PostSubject: Re: Post FAQ Tournament Tactica - AKA How to Win More   Tue Apr 24 2018, 13:49

@TeenageAngst wrote:
Well Quauch feel free to explain that to the NOVA judges because that's who I'm going off of and frankly their rules comprehension has a little more clout with me.

Read cere explanation, i can't be more clear than him
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PostSubject: Re: Post FAQ Tournament Tactica - AKA How to Win More   Tue Apr 24 2018, 13:50

Tip them? They're the ones using it to explain to people online how to run their armies correctly. Yes you can still use it in any Dark Eldar detachment rules as written. You might not like it but that's how it is written currently and widely interpreted.

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PostSubject: Re: Post FAQ Tournament Tactica - AKA How to Win More   Tue Apr 24 2018, 13:53

@Cerve wrote:
Said, some stratagems needs the "Drukhari" faction, where some others need the <Kabal>, <Cult>, <Coven> faction.

Absolutely nothing in the rules states this clearly. Going by our Codex, all Drukhari stratagems - including the sub-faction ones - just qualify as "Drukhari" stratagems and will be unlocked alongside any Drukhari detachment.

The big limiter to this normally is that most sub-faction stratagems specifically target units of that specific sub-faction, so at the very least you'd want to be running some of those units. Agents of Vect is a major exception.
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PostSubject: Re: Post FAQ Tournament Tactica - AKA How to Win More   Tue Apr 24 2018, 13:55

@Burnage wrote:
@Cerve wrote:
Said, some stratagems needs the "Drukhari" faction, where some others need the <Kabal>, <Cult>, <Coven> faction.

Absolutely nothing in the rules states this clearly. Going by our Codex, all Drukhari stratagems - including the sub-faction ones - just qualify as "Drukhari" stratagems and will be unlocked alongside any Drukhari detachment.

The big limiter to this normally is that most sub-faction stratagems specifically target units of that specific sub-faction, so at the very least you'd want to be running some of those units. Agents of Vect is a major exception.

You need a detachement of the appropriate faction to use a stratagme , thats the phrase you bring from big faq rigth ?

Agent Of Vect is a black heart stratageme, Black Heart is a faction so you need a pure black heart detachement to use Agent of Vect.

I'm sorry but thats seems pretty obvious to me so i really start to have the feeling you just dont want to understand


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PostSubject: Re: Post FAQ Tournament Tactica - AKA How to Win More   Tue Apr 24 2018, 13:56

How's that letter to the judges coming along?

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PostSubject: Re: Post FAQ Tournament Tactica - AKA How to Win More   Tue Apr 24 2018, 14:06

@Burnage wrote:
@Cerve wrote:
Said, some stratagems needs the "Drukhari" faction, where some others need the <Kabal>, <Cult>, <Coven> faction.

Absolutely nothing in the rules states this clearly. Going by our Codex, all Drukhari stratagems - including the sub-faction ones - just qualify as "Drukhari" stratagems and will be unlocked alongside any Drukhari detachment.

The big limiter to this normally is that most sub-faction stratagems specifically target units of that specific sub-faction, so at the very least you'd want to be running some of those units. Agents of Vect is a major exception.

In my codex subfaction stratageme are not called Drukhari stratageme ....
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PostSubject: Re: Post FAQ Tournament Tactica - AKA How to Win More   Tue Apr 24 2018, 14:13

I would also say that you need a BH detachment for Agents of Vect. As it is described as "Kabal of the Black Heart Stratagem" instead of "Drukhari Stratagem" like most of the others.

For me it is clear that a Drukhari Detachment alone is not enough to use Agents of Vect.
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PostSubject: Re: Post FAQ Tournament Tactica - AKA How to Win More   Tue Apr 24 2018, 14:14

Yeah, I gotta agree with the others here. BoLS is what started this I rumor do believe. As much as I love them they're quick to release articles without thinking through what they're writing.

If you look at the header for your Strategem, it clearly says "Black Heart Strategem" so sure, the text in the middle doesn't have a bolded keyword for it... but the title does!! Razz Show me the BRB that says "the body text must have a bolded keyword to be valid" and I'll concede.

Besides even if it was true it's cheesing the game. Even in a tournament setting I wouldn't go that far hah (and a TO would probably squash it too for that matter!). And if you're even attempting it in a non-tournament setting you're a dingus mwhah. Similar to the whole "infinite AoA's" - it was BS and everyone knew it. Only time I would even consider using something like that would be verse an fine gentleman WAAC player heh.

Regardless, I don't wanna jump into this even though I just did lol. Best of luck out there guys and lemme know if you have any suggestions or would like some help with anything


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PostSubject: Re: Post FAQ Tournament Tactica - AKA How to Win More   Tue Apr 24 2018, 14:14

@Quauchtemoc wrote:
@Burnage wrote:
@Cerve wrote:
Said, some stratagems needs the "Drukhari" faction, where some others need the <Kabal>, <Cult>, <Coven> faction.

Absolutely nothing in the rules states this clearly. Going by our Codex, all Drukhari stratagems - including the sub-faction ones - just qualify as "Drukhari" stratagems and will be unlocked alongside any Drukhari detachment.

The big limiter to this normally is that most sub-faction stratagems specifically target units of that specific sub-faction, so at the very least you'd want to be running some of those units. Agents of Vect is a major exception.

In my codex subfaction stratageme are not called Drukhari stratageme ....

At the top of page 118, it states "If your army is Battle-forged and includes any DRUKHARI Detachments (excluding Auxiliary Support Detachments), you have access to the stratagems shown here, meaning you can spend Command Points to activate them." This would suggest that the appropriate faction to unlock all of the Stratagems is Drukhari. What's actually listed on the stratagem card, for the purposes of rules, doesn't seem currently to be anything more than flavour text.

I'll agree that this does feel a bit like rules abuse, but it was a pretty major issue before the FAQ (especially in Ynnari lists) and that GW didn't take the effort to prevent it more clearly suggests to me that it might actually be intentional.
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PostSubject: Re: Post FAQ Tournament Tactica - AKA How to Win More   Tue Apr 24 2018, 14:16

@Burnage wrote:
@Quauchtemoc wrote:
@Burnage wrote:
@Cerve wrote:
Said, some stratagems needs the "Drukhari" faction, where some others need the <Kabal>, <Cult>, <Coven> faction.

Absolutely nothing in the rules states this clearly. Going by our Codex, all Drukhari stratagems - including the sub-faction ones - just qualify as "Drukhari" stratagems and will be unlocked alongside any Drukhari detachment.

The big limiter to this normally is that most sub-faction stratagems specifically target units of that specific sub-faction, so at the very least you'd want to be running some of those units. Agents of Vect is a major exception.

In my codex subfaction stratageme are not called Drukhari stratageme ....

At the top of page 118, it states "If your army is Battle-forged and includes any DRUKHARI Detachments (excluding Auxiliary Support Detachments), you have access to the stratagems shown here, meaning you can spend Command Points to activate them." This would suggest that the appropriate faction to unlock all of the Stratagems is Drukhari. What's actually listed on the stratagem card, for the purposes of rules, doesn't seem currently to be anything more than flavour text.

I'll agree that this does feel a bit like rules abuse, but it was a pretty major issue before the FAQ (especially in Ynnari lists) and that GW didn't take the effort to prevent it more clearly suggests to me that it might actually be intentional.

Yes i saw that after but i'm still sure its rule abuse, there was only  2 week between codex release and big faq, not enough time to cover all the issue . And they probably though the other clarification they made was enough to end this question anyway


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PostSubject: Re: Post FAQ Tournament Tactica - AKA How to Win More   Tue Apr 24 2018, 14:17



Quote :
Yes i saw that after but i'm still sure its rule abuse, they was only  2 week between codex release and big faq, not enough time to cover all the issue .



Agreed. They've still never answered my question about WS1+ Sad
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PostSubject: Re: Post FAQ Tournament Tactica - AKA How to Win More   Tue Apr 24 2018, 15:21

How about this, for purposes of me talking about NOVA and further tournaments, it's RAW, but for anything friendly or outside of that sphere it is RAI? Otherwise we will be on different pages until doomsday or GW releases another FAQ.

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PostSubject: Re: Post FAQ Tournament Tactica - AKA How to Win More   Tue Apr 24 2018, 16:11

If you try and use say the obsidian rose ld stratagem on anything other than a unit from the obsidian rose kabal and think that is cool or even right than you are an idiot. Especially if you don't have any obsidian rose detachments in your army.

I'd swear people are on dark city now just for trolling.  Dark city just seems like a troll site now. Which is really unfortunate. As this site used to be great. Now it is all doom and gloom and complaining

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PostSubject: Re: Post FAQ Tournament Tactica - AKA How to Win More   Tue Apr 24 2018, 16:33

I mean that's the rules. I run a Brigade of Black Heart, Red Grief, and Prophets all mixed. I can use all their respective stratagems in spite of it being one big mixed brigade because they're all still DE and have the appropriate keywords. No one is saying you can use mismatched stratagems on different factions. I'm saying I don't need an entire Prophets detachment to respawn my Prophets Wracks in my Brigade, so long as that Brigade is a Dark Eldar detachment.
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PostSubject: Re: Post FAQ Tournament Tactica - AKA How to Win More   Tue Apr 24 2018, 16:39

@TeenageAngst wrote:
How about this, for purposes of me talking about NOVA and further tournaments, it's RAW, but for anything friendly or outside of that sphere it is RAI? Otherwise we will be on different pages until doomsday or GW releases another FAQ.

Well if your local tournament are agree with it their is nothing i can do about it, but i'm quite sure it will not be the case everywhere. But its true , RAW it could be understand like that but considering every codex have the same introduction before their stratagem then i can mix different eldar craftworld and then use all the stratagem if i want ( for exemple )
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PostSubject: Re: Post FAQ Tournament Tactica - AKA How to Win More   Tue Apr 24 2018, 16:54

@Quauchtemoc wrote:
@TeenageAngst wrote:
How about this, for purposes of me talking about NOVA and further tournaments, it's RAW, but for anything friendly or outside of that sphere it is RAI? Otherwise we will be on different pages until doomsday or GW releases another FAQ.

Well if your local tournament are agree with it their is nothing i can do about it, but i'm quite sure it will not be the case everywhere. But its true , RAW it could be understand like that but considering every codex have the same introduction before their stratagem then i can mix different eldar craftworld and then use all the stratagem if i want ( for exemple )

Yep, this is part of the reason why Ynnari were doing so well pre-FAQ. You could take a small Alaitoc detachment to unlock all the Craftworlds stratagems, then run a mixed Ynnari detachment that included some Saim-Hann bikers - they could then use the Saim-Hann stratagem while also taking advantage of Strength from Death. This wasn't happening at local tournaments, this is exactly how the winner of the Las Vegas Open ran his list.
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PostSubject: Re: Post FAQ Tournament Tactica - AKA How to Win More   Tue Apr 24 2018, 16:58

@Burnage wrote:
@Quauchtemoc wrote:
@TeenageAngst wrote:
How about this, for purposes of me talking about NOVA and further tournaments, it's RAW, but for anything friendly or outside of that sphere it is RAI? Otherwise we will be on different pages until doomsday or GW releases another FAQ.

Well if your local tournament are agree with it their is nothing i can do about it, but i'm quite sure it will not be the case everywhere. But its true , RAW it could be understand like that but considering every codex have the same introduction before their stratagem then i can mix different eldar craftworld and then use all the stratagem if i want ( for exemple )

Yep, this is part of the reason why Ynnari were doing so well pre-FAQ. You could take a small Alaitoc detachment to unlock all the Craftworlds stratagems, then run a mixed Ynnari detachment that included some Saim-Hann bikers - they could then use the Saim-Hann stratagem while also taking advantage of Strength from Death. This wasn't happening at local tournaments, this is exactly how the winner of the Las Vegas Open ran his list.

Ok i see, very bad writting from GW here . But why its diffrent post FAQ then ?
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PostSubject: Re: Post FAQ Tournament Tactica - AKA How to Win More   Tue Apr 24 2018, 17:14

@Quauchtemoc wrote:
@Burnage wrote:
@Quauchtemoc wrote:
@TeenageAngst wrote:
How about this, for purposes of me talking about NOVA and further tournaments, it's RAW, but for anything friendly or outside of that sphere it is RAI? Otherwise we will be on different pages until doomsday or GW releases another FAQ.

Well if your local tournament are agree with it their is nothing i can do about it, but i'm quite sure it will not be the case everywhere. But its true , RAW it could be understand like that but considering every codex have the same introduction before their stratagem then i can mix different eldar craftworld and then use all the stratagem if i want ( for exemple )

Yep, this is part of the reason why Ynnari were doing so well pre-FAQ. You could take a small Alaitoc detachment to unlock all the Craftworlds stratagems, then run a mixed Ynnari detachment that included some Saim-Hann bikers - they could then use the Saim-Hann stratagem while also taking advantage of Strength from Death. This wasn't happening at local tournaments, this is exactly how the winner of the Las Vegas Open ran his list.

Ok i see, very bad writting from GW here . But why its diffrent post FAQ then ?

Nothing about stratagems, depending on how you interpret "appropriate faction" - in fact it's actually easier since now you don't need a different Craftworlds detachment. I just think the changes to how to build the army mean the Ynnari aren't going to be doing so well post-FAQ.

If you want to run all three Eldar factions as Ynnari now - which was pretty much always the point of the faction! - you're looking at a 610 point tax.
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