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 Post FAQ conundrum

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Lord Weston
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PostSubject: Post FAQ conundrum   Wed Apr 18 2018, 19:04

Hello all first time poster here looking for some advice. So I have been playing a few games play testing the new codex before buying models and I have found a nice list that looks like this.
A flayed skull battalion consisting of two archons with husk blades and pistols 3 x 5 warriors with no extras, 3 raiders with lances, two disintegrator lances and 2 razorwings with lances. A cult of strife battalion with 2 succubi one with the whip and blood dancer trait the other with an impaler 1 unit of 8 wyches and 2 of 5 wyches 2 raiders. An outrider detachment led by a prophets of flesh haemonculi to allow me to use alliance of agony for "free" and 3x5 scourges with haywire blasters and 8 incubi. This gave me a really nice mix of stuff and a good number of command points at 2k. In the games I played with it I usually deep struck the scourges in on turn one this was primarily to protect them from getting shot at (they are squishy and the army has quite a high number of drops). They were phenomenally successful in this role hands down my best units and an absolute steal for the points.

So the big FAQ has obviously thrown a spanner in the works here. I can only place them in my deployment zone if they deep strike in turn one. Which feels like it will massively reduce their effectiveness as a canny player will make sure his vehicles are out of range and I am not sure if squishy dark eldar can wait for the second turn for them against certain armies.

I am torn between two options here and after peoples thoughts
1) Leaving the army as is and hoping the scourges can still do a good job - I do retain the CPs and alliance of agony but are the scourges still going to be as effective? I am thinking deploy 2 and hold one in DS for a back up on turn 2
2) Swapping the scourges and 1 of the fliers for 3 ravagers with dark lances. These will then be part of a vanguard detachment led by the haemonculus with all four models loosing the obsessions - although this allows me to retain the alliance from agony and the same number of command points the loss of the obsession on both units feels like quite a big loss as I no longer get bonus cps for diabolical soothsayer so using the alliance of agony reduces my CPS and obviously the lack of ignoring cover on the ravager lances is a bit of a shame.

Which do people think is best? Or is there a third option I haven't spotted?
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Skulnbonz
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PostSubject: Re: Post FAQ conundrum   Wed Apr 18 2018, 19:19

I wouldn't change a thing, and drop the scourges round two.
You have more than enough to weather any storm, and you holding the scourges in reserve an extra turn (or two) can have the added benefit of making your opponent hold back with a unit or two to counter your drop.

Just plan your movement and positioning for a turn 2 or 3 beat down when the scourges drop!

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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: Post FAQ conundrum   Wed Apr 18 2018, 19:33

Wyches weren't good on deepstriking anyway, not a great loss here. The ladies are better on the battlefield (both footslogging or embarked).


Scourges will go down on turn 2.

For us, nearly nothing is changed
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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: Post FAQ conundrum   Wed Apr 18 2018, 23:03

Do you know what is seriously dead with these FaQs?

Good bye Court....before it was 4x detatchment. Right now is 3x for typo. My gosh....
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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: Post FAQ conundrum   Wed Apr 18 2018, 23:11

@Cerve wrote:
Do you know what is seriously dead with these FaQs?

Good bye Court....before it was 4x detatchment. Right now is 3x for typo. My gosh....

To be fair, I don't think that the Court was ever intended to be spammed in the way that the rule of three prohibits. Running a Sslyth, Lhamaean, Ur-ghul and Medusae together is still fine.
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withershadow
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PostSubject: Re: Post FAQ conundrum   Wed Apr 18 2018, 23:15

Really, that is "seriously dead"? Court models are still good, and if nothing else, are cheap fillers you can throw in Venoms to die instead of your HQs when they blow up.

A 3 Lhamean + Ur-Ghul or Sslyth is still a pretty sweet little backup combat squad. If anything, we now have a reason to use the full variety of court options.

The Sslyth party bus is dead before it began, though, yeah, unless you play open/narrative/non-organized match play, which is the type of silly setting you probably would want to run something like that anyway.
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N3ver mercy
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PostSubject: Re: Post FAQ conundrum   Wed Apr 18 2018, 23:20

Only problem is if you end up in a kill point game, that rather weak venom and it's crew are a easy 6 kill points.... Not so nice confused

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PFI
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PostSubject: Re: Post FAQ conundrum   Wed Apr 18 2018, 23:28

@Lord Weston wrote:

2) Swapping the scourges and 1 of the fliers for 3 ravagers with dark lances. These will then be part of a vanguard detachment led by the haemonculus with all four models loosing the obsessions - although this allows me to retain the alliance from agony and the same number of command points the loss of the obsession on both units feels like quite a big loss as I no longer get bonus cps for diabolical soothsayer so using the alliance of agony reduces my CPS and obviously the lack of ignoring cover on the ravager lances is a bit of a shame.

Which do people think is best? Or is there a third option I haven't spotted?

Just because you lose the obsession does not mean you lose the keyword. You can still take diabolical soothsayer, you just won't get the 4++
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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: Post FAQ conundrum   Thu Apr 19 2018, 00:13

Ok guys, no, seriously. Ur-Ghoul are useless (1model per charge), Lhaemeans were """fine""" if almost 8, amd 3 Medusae are litterally to less to do something with.
3 Sslyths still viable..

But 1x is stupid. Makes only 1 Court unit of 4 models. 4 models alone is sensless.


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withershadow
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PostSubject: Re: Post FAQ conundrum   Thu Apr 19 2018, 00:29

3 Sslyth + Medusa - shooting court (with backup melee)
3 Lhameans + Ur-ghul - full melee court?

I really don't see your problem with the Ur-ghul. It's priced like 2 Grave Lotus Wyches, and it basically is (S4, 6 attacks, splits the difference with 5++ and gets an extra wound instead of obsession). Archons give it re-rolls to hit, Black Heart gives it 6++, and Poisoned Tongue re-roll 1s to wound. It would be the first thing I'd sacrifice, sure, but it's not bad.
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LordSplata
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PostSubject: Re: Post FAQ conundrum   Thu Apr 19 2018, 00:31

The "fine" lhaemeans are point for point our best combat troops point for point, with some dodgy rules for kill points. Seriously they are few attack high damage beasts in combat.
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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: Post FAQ conundrum   Thu Apr 19 2018, 01:41

@withershadow wrote:
3 Sslyth + Medusa - shooting court (with backup melee)
3 Lhameans + Ur-ghul - full melee court?

I really don't see your problem with the Ur-ghul. It's priced like 2 Grave Lotus Wyches, and it basically is (S4, 6 attacks, splits the difference with 5++ and gets an extra wound instead of obsession). Archons give it re-rolls to hit, Black Heart gives it 6++, and Poisoned Tongue re-roll 1s to wound.  It would be the first thing I'd sacrifice, sure, but it's not bad.

Good luck rolling a charge one by one. With no PfP. That is what I hate. If you take out <character>, just take in 1 single unit made of 4 model court. Is that so difficult?

And one of them is going to blow up when the Raider/Venom will blow up. Dunno, I really find the new composition really annoying.
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withershadow
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PostSubject: Re: Post FAQ conundrum   Thu Apr 19 2018, 01:54

That's fair, although Lhameans do have power from pain (so do Medusae for some reason). Making them a unit would be nice for VPs, certainly, although given that some models have PfP and others do not, you would lose the re-roll on all of them.
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shadowseercB
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PostSubject: Re: Post FAQ conundrum   Thu Apr 19 2018, 05:44

OP, I would keep the list as is and play a few games then adjust as needed.  Scourge are still kick ass and if you got second turn your opponent may move vehicles up the field meaning on your turn you can DS them in your deployment zone and be in range just fine.  If you go first it is okay to wait a turn as long as you have the durability to do so, scourge are really cheap for what they do so it is not a big loss to make them wait a turn.

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Post FAQ conundrum   Thu Apr 19 2018, 11:26

I wouldnt change anything yet either, also remember Scourges with HWB shoot 24", there might be viable targets turn 1 still, and you can keep a unit on the table too if you must.

I only say this b.c you said you like this play style.

To add: If you wanted too in the future or even to try, you can swap out 1 Ravager with 1 Scourge and see if you like it.

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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: Post FAQ conundrum   Thu Apr 19 2018, 11:55

Ye I don't think I'll change something too.


Good point on Ur-Ghuls! Now, 3 of them are a pretty good amount of damage. Still they need to charge one by one withou any reroll (and exposing them into a significantly overwatch).
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Lord Weston
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PostSubject: Re: Post FAQ conundrum   Thu Apr 19 2018, 12:05

Thanks for all the advice folks. PFI that's a really good point about keeping the keyword I had missed that completely. I will try sticking with the scourges. In the games I have had haywire has far outperformed the dark lances. Had 13 shots do one wound in a round before now which was pretty sickening
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