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Zaphod_Beeblebrox
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PostSubject: bladevanes on reavers   Fri Nov 18 2011, 18:01

a short question on bladevanes (and cluster-caltrops and grav-talons for that matter).

let's say after throwing your D3's you come up with 6 hits. Then what? do you go straight to throwing for wounds or do you have to throw for BS or something?
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Marquis Vaulkhere
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PostSubject: Re: bladevanes on reavers   Fri Nov 18 2011, 18:10

I beleve that what you do is pass over your target and then roll the dice for all of your veins. Whatever the result is howmany times the target has been hit. Then you roll to wound and so on. Since you are not shooting there is no need for bs I beleve.

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Mortis_Infernale
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PostSubject: Re: bladevanes on reavers   Fri Nov 18 2011, 18:39

Correct, those are considered auto-hits so go straight to wounding
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Archon Mephitic
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PostSubject: Re: bladevanes on reavers   Fri Nov 18 2011, 19:07

Do you have to roll 1 D3 per bike or per unit? i've been rolling 1 D3 for the unit and multiplying that by the amount of Bladevanes.
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Mortis_Infernale
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PostSubject: Re: bladevanes on reavers   Fri Nov 18 2011, 19:18

It says "the unit inflicts D3 S4 AP- hits per reaver" so I am rolling for all of them separately
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PostSubject: Re: bladevanes on reavers   Fri Nov 18 2011, 20:54

I'm not sure if that is correct. For example Lootas have D3 shots, yet You roll for whole unit, not separate Orks. Similar for weapons that have random S (Zzap gun) - roll for whole battery rather than 1 gun.

First one is covered in codex, second in FAQ

So IMHO it's D3 x Reavers in unit
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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: bladevanes on reavers   Fri Nov 18 2011, 21:23

I'll admit I never thought about it much. I'd been doing it per Reaver, not once and then x RJBs.

@Local Ork - what about with Caltrops, would you roll once and then x Number of units with Caltrops, or would you roll for each individually?

I seem to recall the Ork wording being specific that the unit rolls, whereas Bladevanes don't do that.

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Tiri Rana
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PostSubject: Re: bladevanes on reavers   Fri Nov 18 2011, 21:36

The lootas are worded like roll one D3 to determine the units rate of fire, or something in the same line.

The reaver entry says the unit inflicts D3 hits per reaver. I'd interpret that as one D3 per reaver and not one D3 multiplied by the number of reavers, but as non-native speaker I'm not sure, if it this difference as clear, as it would be in german.
The 'each reaver gets its own die' is reinforced, by the wording of caltrops and grav-talons, especially caltrops: "inflichts D6 S6 AP- hits with it's bladevanes", so it is at least implied, that each model rolls seperately.

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Local_Ork
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PostSubject: Re: bladevanes on reavers   Fri Nov 18 2011, 21:52

I see Your point since Lootas entry indeed specify it's "unit" roll. I followed "if this one apply to one unit, then other also should work like that"... However, it appear to be different situation.
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Archon Mephitic
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PostSubject: Re: bladevanes on reavers   Sat Nov 19 2011, 01:38

If I have a unit of 6 Reavers with 2 Cluster Caltrops I would roll 1 D3 and 1 D6 then multiply them accordingly, i.e. D3x4, D6x2.

Personally i think it can be taken either way, but, I prefer it this way because there's less maths. I'm not sure if it makes a difference statistically either, that's more maths though.
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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: bladevanes on reavers   Sat Nov 19 2011, 02:56

@Tiri Rana wrote:
The lootas are worded like roll one D3 to determine the units rate of fire, or something in the same line.

The reaver entry says the unit inflicts D3 hits per reaver. I'd interpret that as one D3 per reaver and not one D3 multiplied by the number of reavers, but as non-native speaker I'm not sure, if it this difference as clear, as it would be in german.
The 'each reaver gets its own die' is reinforced, by the wording of caltrops and grav-talons, especially caltrops: "inflichts D6 S6 AP- hits with it's bladevanes", so it is at least implied, that each model rolls seperately.
I agree with this, and it's good to know my recollection of the wording was correct.
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Oqlanth
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PostSubject: Re: bladevanes on reavers   Sat Jan 28 2012, 00:30

I mostly depends on your style, some players prefers to roll d3 for each model, some prefer 'one dice to rule them all' motto and roll one and multiply it.

But if unit has any grav-talons, it is better to roll them seperately to avoid confusion and misunderstanding.
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POwell0
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PostSubject: Re: bladevanes on reavers   Sat Jan 28 2012, 00:34

I always roll D3 for each individual reaver as how the rule is written it sounds to me that each model will inflict its own hits and will vary in how many he causes
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PostSubject: Re: bladevanes on reavers   Sat Jan 28 2012, 14:00

High or low numbers of hits are more likely with the d3*reavers then rolling d3 for each. The average number of hits will be the same, just the frequency of extremes changes. About the same change as just says its 2 hits since that is the average. A army with 30 reavers in a game pressed for time the 2 hits each could save some time if opponent agreed, more reavers would push results toward the average anyway.

The book is worded that its d3 rolled per reaver.

Nothing wrong with house roll to change it locally, won't affect balance. I use to play in high level Dungeon and dragon game that went that route, after the wizard's spells needed more dice then would fit shoe box, and fighter had to use 26 twenty sided dice to attack, the game crawled till we went to averages from calculator.
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PostSubject: Re: bladevanes on reavers   Mon May 14 2012, 19:38

Three questions as im new to the DE

firstly can i only use the turbo boost once with my Bikes?
Can i shoot after turbo boosting?
Finally if i BV/caltrop over someone and i land beside a vechile and im carrying eg a heat lance.... can i shoot the vechile with the heat lance or do i have the shoot the squad i cut up flying over?

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: bladevanes on reavers   Mon May 14 2012, 19:53

1. Turboboosting is a special rule, you can do it as often as you like as long as you fulfill the requirements. (see pg. 76 of the core rulebook)

2. No. (see pg. 76, core rulebook.)

3. You can do neither as you can't shoot after using turbo boosters (pg. 76, again)

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Tiri Rana
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PostSubject: Re: bladevanes on reavers   Mon May 14 2012, 19:58

@succorax wrote:
Three questions as im new to the DE

firstly can i only use the turbo boost once with my Bikes?
No, you can use your bike's turbo boosters as often as you want.
@succorax wrote:
Can i shoot after turbo boosting?
No, the BRB is quite clear about that on page 76.
@succorax wrote:
Finally if i BV/caltrop over someone and i land beside a vechile and im carrying eg a heat lance.... can i shoot the vechile with the heat lance or do i have the shoot the squad i cut up flying over?
Since you aren't allowed to shoot, you obviously can't shoot at the vehicle, but if you could, you didn't need to fire at the same target.

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PostSubject: Re: bladevanes on reavers   Mon May 14 2012, 20:47

The way the bladevanes entry reads, I believe it should be one d3 for the entire unit as it says "the UNIT inflicts d3 str4 ap- hits per reaver" whereas cluster caltrops says the "MODEL inflicts d6 s6 ap- hits" (if it said something like "each model in the unit inflict...")

I would argue that you roll all bladevanes on one roll, but caltrops get a seperate die for each.

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PostSubject: Re: bladevanes on reavers   Tue May 15 2012, 00:00

@Ruke wrote:
The way the bladevanes entry reads, I believe it should be one d3 for the entire unit as it says "the UNIT inflicts d3 str4 ap- hits per reaver"

D3 per reaver seems pretty clear regardless of whether it says unit or model.

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PostSubject: Re: bladevanes on reavers   Tue May 15 2012, 02:14

But the fact that they say "unit" before D3 and per reaver after makes it sound like a single roll. It would be just as easy to say "each reaver that passes over the squad inflicts d3 s4 ap- hits", but they didnt.

Also, in a gameplay sense, rolling a single die instead of 7 or 8 dice and adding each one up helps the game flow faster and better.

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PostSubject: Re: bladevanes on reavers   Tue May 15 2012, 08:59

ty for answering my question and i agree with ruke as it does say unit so that will mean the whole squad while the caltrops roll differently.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: bladevanes on reavers   Tue May 15 2012, 09:42

D3 hits per Reaver means each Reaver inflicts D3 hits. It doesn't mean roll 1D3 and multiply by the number of Reavers. I cannot in fact think of any example in the 40K rules that does use that method.

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PostSubject: Re: bladevanes on reavers   Tue May 15 2012, 10:20

@Count Adhemar wrote:
D3 hits per Reaver means each Reaver inflicts D3 hits. It doesn't mean roll 1D3 and multiply by the number of Reavers. I cannot in fact think of any example in the 40K rules that does use that method.
That'd be lootas I suppose (pretty much, at least). But yeah, I agree with you that this is how it should be done with reavers.

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PostSubject: Re: bladevanes on reavers   Tue May 15 2012, 19:53

but it doesnt say "each reaver inflicts D3 hits" it says "the unit inflicts d3 hits"

If it was a math equation, it would look something like this (1*D3)*#reavers.

Point being, in the codex, they speicifically say that the (unit inflicts D3 hits) per reaver. They didn't say (each reaver that passes over the unit inflicts D3 hits), or (each model... inflicts D3 hits). They point out that its the unit, as a whole, that inflicts D3 hits. The per reaver in this instance is wording to describe how to multiply the result of the D3.

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PostSubject: Re: bladevanes on reavers   Tue May 15 2012, 23:26

Though it would be just as easy to parse what is said the other way. (d3*Reaver)+(d3*Reaver)+(d3*Reaver)+(d3*Reaver)=Unit bladevane attacks. I get a d3 per Reaver - says so in the rules.

Both interpretations are supported, I don't see it as perfectly clear cut (frankly, I read it as d3 per individual Reaver - though see the argument for the other way).

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