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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: DE codex Faq   Mon Apr 16 2018, 23:25

My ears are on fire.

The FAQs are a mixed bag. One the positive end I am pleased that GW has continued their time honored tradition of kneecapping the Ynnari with every single rules update. The rule of 3 also disproportionately hurts just about every single other army more than it hurts us, and Dark Reapers will never see the light of day again. Last but not least other Eldar units got shanked right in the points, notably Warlocks and Spiritseers.

In the middle ground, running all 1 subfaction will be more difficult now and the 3 patrol detachment got even less appealing, not that I frankly care that much.

On the low end, the battalion went up by 2 points but the brigade went up only 3, meaning that the gap between running 2 battalions and 1 brigade narrowed, essentially making the brigade more and more pointless to run.

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mynamelegend
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PostSubject: Re: DE codex Faq   Mon Apr 16 2018, 23:29

We're nerfed, sure.

But compared to many other armies we got through this pretty darn well. I imagine that Tyranids and Chaos are bleeding out their eyeballs right now, while we can largely keep on trucking with the same lists we used to field (unless you were doing two kabal battalions, granted).

I'll take "slightly nerfed Screaming Jets" and "maybe bring something aside Kabal" in return for not having to go full paranoia to defend myself from first turn deepstrike witchtime multiassaults. And not having to worry about facing down nine Hive Tyrants hiding behind fifteen deepstruck units of mycetic spores.
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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: DE codex Faq   Mon Apr 16 2018, 23:31

@mynamelegend wrote:
We're nerfed, sure.

But compared to many other armies we got through this pretty darn well. I imagine that Tyranids and Chaos are bleeding out their eyeballs right now, while we can largely keep on trucking with the same lists we used to field (unless you were doing two kabal battalions, granted).

I'll take "slightly nerfed Screaming Jets" and "maybe bring something aside Kabal" in return for not having to go full paranoia to defend myself from first turn deepstrike witchtime multiassaults. And not having to worry about facing down nine Hive Tyrants hiding behind fifteen deepstruck units of mycetic spores.

Yes, this. I'm having trouble seeing this FAQ as a bad thing for us as a whole.

Plus it actually makes Red Grief much scarier, as they're one of the few factions that can still easily pull off a first turn charge.
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TheBaconPope
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PostSubject: Re: DE codex Faq   Mon Apr 16 2018, 23:31

This also brings up an interesting shift in meta. Without having to worry about T1 Deepstrikers, do you think we'll see a decrease in bubble wrapping flanks?

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Kantalla
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PostSubject: Re: DE codex Faq   Mon Apr 16 2018, 23:32

Count - while true about the Spearhead, would you rather have to take Razorwings after your three Ravager spots are full and face limits on Flyrants and Tau Commanders, or take away the limitations altogether?

It is messy with the subfaction split for sure, but I don't see it being a major impediment.

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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: DE codex Faq   Mon Apr 16 2018, 23:32

Before we all get ourselves worked up in a fit over the changes, can we please keep in mind that the 3 duplicate choices restriction and the deep strike restrictions are BETA RULES. They are not in effect yet, and my group for one is unlikely to start using them.

Honestly all that really bothers me is the CP change for battalion, I've enjoyed my two games using raiding force but now the extra cp I get from raiding force turns into one less than battalion, will have to change my list because of that.

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AzraeI
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PostSubject: Re: DE codex Faq   Mon Apr 16 2018, 23:32

@TheBaconPope wrote:
This also brings up an interesting shift in meta. Without having to worry about T1 Deepstrikers, do you think we'll see a decrease in bubble wrapping flanks?

eh you still get drowned in deepstrikers turn 2
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Gherma
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PostSubject: Re: DE codex Faq   Mon Apr 16 2018, 23:39

@Kantalla wrote:
I'm mostly feeling not too badly impacted by the changes. There are some things that restrict my plans a little, but probably do more to save me from meeting more nasty things in return than impact me.

@Mppqlmd wrote:
- You're limited in the occurence of the same datasheet entry you take in an army. Max 3 scourge units. Max 3 ravagers. Max 3 Medusae. This is non-sense.
Max three Mandrakes makes me a little sad, but three Scourges is OK. Three Ravagers means bring Razorwing Jetfighters once you hit three. I don't own many Court models, but this just means taking a mixed Court rather than just one type.

Most things we want to spam are Troops / Transports anyway, so less Flyrant or Dark Reaper spam seems an acceptable price to pay.

Quote :
- There is no reason to play Raider Party anymore, as it doesn't stand up to the amount of CP the battalion/briguade give anymore (so it's a downgrade, and we are forced to play battalions).

True, but it was always a trap option. I saw it as a fluffy way to fit all subfactions into an army, and optimised for fun games anyway.

Quote :
- Since we are forced to play battalions, it's gonna be almost impossible to play more than 2-3 obsessions per game, so our great advantage is gone.
That was already enforced by detachment limits.

Quote :
- Deepstriking vehicles via screaming jets has become almost useless due to the restriction on T1 Deepstriking
Still viable for protecting Ravagers from alpha strike, but yeah a bit of a nerf there.

However, this helps balance up the game better, so that reserve heavy armies have to have at least a turn without everything on the board, and stops 90% of the power of an army coming in from deep strike, which I think is tactically more interesting.

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- Since "Alliance of Agony" only works if your Warlord is an Archon, you can only have 1 WL Succubus + 1 WL trait Haemy per game.
Probably intended already.

Quote :
- The aeldari keyword has become useless
Pretty much happened for me when the obsessions arrived. Not too worried about that.

I agree 100%

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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: DE codex Faq   Mon Apr 16 2018, 23:39

@Kantalla wrote:
Count - while true about the Spearhead, would you rather have to take Razorwings after your three Ravager spots are full and face limits on Flyrants and Tau Commanders, or take away the limitations altogether?

Or, you know, you could just apply changes/limitations to problem units - rather than applying them universally.

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PFI
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PostSubject: Re: DE codex Faq   Mon Apr 16 2018, 23:40

Less enthused about mandrakes and scourges. Still protected from the enemy but yikes.

Does anyone know if the tactical reserves and the power levels caveat applies to matched play? I assume it does, just annoying to keep track of
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: DE codex Faq   Mon Apr 16 2018, 23:42

Yeah, i was playing with 10 Mandrakes, but IDK if i want to now. Knowing they wont DS on me turn 1 means i can put more on the table and keep it safe.

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Korazell
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PostSubject: Re: DE codex Faq   Mon Apr 16 2018, 23:50

Man, I keep picking up pennies off the floor. And they are all in pairs, fancy that!

Joking aside, I'm in a love hate relationship. But that relationship can be fixed with taking a Outrider detachment of my HQ in a venom with reavers and aligning it to red grief. I'm having a much stronger issue with, well, not being able to play coven and cult in a really point efficient manner...but I'm sure that's a planning issue than a rules one.

Yes, I do think CP are unbalanced. Yes I don't like how the rule of 3 punishes smaller factions. Yes I think screaming jets is pretty bad. Buuuuuuttttt....not getting turn one and having someone drop 75% of their force into a position to use metla/plasma/whatever the hell before you even get to move is pretty priceless. I think screaming Jet should bypass the rule for turn 2 deployment, but, that's just my shtick. Ain't no one gonna be screaming in fright from a Raider.

I'm more happy about all the other nerfs and forcing people to use other models. Soooo...I'll take my personal amount of pain to enjoy a greater degree of pain from others, as is the wych way.

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withershadow
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PostSubject: Re: DE codex Faq   Mon Apr 16 2018, 23:51

@Lord Asvaldir wrote:
Before we all get ourselves worked up in a fit over the changes, can we please keep in mind that the 3 duplicate choices restriction and the deep strike restrictions are BETA RULES. They are not in effect yet, and my group for one is unlikely to start using them.

Honestly all that really bothers me is the CP change for battalion, I've enjoyed my two games using raiding force but now the extra cp I get from raiding force turns into one less than battalion, will have to change my list because of that.
They are not beta rules, they are under organized play. So you can argue that tournament rules don’t apply to regular matched play, but for all practical purposes that’s how I expect it will go.

Maybe we should be able to take units of Ravagers.
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Kantalla
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PostSubject: Re: DE codex Faq   Mon Apr 16 2018, 23:51

I found I usually waited until turn two to land Mandrakes to improve their charge odds and open up more tasty targets. Not always, but more games than a full turn one arrival. It does reduce their value a little though.

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Gherma
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PostSubject: Re: DE codex Faq   Tue Apr 17 2018, 00:01

It’s not strictly related to dark eldar, but I would like to highlight that Corsairs have now access to Venoms and Falcons... it’s a real pity that due to the new battle brother rule they simply cannot be used in matched play anymore XD

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withershadow
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PostSubject: Re: DE codex Faq   Tue Apr 17 2018, 00:08

@Gherma wrote:
It’s not strictly related to dark eldar, but I would like to highlight that Corsairs have now access to Venoms and Falcons... it’s a real pity that due to the new battle brother rule they simply cannot be used in matched play anymore XD
The FAQs have answered a bunch of questions that could have been answered by reading the rules. Now we have a bunch of misinformation that could be resolved by reading the FAQ.

Yes you can use Corsairs or Craftworld units in your army, they just must be in their own detachment.
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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: DE codex Faq   Tue Apr 17 2018, 00:13

@withershadow wrote:
@Gherma wrote:
It’s not strictly related to dark eldar, but I would like to highlight that Corsairs have now access to Venoms and Falcons... it’s a real pity that due to the new battle brother rule they simply cannot be used in matched play anymore XD
The FAQs have answered a bunch of questions that could have been answered by reading the rules. Now we have a bunch of misinformation that could be resolved by reading the FAQ.

Yes you can use Corsairs or Craftworld units in your army, they just must be in their own detachment.

Corsairs don't have any HQ choices. That doesn't make them impossible to use, but the only way to run them is to have an auxiliary support detachment (and lose a Command Point) for each Corsair unit.

Pretty expensive price to pay.
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Malakree
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PostSubject: Re: DE codex Faq   Tue Apr 17 2018, 00:14

As a serious question, if I've cooked up a silly list that I want comments on from more experienced players where would I put that?

Been building on the idea of an Obsidian Rose Brigade using 9 kabalites (3 trueborn) in venoms to just troll all over the board. The 18" shredders and 24" Blasters just seems dirty to me.

Add in 3 triple disintegrator cannon ravagers for the lulz.

EDIT:
Quote :
Corsairs don't have any HQ choices. That doesn't make them impossible to use, but the only way to run them is to have an auxiliary support detachment (and lose a Command Point) for each Corsair unit.

Pretty expensive price to pay.
Actually they mentioned this one in the livestream, you can run the detachment without taking the HQ choice.
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PostSubject: Re: DE codex Faq   Tue Apr 17 2018, 00:18

Same for Sisters of Silence and Assassins. Only thing I haven’t found addressed yet are Inquisitors.
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Gherma
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PostSubject: Re: DE codex Faq   Tue Apr 17 2018, 00:22

@withershadow wrote:
@Gherma wrote:
It’s not strictly related to dark eldar, but I would like to highlight that Corsairs have now access to Venoms and Falcons... it’s a real pity that due to the new battle brother rule they simply cannot be used in matched play anymore XD
The FAQs have answered a bunch of questions that could have been answered by reading the rules. Now we have a bunch of misinformation that could be resolved by reading the FAQ.

Yes you can use Corsairs or Craftworld units in your army, they just must be in their own detachment.

There are no Corsair HQ, so they cannot have their detachment.

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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: DE codex Faq   Tue Apr 17 2018, 00:25

@withershadow wrote:
Same for Sisters of Silence and Assassins.

These (as well as the Legion of the Damned) are listed in the FAQs as exceptions that can be taken in a Vanguard detachment without HQs, Corsairs aren't.
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PostSubject: Re: DE codex Faq   Tue Apr 17 2018, 00:32

@Burnage wrote:
@withershadow wrote:
Same for Sisters of Silence and Assassins.

These (as well as the Legion of the Damned) are listed in the FAQs as exceptions that can be taken in a Vanguard detachment without HQs, Corsairs aren't.

Exactly. It seems after all Withershadow is part of the illiterates of the forum Wink

You can still play them as Yinnari I suppose...

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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: DE codex Faq   Tue Apr 17 2018, 00:35

@Gherma wrote:
@Burnage wrote:
@withershadow wrote:
Same for Sisters of Silence and Assassins.

These (as well as the Legion of the Damned) are listed in the FAQs as exceptions that can be taken in a Vanguard detachment without HQs, Corsairs aren't.

Exactly. It seems after all Withershadow is part of the illiterates of the forum Wink

You can still play them as Yinnari I suppose...

Nope, because Ynnari need to be taken in a Craftworld, Drukhari or Harlequin detachment now.

Corsairs got screwed pretty hard by this FAQ.
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RedRegicide
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PostSubject: Re: DE codex Faq   Tue Apr 17 2018, 00:35

Man I'm kinda glad I can't bring more ravagers, forces me to use a varied list. Was about to spam 5 at the end of the month partner tourny.

Also screaming jets is still good, it was better used for blocking beta strikes, then landing next to your archon for re rolls. and we have more CP so it isnt so costly to reserve 3 rav.


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Gherma
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PostSubject: Re: DE codex Faq   Tue Apr 17 2018, 00:38

@Burnage wrote:
@Gherma wrote:
@Burnage wrote:
@withershadow wrote:
Same for Sisters of Silence and Assassins.

These (as well as the Legion of the Damned) are listed in the FAQs as exceptions that can be taken in a Vanguard detachment without HQs, Corsairs aren't.

Exactly. It seems after all Withershadow is part of the illiterates of the forum Wink

You can still play them as Yinnari I suppose...

Nope, because Ynnari need to be taken in a Craftworld, Drukhari or Harlequin detachment now.

Corsairs got screwed pretty hard by this FAQ.

Hahahaha, ridiculous... Anyway the truth is that with Kabalites at 6 points there is absolutely no reason to have corsairs... so not such a big loss.

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