HomeDark Eldar WikiDark Eldar ResourcesNull CityFAQUsergroupsRegisterLog in

Share | 
 

 The unmentioned problem in the new codex

Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
AuthorMessage
FuelDrop
Hekatrix
avatar

Posts : 1392
Join date : 2015-06-21

PostSubject: Re: The unmentioned problem in the new codex   Sun Apr 15 2018, 22:59

I mean we STILL don't have a lord of war, and there is no way we are getting a new model. So making some of our few remaining characters who are supposed to be super badass into lords of war makes perfect sense.
Back to top Go down
Mppqlmd
Incubi
avatar

Posts : 1844
Join date : 2017-07-05

PostSubject: Re: The unmentioned problem in the new codex   Sun Apr 15 2018, 23:07

Don't worry, Yvraine will soon become one ^^

_________________
My Kabal
Back to top Go down
Ikol
Wych
avatar

Posts : 564
Join date : 2017-03-20
Location : Perth

PostSubject: Re: The unmentioned problem in the new codex   Sun Apr 15 2018, 23:15

Blurgh l

_________________
This world exists because of the things we have done, forever branching to the decisions we make and twisting to what we do not.

”Woe to our enemies.  We'll tear them apart regardless.” ~Barrywise
Back to top Go down
Soulless Samurai
Wych
avatar

Posts : 540
Join date : 2018-04-02

PostSubject: Re: The unmentioned problem in the new codex   Sun Apr 15 2018, 23:19

@Leninade wrote:
This book is trash. There's very little in the way of synergizing combos, and not a lot of great methods of delivery for us.

I don't think the book is trash, but I'm also not that impressed with it either.

There's a lot to like, but it really does seem like the design team did the stratagems, warlord traits and obsessions . . . and then just gave up. Because those things are great and flavourful, yet so many of the base units are bland, boring and lacking in any interesting or flavourful abilities. Not to mention wargear. When it comes to stuff that isn't just weapons, Necrons have more (non-artefact) wargear than we do.

As an example, they actually took the time to change the Archon's aura, but just made it the most standard, boring aura possible. And this was done with seemingly no thought to how DE operate. The Archon still has no mobility options, so he's either in a vehicle or footslogging. There's no allowance for his aura working in a transport (so now he's footslogging or not using his aura), and it affects maybe 4 units in the entire codex. Oh, but apparently that's so impressive that it requires bumping his cost up by 10pts.  Neutral

@Leninade wrote:
Take the Tau for instance- the internet is convinced they're terrible, but with a fireblade and a drone fire warriors are now shooting 3 S5 shots at 21" per model. Can you name any scenario we can stack buffs like this?

I don't know what the Tau codex is like overall, but I certainly had no sympathy for Tau players complaining that they could only take one Commander per detachment. Yeah, how tragic. I wish my "fast" Dark Eldar army could 'only' take one fast, flying HQ per detachment. Rolling Eyes

_________________
@TeenageAngst wrote:
Never trust the French.
Back to top Go down
AzraeI
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 270
Join date : 2018-03-04
Location : maybe

PostSubject: Re: The unmentioned problem in the new codex   Sun Apr 15 2018, 23:40

@Mppqlmd wrote:
That's the problem with warhammer 40k. Everybody has, in the fluff, broken units.

- I can use black holes
- I have killer beasts genetically made for war
- I have super beams of destruction that can destroy a planet
- I have super soldiers
- etc, etc

Not everything can be "the ultimate weapon of destruction"... Half the factions in the game SHOULD have a 2++, 10 attacks, S6 weapon of mass destruction. Do we want the game to be a huge fight between all the big munchkins ?

Of course, others have Girlyman/Mortarion/etc, so we could have one.

yes fluff wise marines should be like that, but they arent, but lelith should be significantly better than a marine, even a captain. and as you said some armies have (had) something like this
Primarchs, Failbaddon, Swarmlord, Trazyn/ Imothek, 6thed Transcendent ctan, some big scary unique units that cant be spammed, but why dont we get vect or lelith as something like that (apart from the whole GWs incompetence to produce new models for us)
Back to top Go down
withershadow
Wych
avatar

Posts : 549
Join date : 2018-04-02

PostSubject: Re: The unmentioned problem in the new codex   Mon Apr 16 2018, 16:48

The Eldar Codex was written when the whole studio was snorting glue, it shouldn’t be used as a benchmark for anything.
Back to top Go down
Soulless Samurai
Wych
avatar

Posts : 540
Join date : 2018-04-02

PostSubject: Re: The unmentioned problem in the new codex   Mon Apr 16 2018, 16:53

@withershadow wrote:
The Eldar Codex was written when the whole studio was snorting glue, it shouldn’t be used as a benchmark for anything.

lol!

I know there are the aforementioned issues with heavy tanks outpacing Raiders, but can I ask what else you're thinking of?

Hope this isn't a silly question, but my last experience with Eldar was in 7th (when the studio was sniffing all of the glue Wink ).

_________________
@TeenageAngst wrote:
Never trust the French.
Back to top Go down
Mppqlmd
Incubi
avatar

Posts : 1844
Join date : 2017-07-05

PostSubject: Re: The unmentioned problem in the new codex   Mon Apr 16 2018, 17:29

Alaitoc + rangers + conceal for a whooping total of -3 to hit sounds pretty glue-sniffing to me.

Also works with Alaitoc + conceal + Planes


The simple Alaitoc + conceal makes you immune to ork ranged weaponry.

What do you mean, there are other CW than Alaitoc ? Noone ever played an Alaitoc army in 7th edition, but everyone seems to be fascinated with rangers now !

_________________
My Kabal
Back to top Go down
Soulless Samurai
Wych
avatar

Posts : 540
Join date : 2018-04-02

PostSubject: Re: The unmentioned problem in the new codex   Mon Apr 16 2018, 17:42

Ah. Yeah, that's pretty barmy.

_________________
@TeenageAngst wrote:
Never trust the French.
Back to top Go down
AzraeI
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 270
Join date : 2018-03-04
Location : maybe

PostSubject: Re: The unmentioned problem in the new codex   Mon Apr 16 2018, 20:27

I recently played against alaitoc with my tau, it was great fun, you hit nothing, and the rangers snipe your fireblades and shadowsun, all the while one big suit after another got blown to bits by 10 dark reapers in cover with a farseer Very Happy
Back to top Go down
Selvhan
Hellion


Posts : 81
Join date : 2013-03-09

PostSubject: Re: The unmentioned problem in the new codex   Tue Apr 17 2018, 03:46

What I don't like in this codex is the fact that you can't have Wych cult, Covent or Kabal units in the same detachment. If I play the ultramarine, all the units that have "chapter" get the bonus. Not, one third of the army.


One thing that can change from a person to another is their Meta. I play in a semi-competitive Meta with very experienced players.

Also, when I read that you won by turn 3-4, that's where I usually lose the game. Dark Eldar are very hard to play.

They don't have psycher. So you are denied to buff your army and to protect your army from offensive spells.
They are T3 (except the covent).
They are very limited in term of vehicles : 3 with T5-6 and 4+ armor save with 6 or 10 wounds (not 9 so they lose stats as they take dmg).
Their average armor is 5-6.
They can't summon things (Like spore mine that do mortal wounds).
They are ok in CC but only if they attack 1st.
Their longest weapon range is 36.

So when you ask me if this codex is good, I'd say it's better than the last one, but let's not compare too much to other codex around.


Back to top Go down
Lord Asvaldir
Wych
avatar

Posts : 770
Join date : 2015-12-06
Location : Washington DC

PostSubject: Re: The unmentioned problem in the new codex   Tue Apr 17 2018, 05:12

Very much disagree, I think our codex from a competitive standpoint is soid, honestly probably at a better power tier than we ever were with our 5th or 7th codex.

All your points pretty much add up to the same point- our army has low toughness/saves across the unit rooster (except for coven units). Yeah that's a weakness but that's always been Dark Eldar's thing, did you expect our army to go up to t4 across the board all of a sudden? The low toughness/saves is offset by our offensive power and speed, both of which with the new codex got a substantial boost. Yeah splinter weapons are not the best, but blasters have never been better, we can output a lot of damage for high save multi-wound models.

As for your other points, yeah sucks we don't have psykers but we aren't the only army (and lore wise we can't expect to get them). Can't think of that many armies that can summon actual useful things, summoning daemons is meh this addition. And lastly who cares about 36" range when all our vehicles move pretty fast.

_________________
The Night is Dark and Full of Terrors...
Back to top Go down
Selvhan
Hellion


Posts : 81
Join date : 2013-03-09

PostSubject: Re: The unmentioned problem in the new codex   Tue Apr 17 2018, 05:19

As I said, the thing that bother me the most is the cult, coven Kabal obsession. I like what they did but the fact that if you add reavers to a kabal detachment make everybody in this detachment lose their kabal bonus, is a real pain in the arse..
Back to top Go down
zelatar
Kabalite Warrior
avatar

Posts : 101
Join date : 2018-01-03
Location : Boston

PostSubject: Re: The unmentioned problem in the new codex   Tue Apr 17 2018, 06:26

@Soulless Samurai wrote:
@Mppqlmd wrote:

CW are an elite army, and they have better elites

We are a strange elite-horde army, and we have one of the best basic troop in the game.

That's the thing though - I'm not sure everyone wants us to be a horde army.



While I'm glad for veterans that the codex has made DE more competitive than they've been in a historical sense, I decided to go with DE because the playstyle, lore, and lower model count ($$$) of a glass hammer army all appeal to me.

I'm still interested in exploring their new playstyle, but the high-level shift away from glass hammer and towards hordes has left me feeling a bit cynical. I wouldn't be surprised if GW's finance guys simply identified an opportunity for increased revenue and instructed the dev team to build out the codex with a higher model count in mind.


_________________
Help the covens kitbash by contributing to the Model Dimensions Database.
Back to top Go down
zelatar
Kabalite Warrior
avatar

Posts : 101
Join date : 2018-01-03
Location : Boston

PostSubject: Re: The unmentioned problem in the new codex   Tue Apr 17 2018, 06:46

Also, I haven't read the entire codex yet, but some fluff seems to complement the new horde mechanics. For example, senior kabalites send new recruits in as a meat shield while they remain aboard hovercraft. Does a good job of conveying a hordes feel, at least to me.

What sold me on DE was this one passage from the 7E codex--the chronological log of a Drukhari raid. The invading force flawlessly coordinates a surprise attack, takes down the planet's defenses, and makes off with the rest of the population as slaves. And one DE leader takes the opportunity to betray another, to boot! That passage did a really great job of conveying what a successful glass hammer attack would be like to me.

I'm sure a well-written account of a successful DE horde attack could be cool, but the surgical-strike, fade-like-a-ninja flavor is inherently lost when portions of your army are there to soak up bullets and be left behind as casualties.

Anyway, the reason I mention all this is because I'm curious--for those of you who have read the new codex front to back already, does the fluff give more of a hordes-like impression, now? Or is the fluff largely unchanged?

_________________
Help the covens kitbash by contributing to the Model Dimensions Database.
Back to top Go down
Quauchtemoc
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 253
Join date : 2017-06-19

PostSubject: Re: The unmentioned problem in the new codex   Tue Apr 17 2018, 06:46

@zelatar wrote:
@Soulless Samurai wrote:
@Mppqlmd wrote:

CW are an elite army, and they have better elites

We are a strange elite-horde army, and we have one of the best basic troop in the game.

That's the thing though - I'm not sure everyone wants us to be a horde army.



While I'm glad for veterans that the codex has made DE more competitive than they've been in a historical sense, I decided to go with DE because the playstyle, lore, and lower model count ($$$) of a glass hammer army all appeal to me.

I'm still interested in exploring their new playstyle, but the high-level shift away from glass hammer and towards hordes has left me feeling a bit cynical. I wouldn't be surprised if GW's finance guys simply identified an opportunity for increased revenue and instructed the dev team to build out the codex with a higher model count in mind.


Yeah crazy, like if Games Workshop was a private company all along
Back to top Go down
zelatar
Kabalite Warrior
avatar

Posts : 101
Join date : 2018-01-03
Location : Boston

PostSubject: Re: The unmentioned problem in the new codex   Tue Apr 17 2018, 14:45

@Quauchtemoc wrote:


Yeah crazy, like if Games Workshop was a private company all along


It's not their motivation that is the problem, just their approach. The codex sets the precedent that a single update can impact the fundamental, high-level appeal of an army. This is not insignificant--I just sunk hundreds of dollars and dozens of hours of free time into an army of my preferred playstyle--but now, suddenly, all that time and money is in service of an army whose playstyle I didn't sign up for. I don't mind the codex shaking things up, but I guess I shouldn't have assumed DE would keep their signature playstyle.

My point was more that the playstyle shift feels like the sort of short-sighted design decision that a finance team would dictate, not a design team. GW could easily queue up some expensive new glass-hammer-themed models for phase two of 8th edition, but because they need this quarter's numbers to pop, they had to ensure veteran DE players picked up a raider and a box or two of infantry.


_________________
Help the covens kitbash by contributing to the Model Dimensions Database.
Back to top Go down
Quauchtemoc
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 253
Join date : 2017-06-19

PostSubject: Re: The unmentioned problem in the new codex   Tue Apr 17 2018, 15:09

I'm understand your point but i'm not totally agree. Since the beggining of the V8 GW seems to care more about their game design than before . I understand your point of playstile change but since V Dark eldar as allways been quite cheap compared to craftworld . Its worse npow its true but its not like its a brutal change
Back to top Go down
Mppqlmd
Incubi
avatar

Posts : 1844
Join date : 2017-07-05

PostSubject: Re: The unmentioned problem in the new codex   Tue Apr 17 2018, 15:14

When I started playing, I remember a dark city tactica that said "imagine orkz with bs4. That's dark Eldar".
It was written for 5th edition.

Sent from Topic'it App

_________________
My Kabal
Back to top Go down
Quauchtemoc
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 253
Join date : 2017-06-19

PostSubject: Re: The unmentioned problem in the new codex   Tue Apr 17 2018, 15:17

@Mppqlmd wrote:
When I started playing, I remember a dark city tactica that said "imagine orkz with bs4. That's dark Eldar".
It was written for 5th edition.

Sent from Topic'it App

Thats a bit dishonnest cause we are still very different from ork (faster, easier to kill, lot of invu , all the coven units , everything fly , ect ... )
Back to top Go down
Mppqlmd
Incubi
avatar

Posts : 1844
Join date : 2017-07-05

PostSubject: Re: The unmentioned problem in the new codex   Tue Apr 17 2018, 15:43

No armies are identical, but for me (and i play both orkz and DE), the comparison stands. It's the philosophy behind the army : "Every point spent in defence is a wasted point. The offence is all that matters".

_________________
My Kabal
Back to top Go down
Quauchtemoc
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 253
Join date : 2017-06-19

PostSubject: Re: The unmentioned problem in the new codex   Tue Apr 17 2018, 15:47

Ah yes thats is true, but thats was the spirit of dark eldar since the begining so its fine
Back to top Go down
Mppqlmd
Incubi
avatar

Posts : 1844
Join date : 2017-07-05

PostSubject: Re: The unmentioned problem in the new codex   Tue Apr 17 2018, 15:52

Exactly. In my opinion Dark Eldar are like myself when i play Darkest Dungeon :

- Blocking is for the weak

- Healing is for the weak

- Buying armors is expensive, so it's for the weak

- Buying weapons is okay

- The most important stats are initiative and damage


So you end up (back to 40k) with models that hit like bricks, but are still very cheap because you payed for their weapons, and NOTHING else. So you can spam them, and you end up with an elite-horde army : a horde of things that attack like elites, but die like conscripts.

_________________
My Kabal
Back to top Go down
colinsherlow
Wych
avatar

Posts : 956
Join date : 2011-11-23
Location : Vancouver BC

PostSubject: Re: The unmentioned problem in the new codex   Tue Apr 17 2018, 15:55

People are so salty about this forum (I mean on the dark city in general) about the new Drukhari codex. It is embarrassing

It is such a great, well written codex. The vector dancer thing I get. It is annoying and doesn't make sense for Drukhari not to have it. But I haven't had any real issues putting my flyer where I want it. You just have to have a vague plan on where you want your flyer to go.

_________________
There are two things that I love. Kicking ass and chewing bubble gum... And I'm allllll out of bubble gum!
Back to top Go down
Soulless Samurai
Wych
avatar

Posts : 540
Join date : 2018-04-02

PostSubject: Re: The unmentioned problem in the new codex   Tue Apr 17 2018, 16:16

@colinsherlow wrote:
It is such a great, well written codex.


_________________
@TeenageAngst wrote:
Never trust the French.
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: The unmentioned problem in the new codex   

Back to top Go down
 
The unmentioned problem in the new codex
Back to top 
Page 2 of 3Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
THE DARK CITY :: 

GENERAL DRUKHARI DISCUSSION

 :: Drukhari Discussion
-
Jump to: