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Sarkesian
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PostSubject: Drazhar power combo   Sun Apr 15 2018, 02:11

I’ve been trying to find a way to work Drazhar into a list, and found that if you use the onslaught stratagem that it works with him. Charge in, get 2 rounds of attacks, and any rolls of a 6 is double hits. Now that is 8 attacks or 12 attacks with demiklaives giving you chances to hit with 6’s. He can absolutely mulch infantry units, or even hordes. If they don’t have AP on their attacks, you’ll be sitting fine with that 2+ armor we with we had more of.

I really like him, and I’ll be using him soon.
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Kantalla
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PostSubject: Re: Drazhar power combo   Sun Apr 15 2018, 02:53

I would really like to like Drazhar.

A Vanguard of Drazhar and Incubi would be something I would love to field.

Onslaught really needs to be a 6+ rather than unmodified 6 to me. Being unmodified means if you use on a unit of 10 Incubi it is worth 6 hits at S4 average. On Drazhar your choices are either 1.33 hits at S5 or 2 hits at S4 on average. If it would stack with Drazhar's hit buff and the power from pain hit buff then it would be really respectable.

Drazhar is a bit pricey for what he does, but on looks alone is worth fielding.

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Sarkesian
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PostSubject: Re: Drazhar power combo   Sun Apr 15 2018, 04:34

A bit pricey, yes. But if you have a target that you absolutely want to murder, then Drazhar and 9 Incubi in a raider, or 10 and foot slogging, then this expensive unit will take out damn near anything it comes in contact with. And that sounds pretty fun to me!
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GreyArea
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PostSubject: Re: Drazhar power combo   Sun Apr 15 2018, 07:54

If he was 100 pts or less I'd pick him for that niche. As is at 120, an archon or succubus can kill as well as him for 1/2 to 2/3 his pts cost... Not worth it imo.

I think they may have deliberately overcosted him to set up for a new model and pts reduction to boost sales down the line.

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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Drazhar power combo   Sun Apr 15 2018, 09:49

@Sarkesian wrote:
I’ve been trying to find a way to work Drazhar into a list, and found that if you use the onslaught stratagem that it works with him. Charge in, get 2 rounds of attacks, and any rolls of a 6 is double hits. Now that is 8 attacks or 12 attacks with demiklaives giving you chances to hit with 6’s. He can absolutely mulch infantry units, or even hordes.

I think you're seriously overestimating Drazhar.

A unit of 10 Warriors with 2 Shredders and a Splinter Cannon is 84pts, and will (on average) kill more marines or Orks than Drazhar will - without ever having to leave their Raider.

Drazhar is marginally better against IG (he kills 8, the Warriors kill ~7.Cool, but he costs almost 50% more *and* you had to spend a CP.

You'll forgive me if I don't rush to buy myself a Drazhar model.

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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: Drazhar power combo   Sun Apr 15 2018, 09:56

Drazhar isn't supposed to kill IG or Orks. He's supposed to kill MEQ (he is an Incubi for Vect's sake).

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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: Drazhar power combo   Sun Apr 15 2018, 09:58

I dont get his ability, he gives +1 to hit for Incubi, when PFP already gives it...

And its doesnt stack for those sixes on stratagem.

Only Klaivex somewhat benefiting exloding on 4+ with pfp and drazhar.

P.S. Nope, not even that its to wound roll. Strange rules, no synergy.

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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Drazhar power combo   Sun Apr 15 2018, 10:00

@Mppqlmd wrote:
Drazhar isn't supposed to kill IG or Orks. He's supposed to kill MEQ (he is an Incubi for Vect's sake).

But as I said, he's still no better at that than a squad of basic Kabalites - which cost significantly less and don't need you to spend CPs on them.

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DevilDoll
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PostSubject: Re: Drazhar power combo   Sun Apr 15 2018, 10:28

a strife succubus with triptich whip and attack drug does 9 attacks with 6s (and 5s after 3rd round) counting for 3 hits instead of the 2 from onlsaught and without needing to use the cp for the stratagem, rerolling 1s and costing less than half of drazhar...
As others stated he should cost no more than 100 to be worth it
That doesnt mean he is the worst named character in the game as before just that he is not that good
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: Drazhar power combo   Sun Apr 15 2018, 10:35

She's also taking a relic and a WL trait.

Drazhar isn't good, but he's playable. If people like him, they can play him.


BTW, i think Drazhar is designed for Ynnari, to get your Incubi to 2+ without PfP.

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DevilDoll
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PostSubject: Re: Drazhar power combo   Sun Apr 15 2018, 11:15

@Mppqlmd wrote:
She's also taking a relic and a WL trait.

Drazhar isn't good, but he's playable. If people like him, they can play him.


BTW, i think Drazhar is designed for Ynnari, to get your Incubi to 2+ without PfP.

of course they can this is the beauty of the game you can play whatever you want if you are happy with it...!
btw isnt there a rule that you cannot take drazhar and Urien in Ynnari or am i imagining things now?
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Sarkesian
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PostSubject: Re: Drazhar power combo   Sun Apr 15 2018, 15:16

Glad to see the thread about Drazhar has been derailed.

His +1 to hit aura does have its uses. Playing against other DE you could face Archons with the Armor of Misery, or Mandrakes that have a -1 to hit. I’m sure there are other units that also have a -1 to hit that don’t have invuln saves in other armies. Getting that guaranteed 2+ to hit is pretty nice.

Yes there are cheaper options. I don’t play in tournaments, so building a list with Drazhar sounds like a lot of fun to me. I’d even pay the 3 cp to webway in him and 10 incubi and then charge in. Is it the most competitive? No. But it will be fun, and that’s what matters to me when I play.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Drazhar power combo   Mon Apr 16 2018, 11:23

I've now had a chance to go through this thread after it was reported. Seems like a prime example of how not to debate on the internet (or in real life for that matter). The thread went wildly off-topic, and there were numerous comments that were disrespectful or outright rude. I'm going to delete pretty much everything that was extraneous to the original topic when I get a chance and then re-open to allow the discussion ON THAT TOPIC to continue.

Can we please take this opportunity to review the forum rules and stick to them.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Drazhar power combo   Mon Apr 16 2018, 13:53

Thread re-opened

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N3ver mercy
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PostSubject: Re: Drazhar power combo   Mon Apr 16 2018, 15:59

I saw a very nice play using Drazhar and another archon with three sslyths in a venom over the weekend,

First turn he hid the venom in his deployment zone and didnt move or shoot, so that it was promptly forgotten about, he advanced it into cover turn two, and on turn three was able to get out and charge them all into a 5 wound guilliman and kill him.

The best part was he failed the 4+ roll for guilliman to get back up, and the look on his face as Agents of Vect was used to stop him rerolling it

If you play smart with him I'm sure you could make him work well?

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RedRegicide
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PostSubject: Re: Drazhar power combo   Mon Apr 16 2018, 16:15

That sounds awesome!

If you are SET on making him work for casual games, I think you should try and attack with him and his buddies T1 or 2 so his aura gives you something. And since incubi don’t get special weapons you should def field the in a raider.

Great distraction fex, could aethersail it and charge it using grief raider. T2 get out and eat some people

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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: Drazhar power combo   Mon Apr 16 2018, 16:23

Quote :
Great distraction fex, could aethersail it and charge it using grief raider. T2 get out and eat some people

As always, if the raider is surrounded and destroyed, you lose almost Drazhar + 9 incubi + 1 raider. That's almost 400pts.


You can simply Aethersails turn 1, and try a turn 2 charge.

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Barrywise
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PostSubject: Re: Drazhar power combo   Tue Apr 17 2018, 06:14

Would you try to get Drazhar to lead the way with his 2+ armor save or would it be better to have meat shields in front of him? And which meatshields would you use? Vehicles, Coven, Reavers? I guess it'd depend a lot on what you have and what's in your list, but still, dude hits armor like a truck and keeps coming back.

'Aight, this second part of this post is a bit of a stretch and relies on how funky Charges are this edition, as well as the wording of Drazhar's "Murderous Assault" rule works.

First off, it says "If Drazhar charges in the charge phase, he can fight an additional time in the next fight phase."

My question is, do I have to activate him the second time immediately? or can I let another squad finish off the fight, let him consolidate (does a unit that didn't finish the melee still consolidate?) and then activate him a second time to fight again?

Now assuming you have a unit or two of bros running with the 'ol Razzy Drazzy, can you, lets say, let Drazzy multi charge two units and tie up one as he absorbs overwatch, let another Incubi squad also charge in, Drazzy goes, kills some, Incubi finishes them off, Drazzy consolidates, (Piles-in?) and does some nasty damage to the second squad (Since he multi-charged?)

Also, we should probably run some math for how he does as Warlord, with the ability to reroll to-wounds, which mode is best against T4 targets, I've got a suspicion it might be the Dual blades.

Also, Also, which stratagems can be used on him, Cruel Deception for falling back and still charging is a big one. You can also stack Hunt from the shadows (+1 to cover save bonus) and Lightning-fast reactions (-1 to hit). Naturally "Onslaught" is fantastic on him as well. Sadly it's unmodified 6, otherwise Drazzy would become a beast stick to end all beaststicks, double hits on a 4+. Yowza. I wish...

Sadly as well, he's a named character so he probably cant be given any artefacts like Helm of Spite.

*EDIT* Math is as follows: S5 vs. T4, is a 3+ to wound or 66%, rerolling a 66% or 2/3 of 33% ends with 0.88 repeating chance of wounding. compared to S4 vs. T4, or 50% + 50% of 50% = 75% chance to wound so...

Single Blade: 4 A's * (5/6) * (0.88) * (5/6) = approx. 2.5 dead marines (2.47 actual value)

Dual Blades: 6 A's * (5/6) * (0.75) * (2/3) = 2.5 straight up

Single Blade edges out slightly 2.05 vs. 1.85 against T5, 3+ Armor opponents.

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LordSplata
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PostSubject: Re: Drazhar power combo   Yesterday at 08:51

All of what you said is possible except for the order of consolidation, which I just want to correct b cause it seems a lot of ppl get it wrong.

Consolidate in this edition happens as soon as you finish your attacks in the fight phase, before the next player chooses their unit to attack with, and always happens, not just when a unit is wiped out.
This isn't the way it used to be in other editions, and that has tricked up a lot of people.
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Kantalla
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PostSubject: Re: Drazhar power combo   Yesterday at 09:09

Also, Drazhar doesn't need to wipe an enemy to attack twice. He can charge in resolve the fight phase (pile in, fight, consolidate) then immediately do the fight phase again against the same enemy.

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Dark Elf Dave
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PostSubject: Re: Drazhar power combo   Yesterday at 09:21

I guess if Drazhar multi charges then you can always select which ever unit you wish to attack the 2nd time...so you can multi charge two units attack one and then with his ability to fight again attack the other regardless of whether one was or wasn't wiped out.

It is a cool idea...an interesting way to perhaps attack a character.  He can charge the bubble and kill them and then try and kill a character.  It is all very dependent on the positioning though.

If he could consolidate/pile in before he attacks again...then that would be super interesting.
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LordSplata
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PostSubject: Re: Drazhar power combo   Yesterday at 09:33

Except... he is a terrible character killer.
The klavex is a better character killer. Go figure about that one.
Sorry, salty.

But yeah, great way of clearing screens

Edit:
He piles.
Fights.
Consolidates.
You select him to fight for a second time.
Piles
Fights.
Consolidates.
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Dark Elf Dave
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PostSubject: Re: Drazhar power combo   Yesterday at 09:36

I wouldn't consider him the best at taking out a character no...but against T3 characters he should do OK.

I wouldn't send him up against a Demon Prince for example Crying or Very sad
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Barrywise
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PostSubject: Re: Drazhar power combo   Yesterday at 17:50

Ah! Thanks for clearing that up LordSplata and Kantalla. But what you are telling me is that Drazhar can be within 1" for combat and potentially, depending on how the enemy unit is spread out...
- lets say 0.9" away when he finishes his charge.
-"pile in" move of 3" but has to get closer, (0.8")
-fights and potentially clears out the "closest enemy model"
-consolidates another 3" albeit closer to the nearest enemy model (0.9")
-"Pile in" movement of another 3" (0.8")
-Fights again, potentially clearing closest enemy model again
-Consolidates yet another 3"

You as the controller of Drazhar would obviously have to dance him around a fair bit, but you catch my drift. He can still swing and sway his way through combat like he used to, in fact, just about any double attacking unit can now too...

I don't think it'll be that useful for getting at characters, but at least its a way to minimize your opponent's return attacks.

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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: Drazhar power combo   Yesterday at 19:33

@LordSplata wrote:
Except... he is a terrible character killer.
The klavex is a better character killer. Go figure about that one.
Sorry, salty.

But yeah, great way of clearing screens

Edit:
He piles.
Fights.
Consolidates.
You select him to fight for a second time.
Piles
Fights.
Consolidates.

IF he clean up all the screen with the first go.

I don't really like him. A Succubs of the Strife/RedGrief, a FlayedSkull Archon or Lelith herself are all way better than him :-/
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