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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Talos opinion   Thu Apr 12 2018, 20:13

@AzraeI wrote:
i still dont understand why they are only T6, carnifexes are T7, and most other bigbugs are T8 (except HT and Trygon et. al.)

Most likely b.c they can get 4++ and PFP chart, GW is always scared to make DE to strong.

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PostSubject: Re: Talos opinion   Thu Apr 12 2018, 20:44

Carnifexes have got a lot going for them for a cheaper price tag, but are still seen as a weak pick. Here's hoping there's some synergy I haven't worked out yet, because it would be a shame to shelve the models for the edition
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PostSubject: Re: Talos opinion   Thu Apr 12 2018, 20:47

@amishprn86 wrote:
@AzraeI wrote:
i still dont understand why they are only T6, carnifexes are T7, and most other bigbugs are T8 (except HT and Trygon et. al.)

Most likely b.c they can get 4++ and PFP chart, GW is always scared to make DE to strong.

yes but they had the T6 in the index as well, granted the design team works 3 years in advance (mmmmmmmmsure)
ah yes GW, understanding the fine subtleties between bad and op like no other company
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Talos opinion   Thu Apr 12 2018, 20:52

@Leninade wrote:
Carnifexes have got a lot going for them for a cheaper price tag, but are still seen as a weak pick. Here's hoping there's some synergy I haven't worked out yet, because it would be a shame to shelve the models for the edition

@AzraeI wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
@AzraeI wrote:
i still dont understand why they are only T6, carnifexes are T7, and most other bigbugs are T8 (except HT and Trygon et. al.)

Most likely b.c they can get 4++ and PFP chart, GW is always scared to make DE to strong.

yes but they had the T6 in the index as well, granted the design team works 3 years in advance (mmmmmmmmsure)
ah yes GW, understanding the fine subtleties between bad and op like no other company

T7 doesnt do much tho IMO, against 2 main SM guns it does, Plasma and Assault Cannons, most spamed guns are S4 or S5 and then jumps to S8.

Carnifex's are also Base WS/BS 4+ and needs to be bought 1 or the other to a 3+. The Talos are always 3+ WS at least and will go up to a 2+

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PostSubject: Re: Talos opinion   Thu Apr 12 2018, 20:54

CRAP! I forgot when doing the math that Talos are 4+ to shoot.......

Stinger Pods vs GEQ = 1.56 dead
HWB vs GEQ = 1.11 Dead
Splinter Cannon vs GEQ = Max Range: 1.00, Rapid Range: 2.00


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PostSubject: Re: Talos opinion   Thu Apr 12 2018, 20:55

@amishprn86 wrote:

T7 doesnt do much tho IMO, against 2 main SM guns it does, Plasma and Assault Cannons, most spamed guns are S4 or S5 and then jumps to S8.

But if it was T7 base, a Haemonculus could then buff it to T8.

Thus making the buff a lot more meaningful.

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Talos opinion   Thu Apr 12 2018, 21:04

@Soulless Samurai wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:

T7 doesnt do much tho IMO, against 2 main SM guns it does, Plasma and Assault Cannons, most spamed guns are S4 or S5 and then jumps to S8.

But if it was T7 base, a Haemonculus could then buff it to T8.

Thus making the buff a lot more meaningful.

AH... yeah GW didnt want that lol. That would be very strong, a T8 MC unit with 4++, FnP and can move +7" turn 1 while able to DS? Yeah lol.

I think now thats asking for to much IMO.

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PostSubject: Re: Talos opinion   Thu Apr 12 2018, 21:08

@amishprn86 wrote:

AH... yeah GW didnt want that lol. That would be very strong, a T8 MC unit with 4++, FnP and can move +7" turn 1 while able to DS? Yeah lol.

I think now thats asking for to much IMO.

It's asking too much for a durable monster to actually be durable? Neutral

Also, how are you deep striking it?

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AzraeI
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PostSubject: Re: Talos opinion   Thu Apr 12 2018, 21:12

true it is very durable against lascannons but a big bug takes twice as many autocannon shots as two talos to take it down
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PostSubject: Re: Talos opinion   Thu Apr 12 2018, 22:17

@Soulless Samurai wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:

AH... yeah GW didnt want that lol. That would be very strong, a T8 MC unit with 4++, FnP and can move +7" turn 1 while able to DS? Yeah lol.

I think now thats asking for to much IMO.

It's asking too much for a durable monster to actually be durable? Neutral

Also, how are you deep striking it?

I forgot "NEW" WWP wont let MC's DS Sad i really miss old wwp's

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PostSubject: Re: Talos opinion   Thu Apr 12 2018, 22:25

@amishprn86 wrote:
I forgot "NEW" WWP wont let MC's DS    Sad     i really miss old wwp's

Same.

Amongst other things, it's especially annoying that you can't deep strike a character for free with a squad (and character have no other way of deep striking).

I do so miss the Dark Artisan.

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PostSubject: Re: Talos opinion   Fri Apr 13 2018, 01:40

This is where we miss the Scourge wings option for our characters. Would be handy to drop in the buffs.

Haemonculus or Succubus with wings doesn't quite feel right though.

I was hoping when I saw the Esoteric Kill Delivered from Afar preview that Talos units would get the ability to WWP in, but alas that hasn't happened.

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PostSubject: Re: Talos opinion   Fri Apr 13 2018, 06:56

Deep strike a tantalus or reaper? Esoteric kill, delivered from suprisingly near.

Talos are T6 for the same reason we have so few multi-damage options, and mostly “on a 6 stuff happens” rules. They are T6 because they can be buffed to T7, which is also a lame-ass mechanic, but there it is.

I like what I’m reading, though. Concentration of power in a unit of multiple Talos monstrosities for stratagems seems smart. Also a lot easier to get a buff on them like the Cronos, since only one model has to be in range.


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PostSubject: Re: Talos opinion   Fri Apr 13 2018, 06:59

Double post
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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: Talos opinion   Fri Apr 13 2018, 07:09

Yup grouping up talos in a unit to maximize stratagems/auras is the way I'm thinking they should be used for lists with a heavy coven presence. I wouldn't want to spend 2 cps to give a single talos reroll to wound rolls, but 3 talos? Now that's at least 15 attacks with macro-scalpels, rerolling wounds against a particularly tough target is going to make a big difference. Using fire&fade to get that unit close into assault range also works a lot better.

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PostSubject: Re: Talos opinion   Fri Apr 13 2018, 07:39

Fire and Fade, Torturer’s Craft, and Architects of Pain I can see being of great help.

Only potential problem is getting support models in range of them. They will be at T6 with no haemonculus aura. The Talos will cover 8” more, but has a >2” base, so a Haemonculus starting roughly on the same line can still keep the unit in range. Same for the Cronos. It does get more tenuous if you advance.
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PostSubject: Re: Talos opinion   Fri Apr 13 2018, 08:10

Don't forget fleshcraft for healing
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PostSubject: Re: Talos opinion   Fri Apr 13 2018, 08:53

That’s only per model IIRC.
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LordSplata
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PostSubject: Re: Talos opinion   Fri Apr 13 2018, 12:04

@Lord Asvaldir wrote:
Yup grouping up talos in a unit to maximize stratagems/auras is the way I'm thinking they should be used for lists with a heavy coven presence. I wouldn't want to spend 2 cps to give a single talos reroll to wound rolls, but 3 talos? Now that's at least 15 attacks with macro-scalpels, rerolling wounds against a particularly tough target is going to make a big difference. Using fire&fade to get that unit close into assault range also works a lot better.

I hadn't read the re-roll wounds strat. That really helps to lift their damage potential against some targets. However it probably will never be that high.

That said, they really pose a threat to armor and infantry alike if they are outfitted with hte Haywire blasters. Being able to move and shoot heavy targets (albeit, poorly), really lets them threaten all sorts of targets all the time, and stops them just getting ignored like CC carnifexes.

I notice the Ichor injector getting a lot of hate, and I've got to say, then this hate is reasonably unfounded as its points are pretty well balanced, as 4 Macro and 1 Ichor does more damage than 6 Macro's to MEQ, by about 7% while it does less damage to GEQ and multi wound targets.

If single wound targets are your main aim though, then look do further than the chain flails, and a Ichor injector. This combo just minces stuff!
Add the -1 AP obsession and you are doing an extra 25% damage to GEQ and MEQ targets.

Turn one, you are killing 5.5 GEQ with chain flails and an Ichor Injector with the extra -1AP and that only goes up on turn 3 to 6.8 GEQ per talos!

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Ragnos
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PostSubject: Re: Talos opinion   Fri Apr 13 2018, 13:21

I had a game yesterday. Used talos as a character shield while the characters (who sadly have not yet received their own transport) marched up the field behind him. With 4++ and +1T  they soaked quite a lot of dmg, and haywire blasters worked great against T8 tanks. And I think it was the first time ever they really made it into close combat to kill some enemy HQs.

But it has to be said that I tried to block LOS to the most dangerous enemies (Leman Russ with Battle Cannons) by using "fire and fade" and a squad of reavers and raiders have drawn some fire towards them.

In the end, they are not really that tanky, but if they make it into close combat they are really good against HQs.
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PostSubject: Re: Talos opinion   Fri Apr 13 2018, 13:22

I still like double macro scalpel and either heatlance or haywire over every other setup, since I mostly send them at multi-wound target's/vehicles.

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PostSubject: Re: Talos opinion   Fri Apr 13 2018, 15:37

Where do I get or convert haywire blasters? Mine are equipped with splinter cannons...

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AzraeI
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PostSubject: Re: Talos opinion   Fri Apr 13 2018, 15:43

@CptMetal wrote:
Where do I get or convert haywire blasters? Mine are equipped with splinter cannons...

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i stumbled across a site called shapeways.com, they make/sell 3d printed weapons for nearly every faction, including blasters, shredders and haywire blaster (and more), i havent ordered from them yet so i dont know how the quality is
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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: Talos opinion   Fri Apr 13 2018, 16:39

@withershadow wrote:

Only potential problem is getting support models in range of them. They will be at T6 with no haemonculus aura. The Talos will cover 8” more, but has a >2” base, so a Haemonculus starting roughly on the same line can still keep the unit in range.  Same for the Cronos. It does get more tenuous if you advance.

Yeah that is an issue I hadn't considered. I suppose it comes down to what army you're facing, and if the difference between t6 and 7 matters. If you're up against say autocannons or gauss cannons, yeah the toughness will make a big difference, but if you're opponent's main source of dealing with big multi-wound models is say lascannons, won't matter. Comes down to the game I guess if you want to stay safe in the aura or use fire&fade to advance up the field.

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PostSubject: Re: Talos opinion   Fri Apr 13 2018, 16:45

Well, again you can actually do it reliably if you don’t advance. Just gotta be careful not to get outflanked and have the Haemy sniped. Probably worthwhile to run up flanking squads. Khymerae? Wracks?
@AzraeI wrote:
@CptMetal wrote:
Where do I get or convert haywire blasters? Mine are equipped with splinter cannons...

Sent from Topic'it App

i stumbled across a site called shapeways.com, they make/sell 3d printed weapons for nearly every faction, including blasters, shredders and haywire blaster (and more), i havent ordered from them yet so i dont know how the quality is
If you’re talking about the guy who makes the Evil Elf faction guns, he doesn’t seem to have haywire.
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