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FuelDrop
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Heartbroken   Tue Apr 10 2018, 10:11

So, here's the thing. I tried. There are some nice things in this codex. Wyches are good in close combat for the first time in forever, which is great.

But this isn't the army I want to play. I don't think this is even the game I want to play anymore.

I got into this army back when we had badass custom characters. Back when we had entire sections of arcane wargear, and could kit out our characters to be special snowflakes with an insane pricetag and reality warping weapons that made other armies tremble with fear. Back when power from pain came from actually inflicting pain.

We had the first 'fliers', we had the first real relics, we were innovative. We weren't overpowered, but we did what we were supposed to and we did it well.

Now, all our wargear is gone. Custom HQs are a thing of the past. I'm not talking about one relic and some weapon loadouts, I'm talking about a genuine choice between a shadowfield and a clone field that flat out negates hit, Ghostplate underneath, choice from the majority of our arsenal, and so many wargear options it would make you swoon. And the characters! Taking the right HQ would change how your army was built and played completely!

Gone are our interesting rules. Back when our bikes could do flyby attacks moving flat out at insane speeds, every turn. Back when we had grenades for all. Back when we were the fastest things on the board bar none.

All that is gone now.

This new slower, more generic dark eldar just isn't something I want to get involved in. Our decline has been gradual, but inevitable. What is left is undoubtedly a competent army. There are no real stinkers visible at a glance, we have some of the cheapest bikes and 3+ to hit troops in the game, and I have no doubt it will stack up well. But the soul has been sucked out. The great enemy has won.

Tomorrow I will be taking my army in to the local gaming shop for sale. It's a heartbreaking farewell, but this is not the army I want to play anymore and frankly, I don't think this is the game I want to play anymore.

A fond farewell to you all. Roll dice, and have fun.
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: Heartbroken   Tue Apr 10 2018, 10:17

I understand. If i can say one thing, though : selling things out of disappointment is a very easily regrettable thing.
If you have the room, and don't need the cash, store them somewhere. Then you can let time decide what their fate will be.

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FuelDrop
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PostSubject: Re: Heartbroken   Tue Apr 10 2018, 10:26

@Mppqlmd wrote:
I understand. If i can say one thing, though : selling things out of disappointment is a very easily regrettable thing.
If you have the room, and don't need the cash, store them somewhere. Then you can let time decide what their fate will be.

Maybe, though GW would need to pull a complete reversal in direction for the whole game to make me interested in playing Dark Eldar again. The replacing of wargear with stratagems is something that will require a whole new edition to fix, assuming they don't double down on it.
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: Heartbroken   Tue Apr 10 2018, 11:06

Honestly, that's why i keep my Dark Elves from WHFB. Even though the simplest mention of AOS is enough to make me angry, i still hope someday i will show those models some love again.

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FuelDrop
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PostSubject: Re: Heartbroken   Tue Apr 10 2018, 11:16

@Mppqlmd wrote:
Honestly, that's why i keep my Dark Elves from WHFB. Even though the simplest mention of AOS is enough to make me angry, i still hope someday i will show those models some love again.

(Vampire Counts army waves hello from their shelf)
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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Re: Heartbroken   Tue Apr 10 2018, 11:57

Its a damn shame, but I can't say I blame you. 8th edition is flawed, and you're not the first person I've known who has just backed away entirely.
I have a friend who played most of his life, but back away after the disaster that was Codex: Dark Angels.

All I can say is maybe consider a cooling period, put your army in storage, and think again in a year?
There is an issue right now of a high release rate to get every army book out a year after the launch of 8th, so when we get into the lifespan of the game proper things might level out and change. The tendency of "only what we sell/what is on the sprue" may only be a symptom of the rush to get all the books out so that everyone has a book.

Whatever you decide though, all the best.
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Chippen
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PostSubject: Re: Heartbroken   Tue Apr 10 2018, 13:23

I would definitely not sell if I were you. That's an express ticket to Regretsville.

Also, if you want crazy customization, might another army suit you better? The more elite choices like Deathwatch might fit the bill.

Where are you in the world? If it's reasonable for you to ship to the states and you're dead set on selling, holla atcha boi!

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Gorefather
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PostSubject: Re: Heartbroken   Tue Apr 10 2018, 14:58

So like... how many times are you going to post this? Just curious.
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Calyptra
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PostSubject: Re: Heartbroken   Tue Apr 10 2018, 15:54

@FuelDrop wrote:
@Mppqlmd wrote:
Honestly, that's why i keep my Dark Elves from WHFB. Even though the simplest mention of AOS is enough to make me angry, i still hope someday i will show those models some love again.

(Vampire Counts army waves hello from their shelf)

You've perfectly described my attitude towards Age of Sigmar and my Vampire Counts.

I've put too much into my models to sell them, and lengthy hiatuses from a given game aren't uncommon in this hobby (or from the hobby altogether). So I always suggest boxing everything up, if you have the closet/basement/attic space for it. Years from now the game will different; and maybe you'll want to come back. And there *are* groups out there who continue to play previous editions.

So take a break.

I did not enjoy Age of Sigmar and I badly miss the Old World. But there's always the possibility that it will return, or that I'll find a local Oldhammer group, in which case my Vampire Counts will rise again.

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Archon_91
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PostSubject: Re: Heartbroken   Tue Apr 10 2018, 16:13

Well, its never fun to see a fellow archon leave, especially one that I rarely agreed with, it gave me a different point of view to think on for list building, tactics, and unit validity, hopefully something changes about the game in the next few months or next addition to bring you back and if not, hopefully you find another army/hobby that you can enjoy as much as ya did this one.
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Mikoneo
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PostSubject: Re: Heartbroken   Tue Apr 10 2018, 16:41

As much as I'd love to jump in and try and score those models, I do feel it would be better to wait at least for a while before cashing out. Hopefully after everyone has a codex GW will focus more on expanding the armies again
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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: Heartbroken   Tue Apr 10 2018, 16:52

@FuelDrop wrote:
@Mppqlmd wrote:
Honestly, that's why i keep my Dark Elves from WHFB. Even though the simplest mention of AOS is enough to make me angry, i still hope someday i will show those models some love again.

(Vampire Counts army waves hello from their shelf)

Ahh poor warhammer fantasy battles. However bad things are in 40k, at least they didn't blow up the whole freakin world (literally).

High Elves, Warriors of Chaos and Dwarves all wave hello as well.

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withershadow
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PostSubject: Re: Heartbroken   Tue Apr 10 2018, 17:00

*shrug* these complaints seem tenuous and several editions too late. If you can’t find buyers locally, toss them on bartertown and we can discuss fair value.

Commoragh lives on.
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: Heartbroken   Tue Apr 10 2018, 17:10

Quote :
*shrug* these complaints seem tenuous and several editions too late. If you can’t find buyers locally, toss them on bartertown and we can discuss fair value.

Nop, sorry, 8th edition is a perfectly valid edition to quit the game.

Just because Dark Eldar got a power-up doesn't mean we all have to forget the fact that this edition has seen conscript spam, stormraven spam, birdspam, brimstone spam, Commander Spam...

8th edition is shaping since its beginning like some kind of Hearthstone with a R-P-S meta that changes at every "FAQ" (read "patch"), with games that are decided after the second turn... perfectly valid time to quit the game angrily, really.

I don't, because I've got tons of friends playing it and it is still a silly, casual game, but the fun I found in the game itself (in the rules) is looooong gone.

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AzraeI
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PostSubject: Re: Heartbroken   Tue Apr 10 2018, 18:57

was it 5th or 6th edition were you actually had fun?
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lament.config
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PostSubject: Re: Heartbroken   Tue Apr 10 2018, 19:16

Sucks your disappointed with the game Fueldrop.

For years I played WoW and League so this R-P-S meta seems familiar. 8th has shaken up the game for sure.
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Marrath
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PostSubject: Re: Heartbroken   Tue Apr 10 2018, 20:48

@Mppqlmd wrote:
I understand. If i can say one thing, though : selling things out of disappointment is a very easily regrettable thing.
If you have the room, and don't need the cash, store them somewhere. Then you can let time decide what their fate will be.

^this i totally agree with.

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Barking Agatha
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PostSubject: Re: Heartbroken   Tue Apr 10 2018, 20:51

To each their own. I've played Warhammer 40,000 for seven editions (I even got to play Rogue Trader once, back in the day) and it was always a game that could be frustrating and dispiriting in one way or another, promising on the one hand that you could engage your imagination and send your little characters to fight fantasy wars on your own terms, and on the other hand encouraging min-maxing and punishing you for not playing the 'right' way, making the 'right' lists, or choosing the 'right' army to play with. (Especially 2nd edition, but let's not poke that old wound.)

It seems to my jaded and rheumy eyes that 8th edition has finally got it right. The Drukhari Codex still has a few annoying nitpicks that could easily have been fixed and weren't and yes, that bugs me, but the main thing is that I can play my little crazed sadists my own way and still have a very good chance to win, or at least put the fear of the dark eldar into my opponent, and that's really all I ever wanted.

I'm sorry that you're disappointed, but I'm delighted at this turn of events. If you're not, well, c'est la vie. Smile
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Skulnbonz
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PostSubject: Re: Heartbroken   Tue Apr 10 2018, 21:59

Heartbroken that for the first time in forever, we have a top tier codex?
heartbroken that we no longer need Eldar allies as crutches?
Heartbroken that the synergy of our dex is better and unlike anything that came before?

Guess this is the perfect example of "you can't make everyone happy". If you are selling your models, I will grab them on the cheap.

Quote :


Gone are our interesting rules.
No, no they are not gone. They are renamed "stratagems" rather than rules. Hellion or jetbike flyovers, the torment grenade to name a few on top of things we NEVER had before, like awesome psychic defense that causes perils, healing of our coven monsters, returning wracks at full strength etc..
Quote :



This new slower, more generic dark eldar just isn't something I want to get involved in.

Ok, I don't know what codex you are reading, but if you are not attention whoring and are serious here, you have this all wrong.
From a competitive tournament player, i can assure you this:
Dark Eldar are the most intricate and versatile army in the game right now. We can make changes on the fly depending on our opponent, and almost every unit is viable.
So, if you think we are slow, and boring, and stale, you simply lack the vision on how to build, kit and deploy your army to make them everything you wish they could be, because they can be.

For the first time EVER, I can truly say our army is GOOD.

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PostSubject: Re: Heartbroken   Tue Apr 10 2018, 22:09

I have also played since 2nd edition and in all honesty I have never seen the game as bad as it was in 7th so I do find it odd to see players leave the hobby now at this point and not during 7th edition.

The thing to remember is that a game can offer different things to different players. If the thing one player enjoyed like the placing of a tank for example gets removed from the game then they will be unhappy with the change. For me, seeing the removal of the jink rule brought me back to the game...so if that can bring me back, then small changes can also send players away I guess.
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PostSubject: Re: Heartbroken   Tue Apr 10 2018, 22:50

Heh... never mind Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Heartbroken   Tue Apr 10 2018, 22:55

I gotta sympathize with OP here, because misery loves company.

I've been in the same position, hell I think I've made a few topics about this very issue. 8th is awful, it's D&D 4th edition for wargames. We used to have lots of options, now we have lots of subtle variations on the same options. Everyone has a deep strike option. Everyone rerolls 1s. Everyone can move fast in a transport. You know what we have that's special? Agents of Vect. That's it. SNOOOORRREEE.

Additionally, and this counts for a lot, I'm not "the good Dark Eldar guy" at the shop anymore, and I probably won't ever be again considering how many people are picking it up. It was neat being the special dude who managed to get the army to do magic in 7th edition, and now that thunder is stolen. When I practice I can be very good at the game but I lack the time and focus to be top table material and the models and sparring partners to be a strong ITC contender. Additionally I've played so few games of 8th since NOVA last year that I'm incredibly rusty. So even if the army is very good, my tournament results won't reflect that.

So while the army is good, and the models are cool, and there's tons of new people in the hobby, and the tournament scene is blowing up, and theres more 40k media than ever coming out, all I can say is... mehhhhh. It's like the new Star Wars. There's tons of new Star Wars crap coming out since it was bought out by Disney, all hitting that boring mediocre line of mass appeal. is it bad? No, but after seeing what it used to be, even dealing with the misery of the prequels, I can't get excited for Captain Bland's Space Adventure Movie Part 20. 40k has gone from a quaint nerdy hobby to a never ending nightmare of FAQs meta shifts, retaliatory nerfs, and faction reworks. Gone are the days when you just needed your BRB and codex, now you need to reference at least 3 PDFs and have your Chapter Approved and be subscribed to the community site incase you missed something.

I'm still in the hobby though. I was collecting Dark Eldar long before I ever rolled dice, and at the end of the day I still love my army. GW isn't gonna break down my door and take my old books away, they're not going to throw out my comically small 3rd edition Grotesques or tell me I can't use the old lore. Besides, I'm a troll, and nothing pisses off the army jumpers and the competitive players and the tryhards more than that weird guy off doing his own thing and having a grand old time.

I can't tell you what to do, and yeah GW's gonna chase the magic dollar straight until their game is as basic as my ex-wife, but the models are cool and the old books are all floating around, and I'm assuming you have friends you play with. Just play with them, or show up at local tournaments with all goblin green bases and get into rules arguments about your faction name. It's a hobby, it is literally what you make of it.

Cash is nice too though so there is that.

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FuelDrop
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PostSubject: Re: Heartbroken   Wed Apr 11 2018, 00:47

I want to be entirely clear:
Warriors are insanely good value for 6 points.
Wyches are finally viable.

Mechanically, this codex is undoubtedly the easiest to use, most powerful, ect since 5th edition.

I do not care about that.
I strongly dislike the CP/Stratagem system. I dislike being forced to take a lot of HQs. I like to be able to kit out my HQs with interesting combinations of wargear that makes them feel unique. I like being the fastest army on the table and using that as a weapon.

Can you see now why I hate this edition? I didn't like 7th edition either, but at least then we were legitimately fast. Now we are the slowest Eldar force unless we pick very specific obsessions, sacrificing even more for our speed. And even then, we find our fastest vehicle is still slower than the fastest CWE vehicle.

When our 'blisteringly fast' assault transports are outpaced by artillery vehicles and heavy tanks...

And few of our tricks are unique. Open topped is now valuable to precisely one unit: Warriors. That's it. Our iconic advantage, for which our transports are famed, boosts one troop unit in our army.

Our assault units now get out and run alongside their transports. We even have a really funny stratagem that lets us re-embark after a fight. But because we can't assault out of a moving transport most of the time this means that a squad of wyches is going to pile out, run alongside their transport into battle, jump in, the transport is not going to move, then they'll leap out again to run alongside it to the next fight.

And as hilarious as that visual is, Dark Eldar shouldn't be the comic relief army.

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PostSubject: Re: Heartbroken   Wed Apr 11 2018, 05:53

@FuelDrop wrote:
When our 'blisteringly fast' assault transports are outpaced by artillery vehicles and heavy tanks...

What tanks are faster than raiders? raiders only move 14 so they are slower than craft world tanks, but what "artillery vehicles" and "heavy tanks" move 14? with the flayed skull obsession they would move 17 which would that not make us the fastest army in the game? also we have no penalty for moving and firing.

Besides that I agree with alot of what you said. While its great that we are competitive, I think we are being pushed towards being a horde army with our very cheap kabalites and to some degree wyches (8 points is a little over horde territory imo), and i don't think anyone started playing dark eldar wanting to be able to match the numbers of orks...
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PostSubject: Re: Heartbroken   Wed Apr 11 2018, 06:09

It just means you are now able to have enough redundancy that a playstyle built around glass and wet t-shirts is viable.
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