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hekatrixxy
Kabalite Warrior
hekatrixxy

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Join date : 2016-06-18

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PostSubject: London GT 2000pt list   London GT 2000pt list I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 08 2018, 15:29

With the deadline for the London GT list submission fast approaching (end of April), here is my current thinking for my list:

Command Points: 7

Battalion (Flayed Skull) - 1555pts

Archon w/ Huskblade, Phantasm Grenade Launcher & The Obsidian Veil - 79pts
Archon w/ Agoniser - 74pts

6 x 5 Kabalite Warriors w/ Blaster - 47pts each = 282pts

1 x 5 Scourges w/ 4 Blasters = 128pts
1 x 5 Scourges w/ 4 Haywire Blasters = 92pts

3 x Ravagers w/ Disintegrator Cannons - 125pts = 375pts

7 x Venom w/ Splinter Cannons 75pts each = 525pts

Air Wing (Flayed Skull) - 445pts

2 x Razorwing Jetfighters w/ Disintegrator Cannons & Splinter Cannon - 145pts each = 290pts
1 x Voidraven Bomber w/ Void Lances = 155pts


I have a reasonable selection of other units built (and a couple unbuilt), but they are mostly primed only and I would struggle to paint a significant amount more before the tournament. As it stands only the Scourges need painting from the list above.

In practice games this list and it's earlier Index incarnation have done very well for me. I love the speed, the sheer number of shots being put out, and the overall theme of the Kabal of the Flayed Skull.

I would imagine the most obvious initial potential improvement would be to run everything as Black Heart instead and use Labyrinthine Cunning and Writ of the Living Muse on the Archon instead. I will hopefully try out a game with this switch this week.

Any suggestions for optimising would be of course appreciated.

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Lord Asvaldir
Hekatrix
Lord Asvaldir

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PostSubject: Re: London GT 2000pt list   London GT 2000pt list I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 08 2018, 17:26

I'm sure several people will recommend changing things up and putting the ravagers in their own spearhead with black heart and the living muse, but honestly I love this list as is. Just pure speed and oversaturation of kabal firepower. Granted I've only had one game so far with the flayed skull obsession, but man does the trait go a long way I think on venoms and the warrior units in them. Rerolling 1s and ignores cover makes them much more capable of clearing units out wherever they hide, and you have a solid amount of firepower backing them up from 3 fliers and 3 ravagers. I'd run this list if I had the models for it. Only change I might make is take the djinn blade on your archon instead, turn him into a solid heavy hitter. Viel seems nice for keeping him alive, but I think I'd prefer the hitting power.

Maybe not the most helpful critique since I don't really have any input on what to change, just man dude I like this.

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hekatrixxy
Kabalite Warrior
hekatrixxy

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PostSubject: Re: London GT 2000pt list   London GT 2000pt list I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 09 2018, 01:19

Thanks for the comments. I love the list as well! The Djinn blade does look good, and with famed savagery would give the Archon 8 attacks on the charge, hitting on 2s, re-rolling 1s, S5 AP -3 D3 damage. Just writing it down does seem very good. He could do a lot of work. My main thinking with the Veil was to try and deny my opponent slay the warlord.

As for the BH spearhead build, I'm personally not sold on it. For one, in this list at least it would mean needing a third Archon, which I could in theory do by dropping all of the splinter cannons from the Venoms and having the two sub-Archons with Venom Blades only if I didn't want to drop an actual unit to make room.

The main reason though is that, at least for the way I play the army, being able to rapidly reposition everything to locally overwhelm enemy units and reduce return fire by being too far away or out of LOS is super valuable. With a BH spearhead, those three Ravagers suddenly become a lot more static to stay close to the Archon.

In addition, one of the missions at the tournament use Big Guns Never Tire for the eternal war component. Ravagers with 17"/13"/9" move could very well prove super useful for taking objectives. So far I have been using Screaming Jets to protect the Ravagers turn one.

The other thing I am experimenting with is Shredder Scourges instead of Haywire Scourges. They are the exact same points so easy to swap in and out.

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Lyceus
Hellion
Lyceus

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Join date : 2017-07-10

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PostSubject: Re: London GT 2000pt list   London GT 2000pt list I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 09 2018, 02:27

I would keep the canons. I would also give the WL a blaster and the reroll all wound trait. Its useful for shooting and better then 1 additional attack - just in case you stay flayed skull.

Competetive wise... i think black heart is to good to pass on...
You can reroll the advance on the black heart archon first turn and that should pretty much enable him to catch up with your ravagers. Keep him without upgrades in that case. You have enough time to playtest it. Mining command points is super nice.

If you need points I would drop one warrior unit or one venom maybe.
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hekatrixxy
Kabalite Warrior
hekatrixxy

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PostSubject: Re: London GT 2000pt list   London GT 2000pt list I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 09 2018, 14:41

Ok, so here is the Black Heart version of the list. I dropped one Venom, the Splinter Cannons on the RWJFs and one Blaster on a Kabalite Warrior squad, but gained an Archon and a Blaster on two of the Archons, a CP and then the Black Heart goodness.

Total Points: 2000
Command Points: 8

Battalion (Black Heart) - 1094pts

Archon w/ Huskblade, Blaster & Phantasm Grenade Launcher - 96pts
Archon w/ Huskblade, Blaster - 93pts

5 x 5 Kabalite Warriors w/ Blaster - 47pts each = 235pts

1 x 5 Scourges w/ 4 Blasters = 128pts
1 x 5 Scourges w/ 4 Haywire Blasters = 92pts

6 x Venom w/ Splinter Cannons 75pts each = 450pts

Spearhead Detachment (Black Heart) - 481pts

Archon w/ Huskblade & Writ of the Living Muse - 76pts (warlord trait - Labyrinthine Cunning)

1 x 5 Kabalite Warriors = 30pts

3 x Ravagers w/ Disintegrator Cannons - 125pts = 375pts

Air Wing (Black Heart) - 425pts

2 x Razorwing Jetfighters w/ Disintegrator Cannons & Twin Splinter Rifle - 135pts each = 270pts
1 x Voidraven Bomber w/ Void Lances = 155pts



I'll take this for a spin this week and see how it gets on.

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Lord Asvaldir
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: London GT 2000pt list   London GT 2000pt list I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 09 2018, 15:59

Why go black heart for the battalion? Yeah black heart is really handy for the ravager spearhead build, but it basically doesn't benefit 5 man warrior units at all, and venoms only a little. It seems some people really like that +6 fnp on their vehicles, but I can't imagine that being better than flayed skull for the venom/warrior units.

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hekatrixxy
Kabalite Warrior
hekatrixxy

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PostSubject: Re: London GT 2000pt list   London GT 2000pt list I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 09 2018, 16:37

Biggest reason would be paint job. They would all be the same scheme, so no way for my opponents to clearly and easily know which units belong to which Kabal. I don't disagree that a mix of Flayed Skull and Black Heart is most likely the optimal way to run the list though.

If I can think of a way to visually distinguish them without having to actually paint them differently I could do it. I would also want to check with the TOs that they would be happy with such a method as well. If you have any thoughts about how to do this then I'm all ears.

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AshCrow
Hellion
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PostSubject: Re: London GT 2000pt list   London GT 2000pt list I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 09 2018, 17:41

Could just put a sticker or something on the bases
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Lyceus
Hellion
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PostSubject: Re: London GT 2000pt list   London GT 2000pt list I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 11 2018, 05:20

You might have little flags or poles you can attach to the venoms.
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RegoCrux
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PostSubject: Re: London GT 2000pt list   London GT 2000pt list I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 11 2018, 08:20

If ravagers are armed with Disintegrators, then Flayed Skull is great to knock heavy infantry out of cover.
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BlackCadian
Kabalite Warrior
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PostSubject: Re: London GT 2000pt list   London GT 2000pt list I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 11 2018, 08:23

I like both lists, let us know how it goes!

Regarding mixing kabals, I’m not sure what you mean by “my opponent has no easy way to know which is which”? It’s literally just 1 Kabalite unit that would be different from the others, no? All other units would be completely within one kabal or the other if I’m not mistaken.
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Burnage
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: London GT 2000pt list   London GT 2000pt list I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 11 2018, 08:49

@BlackCadian wrote:
I like both lists, let us know how it goes!

Regarding mixing kabals, I’m not sure what you mean by “my opponent has no easy way to know which is which”? It’s literally just 1 Kabalite unit that would be different from the others, no? All other units would be completely within one kabal or the other if I’m not mistaken.

I've already seen at least one tournament in the UK specifically call out Dark Eldar detachments as needing different paint schemes to make them clearly distinct. Just saying "Hey, this unit's from a different Kabal" almost certainly isn't going to be enough.
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BlackCadian
Kabalite Warrior
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PostSubject: Re: London GT 2000pt list   London GT 2000pt list I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 11 2018, 09:09

Wow, really? That seems pretty harsh. Especially considering there’s not a clear cookie-cutter build (which we all agree is a great thing).

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hekatrixxy
Kabalite Warrior
hekatrixxy

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PostSubject: Re: London GT 2000pt list   London GT 2000pt list I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 11 2018, 16:04

I don't think it's harsh at all to be honest. If someone had an army of Space Marines all painted the same colour but had three different detachments within the army and they were counting them all as different chapters to get different benefits, that would get confusing at times, making my target priority decisions harder.

For a friendly game with someone you already know to test things out I think it would be fine to mix even without the different paint job, but for a big tournament there has to be some very clear visual distinction, ideally paint job.

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Shizi
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PostSubject: Re: London GT 2000pt list   London GT 2000pt list I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 11 2018, 16:35

Blaster scourges are kinda meh IMHO, I'd drop them for another ravager. Also I'd consider to repaint ravagers and razorwings, cus after playing few games I must say that ignoring cover against firebases (reapers in covers etc) flayed skull is must have, but if you're expecting flyrants, cultists bombs or poxfarms then keeping battalion as BH is not bad idea too
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BlackCadian
Kabalite Warrior
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PostSubject: Re: London GT 2000pt list   London GT 2000pt list I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 12 2018, 00:50

@hekatrixxy wrote:
I don't think it's harsh at all to be honest. If someone had an army of Space Marines all painted the same colour but had three different detachments within the army and they were counting them all as different chapters to get different benefits, that would get confusing at times, making my target priority decisions harder.

For a friendly game with someone you already know to test things out I think it would be fine to mix even without the different paint job, but for a big tournament there has to be some very clear visual distinction, ideally paint job.

Well I'm happy to agree to disagree here. In the spirit of finding a solution I just remembered that we use small acrylic tokens in Infinity (basically Necromunda but deeper ruleset). They are 25mm sized and can be easily self-made whilst looking suprisingly good:

London GT 2000pt list Tokens2

Might those be helpful? You can easily design them yourself with the Kabal/Cult/Coven Logo and then place them next to a unit for instance.

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hekatrixxy
Kabalite Warrior
hekatrixxy

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PostSubject: Re: London GT 2000pt list   London GT 2000pt list I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 12 2018, 01:26

I like the idea of the tokens being kept next to squads. Should be super easy to just paint a few 25mm bases in a few different solid colours. I shall contact the TO and find out if it will be acceptable.

If I remember correctly there is at least one other Archon on this forum who is going to the London GT as well, so I shall post the response here as well as in a new thread so everyone can see.

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withershadow
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: London GT 2000pt list   London GT 2000pt list I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 12 2018, 01:38

That’s a great idea, I think maybe flags would be another way to go. Source a few extra Sybarite flags, magnetize them, and paint the Kabal logos on them.

That UK tournament seems silly, the Poisoned Tongue and Black Heart look nearly identical, for example.
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hekatrixxy
Kabalite Warrior
hekatrixxy

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PostSubject: Re: London GT 2000pt list   London GT 2000pt list I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 12 2018, 01:54

Here is what I just emailed them:

Quote :
I have a question regarding lists that mix different Drukhari Kabals, Wych Cults and Haemonculus Covens. For example having a list that has both units from the Kabal of the Black Heart and units from the Kabal of the Flayed Skull.

I agree that in an ideal world the units in each of the Kabals would have a distinct paint job, but as the Drukhari army has never had the concept of mixing Kabals within a single list before the recent codex release, a lot of Drukhari players, myself included, have one paint scheme applied across all units. To allow Drukhari players to run lists that mix Kabals, would distinctly coloured tokens, for example made from 25mm bases, kept next to units to denote which Kabal they belong to be acceptable for this tournament?

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hekatrixxy
Kabalite Warrior
hekatrixxy

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PostSubject: Re: London GT 2000pt list   London GT 2000pt list I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 12 2018, 06:12

Here is the response:

Quote :
Good question. They need to be distinguishable because it is relevant to the rules applicable and it is only fair to your opponent. I suggest using loom bands to distinguish Kabals. Or: add some colour to the bases or something so that your opppnent can clearly see what belongs to what.

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withershadow
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PostSubject: Re: London GT 2000pt list   London GT 2000pt list I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 12 2018, 13:33

I don’t see how faggy loom bands work better than a base or banner, but it’s good they are understanding.
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hekatrixxy
Kabalite Warrior
hekatrixxy

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PostSubject: Re: London GT 2000pt list   London GT 2000pt list I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 12 2018, 17:07

Doesn't have to be loom bands per se, just something bright and obvious with the benefit of being easily removable. I will probably go for painting the rims of the bases a different colour, and maybe some coloured tape around the stems of the stuff on flying stands.

I tried the mixed Kabal list tonight. It was against Space Wolves so a bit unbalanced in my favour to be honest. I actually dropped the barebones Warrior squad and one more Warrior squad in a Venom to bring two units of five Mandrakes.

Stuff that worked well:

Ravagers around the warlord Archon were solid. With a re-rollable advance on the Archon it's pretty easy to move the group and keep the buffs applied. The Ravagers can actually do a pretty good job of preventing charges against the Archon as well for denying slay the warlord/kingslayer.

The Mandrakes just rinse through Marines in cover with their shooting. They were solid and definitely earned more than their points back.

The standard Husk Blade on an Archon can do some solid work. Pretty good for 6 points.

Flayed Skull Venom + Warrior poison output was decent at just forcing him to take lots of 3+ saves and wearing him down.

Haywire Scourges mortal wound output against vehicles is solid as well.

Four naturally deepstriking units + optionally more with Screaming Jets is great for seeing where they will deploy first and then being able to deploy out of range/sight of their long range weapons.

Stuff I'm not sure on:

Blaster Scourges. They can be good (they weren't this game), but they are too much of a target priority the moment they drop down and not resilient enough to withstand the return fire, so it's a bit of a gamble if they will make their points back. Definitely a strong candidate for using fire and fade on (which I forgot to use) to keep them safe for at least a second turn of shooting. I have a unit of Shredder Scourges as well, so I might swap them in, leaving points for an extra Blaster on the warlord Archon. I also have a fourth Ravager which is pretty much a straight swap in points wise, but it is still on sprues and I'm not sure I have time to build, magnetise and paint it.

Also, note to self, remember the inured to suffering on the flyers!

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