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PFI
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PostSubject: Grotesque Improvements   Sat Apr 07 2018, 20:39

Damn Boys!!

Grotesques were 31 points +6 for Flesh Gauntlet + 3 for Monstrous Cleaver for 40 points

Now they are 32 + 3 for Flesh Gauntlet + 0 for monstrous cleaver for 35 points.

They were 13.33 points per wound and are now 8.75 ppw

4 wracks have equivalent wounds but are worth 1 more point. They have 8 attacks but the 5 the grotesque gets at str 5 with -2 rend I think makes up the difference and each grotesque could take a liquifier gun if you wanted it and still go in transports. could do a raider with 5 grots, then use the advance strat and flayed skull to get them all within liquifier range for funsies.

Anyways these guys got wayyyy better
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The Strange Dark One
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesque Improvements   Sat Apr 07 2018, 20:45

And if you take Urien they are S6, wounding GEQ on a 2+.
I'd also consider to have a unit of 5 along with the strategem that gives them +1 to their PfP.
Re-rolling charges 1st turn and hitting on a 2+ on the 2nd turn? Yes, please.

Anyway, the Grotesquerie is back!

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AzraeI
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesque Improvements   Sat Apr 07 2018, 22:08

the improvement to the monstrous cleaver are great, grotesques seem really scary, esp with urien, t6 str6 5 attacks, 4++ its nasty
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesque Improvements   Sat Apr 07 2018, 22:16

Yep, i'm going to be using them more often for sure now. thinking about running 2x5 in Flawed ones Raiders

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PostSubject: Re: Grotesque Improvements   Sat Apr 07 2018, 23:53

I'm definitely going to give Urien and some grotesques a go in my first game with a codex.
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Gorefather
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesque Improvements   Sun Apr 08 2018, 16:07

I'm really tempted to convert up some more Grots now, either with Urien buffing their str or with the one coven that gives them an extra point of rend. S5 AP-3 cleaves through MEQs pretty handily.
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesque Improvements   Sun Apr 08 2018, 16:08

@Gorefather wrote:
I'm really tempted to convert up some more Grots now, either with Urien buffing their str or with the one coven that gives them an extra point of rend. S5 AP-3 cleaves through MEQs pretty handily.

Assuming you're not using Urien, do you think an extra point of AP is worth it over a 4++?

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The Strange Dark One
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesque Improvements   Sun Apr 08 2018, 16:49

@Soulless Samurai wrote:
@Gorefather wrote:
I'm really tempted to convert up some more Grots now, either with Urien buffing their str or with the one coven that gives them an extra point of rend. S5 AP-3 cleaves through MEQs pretty handily.

Assuming you're not using Urien, do you think an extra point of AP is worth it over a 4++?

Personally, I think the extra AP is worth losing the 4++.
But it isn't worth losing D3 CP and the 4++.

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Dalakh
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesque Improvements   Sun Apr 08 2018, 16:59

Really was makes the Grotesques in the Codex are the 4 wounds instead of 3. You got D3 damage ? That's cute. You got 3 damage ? That's cute. You got 2 damage ? Let me waste one of your shots with a cheeky 6+ FnP.


Last edited by Dalakh on Sun Apr 08 2018, 17:01; edited 1 time in total
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UmJamLam
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesque Improvements   Sun Apr 08 2018, 17:04

Muuuch better now, especially with the 4++ from Prophets. They're not always going to kill their points, but they are extremely tanky now. Having 4 wounds makes a HUGE difference when they have D3 stuff pointed their way. Tied up a venerable dread for 2 full turns with 3 grots and managed to 6 wounds to it before they died, fair trade imo.
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Gorefather
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesque Improvements   Sun Apr 08 2018, 17:06

@Soulless Samurai wrote:
@Gorefather wrote:
I'm really tempted to convert up some more Grots now, either with Urien buffing their str or with the one coven that gives them an extra point of rend. S5 AP-3 cleaves through MEQs pretty handily.

Assuming you're not using Urien, do you think an extra point of AP is worth it over a 4++?

Personally, yes. My problem with many Coven units is that they struggled to kill things, you could hit and wound but the enemy would just make power armor saves all day. I would much rather play aggressively and butcher some monkeigh genebrutes before they get to shoot in the first place.
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Crazy_Ivan
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesque Improvements   Sun Apr 08 2018, 17:17

I have 16 of them! Can't wait to get them back on the table.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesque Improvements   Sun Apr 08 2018, 17:19

@Gorefather wrote:
@Soulless Samurai wrote:
@Gorefather wrote:
I'm really tempted to convert up some more Grots now, either with Urien buffing their str or with the one coven that gives them an extra point of rend. S5 AP-3 cleaves through MEQs pretty handily.

Assuming you're not using Urien, do you think an extra point of AP is worth it over a 4++?

Personally, yes. My problem with many Coven units is that they struggled to kill things, you could hit and wound but the enemy would just make power armor saves all day. I would much rather play aggressively and butcher some monkeigh genebrutes before they get to shoot in the first place.

I think a couple Wracks and 1 Haemonculus could work with the bonus -1ap, but for Grots? No, they need the 4++

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shadowseercB
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesque Improvements   Sun Apr 08 2018, 17:23

I played 4 games so far with my 8 man squad of Grots. They have been so far unkillable with a 4++, 5 attacks (+1 from weapon), and their -2 AP weapon. I just run them across on foot and watch my opponents freak out when they decimate infantry units in combat. I dont know how they didnt make the most improved list over wyches.

Very fun and good for aggressive lists.

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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesque Improvements   Mon Apr 09 2018, 14:03

Has anyone run the math for the Cleaver vs the Gauntlet?

I saw someone mention that the Gauntlet is better against everything except vehicles.

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englishfury
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesque Improvements   Mon Apr 09 2018, 14:26

Ran 4 and Urien and Succhbus in a raider today, they punched well above their weight against a friends Custodians. 20 S6 ap-2 attacks is nothing to sneeze at
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesque Improvements   Mon Apr 09 2018, 14:46

@shadowseercB wrote:
I played 4 games so far with my 8 man squad of Grots.  They have been so far unkillable with a 4++, 5 attacks (+1 from weapon), and their -2 AP weapon.  I just run them across on foot and watch my opponents  freak out when they decimate infantry units in combat.  I dont know how they didnt make the most improved list over wyches.

Very fun and good for aggressive lists.
How do you deliver an 8-man squad? Tantalus?
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englishfury
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesque Improvements   Mon Apr 09 2018, 14:51

" I just run them across on foot"

They said in the quote.
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withershadow
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesque Improvements   Mon Apr 09 2018, 15:34

So much for my vaunted attention to detail. In my defense, it’s 9am and I’m already drunk.
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AzraeI
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesque Improvements   Mon Apr 09 2018, 15:44

@withershadow wrote:
So much for my vaunted attention to detail. In my defense, it’s 9am and I’m already drunk.


nice
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LordSplata
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesque Improvements   Mon Apr 09 2018, 16:16

@Soulless Samurai wrote:
Has anyone run the math for the Cleaver vs the Gauntlet?

I saw someone mention that the Gauntlet is better against everything except vehicles.

Gaunlet is only better against things with mainly an invulnerable save (deamons). Against MEQ and GEQ the extra attack from the cleaver made it by far and away the best choice.
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesque Improvements   Mon Apr 09 2018, 16:17

@LordSplata wrote:
Gaunlet is only better against things with mainly an invulnerable save (deamons).  Against MEQ and GEQ the extra attack from the cleaver made it by far and away the best choice.

But don't you get the extra attack with the Cleaver either way?

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withershadow
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesque Improvements   Mon Apr 09 2018, 16:31

@AzraeI wrote:
@withershadow wrote:
So much for my vaunted attention to detail. In my defense, it’s 9am and I’m already drunk.


nice
Vacation timing pretty perfect. Ravagers our of stock until next week anyway.

By the way, they are bringing Lelouch back. And if you still can buy Gangs in Germany and need those units, snatch it up, they are gone everywhere else.

Regarding cleaver/gauntlet, I did drunk math:
Vs MEQ
Gantlet 4 x 0.66 x 0.66 x 0.33 =0.57 regular, . 45 mortal
Cleaver 4 x 0.66 x 0.66 x 0.66 = 1.15

Vs GEQ
Gauntlet 1.15 normal, .45 mortal
Cleaver 1.74

vs TEQ
Gauntlet 0.3 normal, .45 mortal
Cleaver 0.87

Then you get a cleaver swing as an additional attack. Cleaver always better. I would love to trade the gauntlet for liquifiers. Cleaver I’m keeping.
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesque Improvements   Mon Apr 09 2018, 16:33

Thanks, Withershadow. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Grotesque Improvements   Mon Apr 09 2018, 16:55

I have two guys with Liquifiers that can only use the Gauntlet. They still do well for melee damage output and the two games I've played my opponent has noted they can do Mortal wounds as well as not die. Having one or two swing mortal wounds can be a good mental boost as well.
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