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 Dex is out!

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The Red King
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: Dex is out!   Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:40 pm

I squeezed a brigade in at 1850 but I agree. The choices are very limited.

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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: Dex is out!   Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:43 pm

@The Red King wrote:
I squeezed a brigade in at 1850 but I agree.  The choices are very limited.

We feel very much designed to work with multiple small detachments.

It's a bit frustrating that most of the events happening soon near me have quite strict detachment limitations (two or less) and don't seem to be willing to make an exception for the Dark Eldar.
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Khayyin
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PostSubject: Re: Dex is out!   Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:12 pm

@FuelDrop wrote:
Succubus, Lelith, and Drazhar are still rocking 1 damage weapons. I wouldn't be complaining if these guys were horde killers, but they're supposed to be duelists who hunt other characters. Just give the Glaive d3 damage and the other two Lethal Precision, and boom you are golden.

Both Succubus and Lelith can take an Impaler. And in the fluff both are characters that do kill characters slowly with 1000 cuts, to show their superior skill and entertain the masses in the Arena.
But still there is the artefact glaive with d3 damage.
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the_scotsman
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PostSubject: Re: Dex is out!   Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:47 pm

The succubus can also take a Shardnet and impaler. Pretty great for character hunting as they generally rock 4++ saves anyway so -1AP is generally all you need.
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FuelDrop
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PostSubject: Re: Dex is out!   Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:54 pm

@Khayyin wrote:
@FuelDrop wrote:
Succubus, Lelith, and Drazhar are still rocking 1 damage weapons. I wouldn't be complaining if these guys were horde killers, but they're supposed to be duelists who hunt other characters. Just give the Glaive d3 damage and the other two Lethal Precision, and boom you are golden.

Both Succubus and Lelith can take an Impaler. And in the fluff both are characters that do kill characters slowly with 1000 cuts, to show their superior skill and entertain the masses in the Arena.
But still there is the artefact glaive with d3 damage.

I would be more convinced by the thousand cuts arguement if they didn't all also have lower attacks base than Haemies and Archons.
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mynamelegend
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PostSubject: Re: Dex is out!   Sun Apr 08, 2018 12:42 am

Succubi are 54 points using a standard configuration, I don't expect a Character Hunter for that cost. As established, Cult of Grief's relic makes her swing at S6, AP-3, Damage 1d3. So if you do want to use a succubus to hunt characters, do that.
(Or just take the Coven of Twelve relic with the +1 to wound Warlord Trait and enjoy your 2+ poison, AP-2, damage 3 melee with a Haemonculus. Or take the Djinn Blade and Hatred Eternal on an archon and enjoy your seven attacks at S4, reroll to wound, AP-3, Damage 1d3. Do we really need the succubus to be our character hunter when both our other HQ options already do that just fine?)

Edit: Out of curiosity I ran the numbers on a Triptych Whip + Cult of Strife + Attack Drug, and she's got about a little worse than even odds against a Daemon Prince over 3x her cost on most days. What more do you want from a character hunter?


Last edited by mynamelegend on Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:12 am; edited 1 time in total
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Aschen
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PostSubject: Re: Dex is out!   Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:12 am

I havent looked at the codex yet... I ordered a special edition, and its not gonna be at my hobby shop til at least tuesday-sighs- But anyone notice to make our characters really viable in combat, we need relics... except we only get one, and they want us to have like 3 HQ minimum... so 3 command points for extra relics, then the command point for giving our characters warlord traits...and we've spent most of our command points before the game even starts!
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FuelDrop
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PostSubject: Re: Dex is out!   Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:13 am

@mynamelegend wrote:
Succubi are 54 points using a standard configuration, I don't expect a Character Hunter for that cost. As established, Cult of Grief's relic makes her swing at S6, AP-3, Damage 1d3. So if you do want to use a succubus to hunt characters, do that.
(Or just take the Coven of Twelve relic with the +1 to wound Warlord Trait and enjoy your 2+ poison, AP-2, damage 3 melee with a Haemonculus. Or take the Djinn Blade and Hatred Eternal on an archon and enjoy your seven attacks at S4, reroll to wound, AP-3, Damage 1d3. Do we really need the succubus to be our character hunter when both our other HQ options already do that just fine?)

Sorry, still stuck in the dark eldar mindset where the succubus was our best CC HQ, not our worst. Will adjust my expectations accordingly.
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TheBaconPope
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PostSubject: Re: Dex is out!   Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:13 am

Quote :
Sorry, still stuck in the dark eldar mindset where the succubus was our best CC HQ, not our worst. Will adjust my expectations accordingly.

No, it's all very simple you see. They took the Archon, the cheap HQ, and buffed him to be deadlier in melee. Then they took the Succubus, the one that supposed to be good in melee, and made her the cheap one.

It all makes sense, you see.

However, to be fair, a Succubus with the Blood Glaive, Hyper-Swift Reflexes, and a Blast Pistol is just downright brutal for her cost. Shame you can only get one or them though

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withershadow
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PostSubject: Re: Dex is out!   Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:23 am

@Aschen wrote:
I havent looked at the codex yet...  I ordered a special edition, and its not gonna be at my hobby shop til at least tuesday-sighs-  But anyone notice to make our characters really viable in combat, we need relics... except we only get one, and they want us to have like 3 HQ minimum...  so 3 command points for extra relics, then the command point for giving our characters warlord traits...and we've spent most of our command points before the game even starts!

I agree we have lots of great relics, even 3 does not feel like enough.
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FuelDrop
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PostSubject: Re: Dex is out!   Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:30 am

@TheBaconPope wrote:
Quote :
Sorry, still stuck in the dark eldar mindset where the succubus was our best CC HQ, not our worst. Will adjust my expectations accordingly.

No, it's all very simple you see. They took the Archon, the cheap HQ, and buffed him to be deadlier in melee. Then they took the Succubus, the one that supposed to be good in melee, and made her the cheap one.

It all makes sense, you see.

However, to be fair, a Succubus with the Blood Glaive, Hyper-Swift Reflexes, and a Blast Pistol is just downright brutal for her cost. Shame you can only get one or them though

I would rather our cheap HQ not rely on relics...

Eh, maybe it's just me.
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mynamelegend
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PostSubject: Re: Dex is out!   Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:07 am

We have some of the game's better warlord traits and relics. Combine them on our HQs and they can become remarkably beastly for their point cost. Don't, and they won't be.

I'm honestly not sure at what point in the last eight years we've had better HQs than now, unless you count the days when we could just take a single 10 point Lhamaean and wash our hands of the entire sorry goddamn FOC slot.
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Britishgrotesque
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PostSubject: Re: Dex is out!   Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:56 am

@FuelDrop wrote:
@TheBaconPope wrote:
Quote :
Sorry, still stuck in the dark eldar mindset where the succubus was our best CC HQ, not our worst. Will adjust my expectations accordingly.

No, it's all very simple you see. They took the Archon, the cheap HQ, and buffed him to be deadlier in melee. Then they took the Succubus, the one that supposed to be good in melee, and made her the cheap one.

It all makes sense, you see.

However, to be fair, a Succubus with the Blood Glaive, Hyper-Swift Reflexes, and a Blast Pistol is just downright brutal for her cost. Shame you can only get one or them though

I would rather our cheap HQ not rely on relics...

Eh, maybe it's just me.

I feel like this is how it's meant to be, a succubus is pretty strong on her own, She costs 54 points and can dish out 6 str 5 ap -3 attacks each turn, rerolling 1s, and by turn 3 hitting on a 2+.

Archon is meant to be the expensive one, he has all the toys, they are a step above succubus too in hierarchy.
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Gherma
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PostSubject: Re: Dex is out!   Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:55 am

SUCCUBUS with archite glaive is not even 54, just 50!

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The Strange Dark One
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PostSubject: Re: Dex is out!   Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:17 am

@FuelDrop wrote:
Succubus, Lelith, and Drazhar are still rocking 1 damage weapons. I wouldn't be complaining if these guys were horde killers, but they're supposed to be duelists who hunt other characters. Just give the Glaive d3 damage and the other two Lethal Precision, and boom you are golden.

That's the reason why I am a huge fan of the Blood Glaive. No -1 to hit and D3 damage.
Your Succubus also has a 3++ and you get the best Reavers.

Red Grief all the way.

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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: Dex is out!   Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:25 am

The limitation I'm noticing most atm is our lack of anti-vehicle close combat options. I don't wanna trade shots to take down vehicles with our flimsy boats.

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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Dex is out!   Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:39 am

@TeenageAngst wrote:
My attempts to create a Brigade have run into a snag. Due to the fact that flyers are now their own unit entry and the weird interactions between beasts/court units and Beastmasters/Archons, filling slots is a chore.

Yeah, having the Court be slotless makes it really irritating.

@TeenageAngst wrote:
The limitation I'm noticing most atm is our lack of anti-vehicle close combat options. I don't wanna trade shots to take down vehicles with our flimsy boats.

It's rather annoying that haywire grenades appear to have been removed altogether.

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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: Dex is out!   Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:02 pm

They're a 1CP stratagem used in the shooting phase with hilarious consequences.

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PostSubject: Re: Dex is out!   Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:05 pm

@TeenageAngst wrote:
They're a 1CP stratagem used in the shooting phase with hilarious
consequences.

Eh. I'm not a fan of wargear being turned into stratagems.

And this one also removes their main use - which was in melee.

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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: Dex is out!   Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:10 pm

I'm not sure you realize how BS this ability is.

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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: Dex is out!   Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:16 pm

@TeenageAngst wrote:
I'm not sure you realize how BS this ability is.

What's so bad about it?
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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: Dex is out!   Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:22 pm

Nothing it's good

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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: Dex is out!   Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:36 pm

It's not bad but it's just a 6" "Flakk missile" right?

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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: Dex is out!   Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:03 pm

Yeah it's handy for throwing a mortal wound or two on a vehicle on its last legs. Stratagem that does mortal wounds which I like more though is actually the torment grenade. Higher chance to hit because it's d3 shots instead of 1, and the mortal wounds can hit anything not just a vehicle. Since I have a couple PGLs sprinkled in most of my wyches, it's a nice way to get in some key mortal wounds if I need them.

The only drawback is the model has to take an ld test on 3d6, but with most units that's not a big deal.

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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Dex is out!   Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:09 pm

@TeenageAngst wrote:
I'm not sure you realize how BS this ability is.

Clearly I don't.

Would you care to explain?

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