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Quauchtemoc
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PostSubject: Re: Dex is out!   Sat Apr 07 2018, 08:38

@withershadow wrote:
Patrol detachments have to deal with a hefty HQ tax. It definitely works at the three patrol level if you’re allowed to take another detachment of flyers or whatever, but at the 6 patrol level... eh, 6HQs 6 Troops for 8 command points, or 4 HQs and 6 troops for two battalions and 6 command points. Not sure the extra two CPs are worth the extra 100-150 points worth of characters.

One thing I did notice, though, the poisoned tongue Kabal lets you re-roll 1s to wound on ALL melee attacks, not just poisoned ones like I read it at first. So Sslyth would be re-rolling hits, and re-rolling 1s to wound. Shame about them losing a wound, but I do think they are very respectable for a retinue.

Yes exactly, even if our HQ are most cost effective now 6HQ is too much just for CP
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withershadow
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PostSubject: Re: Dex is out!   Sat Apr 07 2018, 09:20

It really is meant just to let you use a bunch of different obsessions. Otherwise a Battalion + spearhead/Vanguard/etc. give some you same CPs, but way more slots for non-troop stuff.

That said, I do want to try a double patrol of poisoned tongue for 8 court models, but I won’t be sweeping any national conventions with that plan,
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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: Dex is out!   Sat Apr 07 2018, 12:43

Looking at things in probably going to go with a Brigade with tertiary patrols to round out my access to warlord traits and such. There's so much more to be gained by using stratagem IMO than most obsessions confer, excluding Covens.

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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Dex is out!   Sat Apr 07 2018, 12:57

I have to say, the anti-synergy in our codex is really starting to grate.

- Why do Kabal/Cult/Coven traits, Splinter Racks and such not work with artefacts? I'm pretty sure no other army has that restriction. Would it really break the game if Parasite's Kiss rerolled 1s to-wound? Neutral

- Why does Drazhar still have the same, stupid aura? It's useless for him from turn 1. It's useless for any Klaivex from turn 1. It's useless for Incubi from turn 3 onwards. Is that really the best they can do for the Incubi Lord? Could he not maybe give +1 to wound instead? Or let them reroll 1s to wound? Or anything that isn't useless for everyone for most of the game? Evil or Very Mad

- We are supposed to be good at fighting from our transports, right? It is kind of our thing. So why does being in a transport cancel so many of our rules?

- Maybe they don't want the Archon's aura to buff units in transports. Okay. I mean, why would he even be in a transport when he could be utilising one of the 0 mobility options he has access to? But whatever, let's just assume that they don't him buffing any of the men he's specifically chosen to ride with him. Fine. Could he not at least be allowed to buff himself?

- Also, even if the Archon's aura isn't allowed to work on transports, would it really be too much to ask that the Court still get their rerolls when embarked on the same transport as their Archon? It's infuriating that two of them have shooting attacks but aren't allowed to get their bonus when firing from a transport. Isn't parking within 8" of the enemy risky enough without having to disembark both the Medusae and their Archon just to they'll deign acknowledge his presence?


Sorry, I really don't mean to be negative. It's just really annoying that whenever I see a build that looks remotely fun, the ham-hand of GW immediately slaps it down. "NO! YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO USE THOSE UNITS TOGETHER!"


@Quauchtemoc wrote:
Yes exactly, even if our HQ are most cost effective now 6HQ is too much just for CP

It's why we really needed to get our demi-HQs back.


@Gorefather wrote:
The Soul Thirst warlord trait looks really fun if you want to go all in on killy Archons. It looks a bit better than the Flayed Skull version IMO.

Indeed. I'm really looking forward to trying out that trait. Twisted Evil

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FuelDrop
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PostSubject: Re: Dex is out!   Sat Apr 07 2018, 12:58

Looks like Wracks can no longer take Hexrifles...
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withershadow
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PostSubject: Re: Dex is out!   Sat Apr 07 2018, 13:07

Acothyst still can.

I wouldn’t be as irate at Drazhar’s stupid aura if it worked with the stratagem.
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Alezya
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PostSubject: Re: Dex is out!   Sat Apr 07 2018, 13:10

@Quauchtemoc wrote:
@withershadow wrote:
Patrol detachments have to deal with a hefty HQ tax. It definitely works at the three patrol level if you’re allowed to take another detachment of flyers or whatever, but at the 6 patrol level... eh, 6HQs 6 Troops for 8 command points, or 4 HQs and 6 troops for two battalions and 6 command points. Not sure the extra two CPs are worth the extra 100-150 points worth of characters.

One thing I did notice, though, the poisoned tongue Kabal lets you re-roll 1s to wound on ALL melee attacks, not just poisoned ones like I read it at first. So Sslyth would be re-rolling hits, and re-rolling 1s to wound. Shame about them losing a wound, but I do think they are very respectable for a retinue.

Yes exactly, even if our HQ are most cost effective now 6HQ is too much just for CP

Why?

With Battalion, Outrider and Spearhead you already have 4-5 HQs for flat 8 CP.
Our troops gained a lot with our obsessions, so I hardly see how you could field minimum 3 troops (from the battalion).
6 HQs + 6 Troops for 8 CP, with the possibility of choosing quite a lot of different cults/kabals/coven, doesn't seem too much for flat 11 CP.

Even though I really doubt the TO will accept this Raiding stuff due to the generally accepted 3 detachments suggestions (which is quite fine, actually).

Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to convince anyone to play 6 patrol. I don't think I will play it anyway.
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Dalakh
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PostSubject: Re: Dex is out!   Sat Apr 07 2018, 13:14

@withershadow wrote:
Acothyst still can.

I wouldn’t be as irate at Drazhar’s stupid aura if it worked with the stratagem.

That would be so OP. But on the other hand a simple reroll hits of 1 aura for Drazhar combined with a 6+ trigger on Onslaught instead of 6 unmodified would have made Incubi and Drazhar another deal entirely while not being utterly broken. Real missed opportunity.

Also did you guys notice the nerf to the Cronos ? It used to be able to heal allies for 1HP per wound it caused in the fight phase and now it only heals 1HP per one or more wounds cause in the fight phase.

Unless the french index had a translation mistake there.
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Quauchtemoc
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PostSubject: Re: Dex is out!   Sat Apr 07 2018, 13:17

@Alezya wrote:
@Quauchtemoc wrote:
@withershadow wrote:
Patrol detachments have to deal with a hefty HQ tax. It definitely works at the three patrol level if you’re allowed to take another detachment of flyers or whatever, but at the 6 patrol level... eh, 6HQs 6 Troops for 8 command points, or 4 HQs and 6 troops for two battalions and 6 command points. Not sure the extra two CPs are worth the extra 100-150 points worth of characters.

One thing I did notice, though, the poisoned tongue Kabal lets you re-roll 1s to wound on ALL melee attacks, not just poisoned ones like I read it at first. So Sslyth would be re-rolling hits, and re-rolling 1s to wound. Shame about them losing a wound, but I do think they are very respectable for a retinue.

Yes exactly, even if our HQ are most cost effective now 6HQ is too much just for CP

Why?

With Battalion, Outrider and Spearhead you already have 4-5 HQs for flat 8 CP.
Our troops gained a lot with our obsessions, so I hardly see how you could field minimum 3 troops (from the battalion).
6 HQs + 6 Troops for 8 CP, with the possibility of choosing quite a lot of different cults/kabals/coven, doesn't seem too much for flat 11 CP.

Even though I really doubt the TO will accept this Raiding stuff due to the generally accepted 3 detachments suggestions (which is quite fine, actually).

Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to convince anyone to play 6 patrol. I don't think I will play it anyway.

The problem is you also have to take troups but yes thats a good point
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Alezya
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PostSubject: Re: Dex is out!   Sat Apr 07 2018, 13:23

@Dalakh wrote:


Also did you guys notice the nerf to the Cronos ? It used to be able to heal allies for 1HP per wound it caused in the fight phase and now it only heals 1HP per one or more wounds cause in the fight phase.

Unless the french index had a translation mistake there.

Index: Spirit probe: Reroll wound rolls of 1 for friendly Drukhari units within 6" of this model in the fight phase.
In addition, if a Cronos inflicts one or more wounds in the fight phase, you can pick a friendly drukhari unit within 6" of the cronos that is not a vehicle. The unit recovers 1 wound lost earlier.

Codex: Spirit probe: Reroll wound rolls of 1 for friendly Drukhari units within 6" of this model in the fight phase.
In addition, if a Cronos with a spirit probe inflicts one or more unsaved wounds in the fight phase, you can pick a friendly drukhari unit within 6" of the cronos that is not a vehicle. The unit recovers 1 wound.

Stays the same.
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Dex is out!   Sat Apr 07 2018, 13:51

Urien Rakarth is still disappointing.

His +1S aura is nice, but that's really all he brings over a regular Haemonculus. Aside from that, he has a crappy ranged weapon (the sort of thing that other special characters can do every turn, but he can only fire it once per battle), a decent weapon that can only be used with 1 attack, and then just basic poison weapons for the remaining attacks.

His abilities just seem to be a bit of a mess and also not really related to his fluff. For example, his fluff always spoke of 'a blade that could kill with the slightest scratch', but there's not even an attempt to represent that on his profile (even just a Poison Weapon with 2 damage would be something). Also, he's supposed to have these exceptional regenerative abilities, which are the whole reason for his deformed appearance . . . but he doesn't have the regeneration Warlord trait. What.

Just seems like a lot of odd choices were made with him.

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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: Dex is out!   Sat Apr 07 2018, 13:53

Urien is in a good spot if you use him right IMO. He has useful buffs and works well with the stratagems.

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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Dex is out!   Sat Apr 07 2018, 14:11

@TeenageAngst wrote:
Urien is in a good spot if you use him right IMO. He has useful buffs and works well with the stratagems.

He's not bad, he just seems to have diverged from his fluff.

I'm curious though - which stratagems are you thinking of? So far as I can see, he doesn't appear to work better with any of them than a regular Haemonculus.

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withershadow
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PostSubject: Re: Dex is out!   Sat Apr 07 2018, 15:45

Why would triggering doubles on 4+ be that OP? Dragoons can trigger TRIPLE hits on a 4+, and they hit harder than a Talos.

And are we reading the same stat lines? Urien has +1T, a better invulnerable save, cuts incoming damage in half, deals mortal wounds to units around him, and boosts S and Ld of Coven units. For 15 more points.

I don’t know what drugs if you folks are doing, but I want some.


Last edited by withershadow on Sat Apr 07 2018, 15:55; edited 1 time in total
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Dalakh
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PostSubject: Re: Dex is out!   Sat Apr 07 2018, 15:53

@withershadow wrote:
Why would that be OP? Dragoons can trigger TRIPLE hits on a 4+, and they hit harder than a Talos.

Because a 68 pts dragoon dishes 3 attacks vs 16 for a 80 pts MSU Incubi squad ??
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withershadow
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PostSubject: Re: Dex is out!   Sat Apr 07 2018, 16:01

And? An 80 point Wych squad puts out 41 at the same S (but no AP) without any stratagems. I don’t know, doesn’t seem that OP.

Especially if they gave Drazhar a better aura, so you were maxing out at doubles on 5+from turn 3 onwards only.
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Dex is out!   Sat Apr 07 2018, 16:14

Any thoughts on the Obsidian Veil artefact?

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Dalakh
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PostSubject: Re: Dex is out!   Sat Apr 07 2018, 16:31

@withershadow wrote:
And? An 80 point Wych squad puts out 41 at the same S (but no AP) without any stratagems. I don’t know, doesn’t seem that OP.

Especially if they gave Drazhar a better aura, so you were maxing out at doubles on 5+from turn 3 onwards only.

Yes dude, that's what I was saying. With a better aura on Drazhar it would have been 100% OK to have Onslaught on 6+ and overall much better.
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Bad-baden-baden
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PostSubject: Re: Dex is out!   Sat Apr 07 2018, 17:54

Am I blind, or did the court of the archon all lose the character keyword?
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Dex is out!   Sat Apr 07 2018, 18:04

@Bad-baden-baden wrote:
Am I blind, or did the court of the archon all lose the character keyword?

Nope. It's gone.

Maybe it's because of the new character rules they're testing? (Which would have prevented the Archon from hiding behind them.)

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John M
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PostSubject: Re: Dex is out!   Sat Apr 07 2018, 18:53

love all the new art, sad we only got Lelith's head though
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FuelDrop
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PostSubject: Re: Dex is out!   Sat Apr 07 2018, 23:18

Succubus, Lelith, and Drazhar are still rocking 1 damage weapons. I wouldn't be complaining if these guys were horde killers, but they're supposed to be duelists who hunt other characters. Just give the Glaive d3 damage and the other two Lethal Precision, and boom you are golden.
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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: Dex is out!   Sun Apr 08 2018, 00:04

My attempts to create a Brigade have run into a snag. Due to the fact that flyers are now their own unit entry and the weird interactions between beasts/court units and Beastmasters/Archons, filling slots is a chore.

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withershadow
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PostSubject: Re: Dex is out!   Sun Apr 08 2018, 00:07

Mandrakes and Scourges are your default choices for those slots.
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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: Dex is out!   Sun Apr 08 2018, 00:15

Mandrakes and Grotesques are unfortunately all I have to work with in that slot, and for FA, I prefer not to rely on Scourges since fitting a Tantalus in a Brigade is difficult.

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