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 And here is our codex...

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GrinNfool
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PostSubject: Re: And here is our codex...   Fri Apr 06 2018, 18:55

@Soulless Samurai wrote:
I do miss the days when a new codex would contain more units than the previous one, rather than fewer.  Rolling Eyes

@DevilDoll wrote:
Yes some things we needed did not make it (HQ speed, transport capacity, ranged defence etc.) but overall it seems like we got a solid codex...

To be honest, I'm less forgiving about the HQ/transport thing. Especially when they basically forced us to take extra HQs. ...
Given that they've removed another two units from our codex, I really don't think it's much to ask.  Neutral

I think it bugs me even more because they got so many other things right.
Eh the transport thing is only a minor inconvenience.  We have been dealing with it since BEFORE we had 8" move.  It would be nice but we have things we can do, from grotesques, to 5-9 mans in a raider, even webway if you really want to.  

I do think lamenting the trueborn and bloodbrides a bit amusing though.  We actually lost wyches not blood brides, they essentially just gave wyches the bloodbrides stat line, and a 6++, and dropped their cost to below wych levels.  I am fine if they want to make an elite our troop choice and give it lower cost than the old troop, granted this was needed to make them viable lol.  Trueborn being gone stings slightly more not because of the trueborn, but because it actually makes venoms worse by virtue of not having anything scary to put in them.  Scourges dropping to 12 means you now just use scourges in place of trueborn, and for 5 extra points you get 4+/6++, deepstrike, and 14" move.  Seems worth 5 points to me.  That and 10 mans getting 2 special AND a heavy, makes raiders far better.  You get a 10 kab squad with 10 wounds 2 blasters and a dark lance for 114 9 points cheaper than 5 trueborn.
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Khalyxidae hybristoma
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PostSubject: Re: And here is our codex...   Fri Apr 06 2018, 19:09

So listen guys, the transport HQ thing is gross and frustrating for a number of reasons:

It could have been fixed from several different angles (transport capacity, relics, taking our unit upgrades out of base 5/10, not making all of our HQs with buffs so that they're most best around units), all with small adjustments, and it hasn't for a long time, which rather smacks of something deliberate. Which is bullshit. It seems like something they could have but have continually refused to address.

But I gotta say - Doesn't really strike me as super fluffy that an archon would deign to hang out with any of their redshirts that they weren't actively murdering or having sex with. Like as a matter of course, both martially and socially. Wyches do kinda feel like they should be with their gals, but they've got the whole gladiatorial thing going, and a lot of work was done to try and make wyches more viable on their own. Haemys, well, they'd just chill with their favorites or whoever needs the T bonus most. Quickness was never their thing. They like to savor, right?

There are a slew of new mobility and deepstriking options - sure they aren't as cut-and-dry as 'your HQ now flies 14"' but there are plenty of ways to get your crap stuck in if you want it. Also, with several exceptions pretty much everything in our codex has never been cheaper (adjusting for inflation). And honestly, I feel like most commorites are egomaniacal and ostentatious enough to jump at the chance for a private jet filled with only their killiest dudes as soon as it's available and distance themselves from the chaff.

I feel like the answer is really to just start thinking like a goddamn baller and get a boat for your boys and a boat for your pimp if you can't fit 'em anywhere else useful. I bet you can afford it.

So yes, it's irritating for a lot of good reasons. But all of our HQs are a) supremely arrogant, deadly, and paranoid who b) think everyone else in the army is either plotting their death or worth less than the crap on their boots. Not super team players. Would I like an Arena Champion HQ, or to take 4 warriors with a blaster? Sure. But there's lots of other fun stuff I can try. Our crap is fractious, treacherous, and full of poisoned knives. It's how we roll. And there's more ways to put that together than ever before.

I'm really sick of every goddamn thread about the new book turning into people bitching about this. There is so much more useful crap to focus on.
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withershadow
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PostSubject: Re: And here is our codex...   Fri Apr 06 2018, 19:38

Good, your anguish sustains me.

It keeps coming up because it is a relevant point and makes little fluff sense. The "new" GW seems more open to feedback, and eventually, inevitably Drukhari will have some new models, so having this perceived range gap in the forefront makes it more likely that GW will address it. I know I am taking my Kabal to the October Warhammer Fest at the new Citadel, and will be bitching and moaning about this injustice to every GW employee I run across (and their corporate headquarters is there, so there will undoubtedly be some bigwigs keeping an eye on the pulse of their first ever huge NA event).

Sure, pure whining without constructive suggestions is annoying, but I see little of that here, and if any place is appropriate to discuss overarching faction issues, it is in a general discussion of a new Codex. Haywire vs. Blaster has come up in like 30 threads in the last 4 days, I don't see you in there having a conniption.

But never mind me, do go on.

/takes out the mirror and razor blade, and starts cutting the palpable nerdrage into neat lines
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Ubernoob1
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PostSubject: Re: And here is our codex...   Fri Apr 06 2018, 19:51

Sooo...on the line of "possible constructive ideas" what about an option for an actual "Venom Sky Chariot" since it's still being called that in certain places like some of the novels? Make a unit entry for at least the Archon, if not one or both of the other main HQs as well. No transport capacity but built in HQ stats like how the other chariot units work. Give it the character keyword like the necrons command barge so it could still be a warlord with trait, could hide behind other units with it having less than 10 wounds, etc. I think it'd be an interesting idea, would still represent the Archon riding a venom alone, would be a bit of a heralding back to 3e vect rules, and would be a new unit entry without actually requiring a brand new model.
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Crazy_Ivan
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PostSubject: Re: And here is our codex...   Fri Apr 06 2018, 19:57

Personally I'd like to see a tricked out raider that an archon can take with 10 spaces for his minions, and the same for the venom maybe with DL or DC as a loadout with space for 5 guys.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: And here is our codex...   Fri Apr 06 2018, 20:07

@Ubernoob1 wrote:
Sooo...on the line of "possible constructive ideas" what about an option for an actual "Venom Sky Chariot" since it's still being called that in certain places like some of the novels? Make a unit entry for at least the Archon, if not one or both of the other main HQs as well. No transport capacity but built in HQ stats like how the other chariot units work. Give it the character keyword like the necrons command barge so it could still be a warlord with trait, could hide behind other units with it having less than 10 wounds, etc. I think it'd be an interesting idea, would still represent the Archon riding a venom alone, would be a bit of a heralding back to 3e vect rules, and would be a new unit entry without actually requiring a brand new model.

I like that idea!
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withershadow
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PostSubject: Re: And here is our codex...   Fri Apr 06 2018, 20:08

You mean a Tantalus then? It can hold 15 of his minions and the Archon. Razz
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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: And here is our codex...   Fri Apr 06 2018, 20:13

@withershadow wrote:
You mean a Tantalus then? It can hold 15 of his minions and the Archon. Razz

Yes. Except with fewer wound, armour and weapon, to lower it's price to a reasonable level.
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: And here is our codex...   Fri Apr 06 2018, 20:42

@GrinNfool wrote:

I do think lamenting the trueborn and bloodbrides a bit amusing though.  We actually lost wyches not blood brides, they essentially just gave wyches the bloodbrides stat line, and a 6++, and dropped their cost to below wych levels.  I am fine if they want to make an elite our troop choice and give it lower cost than the old troop, granted this was needed to make them viable lol.

Okay, fine. But why did Bloodbrides have to go entirely? Surely they could have just made them elite versions of the new wyches?

@GrinNfool wrote:
 Trueborn being gone stings slightly more not because of the trueborn, but because it actually makes venoms worse by virtue of not having anything scary to put in them.

Agreed.

@GrinNfool wrote:
 Scourges dropping to 12 means you now just use scourges in place of trueborn, and for 5 extra points you get 4+/6++, deepstrike, and 14" move.  Seems worth 5 points to me.

Sure. But it's nice to actually have the choice, as opposed to losing yet more units from a codex that's already lost 5 special characters and at least 2 demi-HQ choices.

@GrinNfool wrote:
 You get a 10 kab squad with 10 wounds 2 blasters and a dark lance for 114 9 points cheaper than 5 trueborn.

Except that you're comparing Codex Kabalites to the ridiculously overcosted Trueborn in the index. Had GW actually bothered to put them in the codex, it's highly likely that they would have come down in points (honestly, they're only worth maybe 1-2pts more than basic Kabalites).

It would have also given us an actual Elites choice for Kabal, as opposed to just the weird, now-slotless Court models.

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Mikoneo
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PostSubject: Re: And here is our codex...   Fri Apr 06 2018, 21:18

I personally didn't use either trueborn or bloodbrides but I don't like the position their removal has put out elite slot in
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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: And here is our codex...   Fri Apr 06 2018, 23:03

I used trueborn, I now have a whole lot more kabalites with blasters than I'll ever need because of that but o well, I'll replace some of them with some other special weapons and repaint them as my standard kabalites, not a big deal. I know some people lament the loss of trueborn but it doesn't bother me too much, just pressing on full ahead without any index units (also let's face it, who ever used bloodbrides..)

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shadowseercB
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PostSubject: Re: And here is our codex...   Sat Apr 07 2018, 00:18

My special edition just came in the mail. I gotta say this book looks good.

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benmet
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PostSubject: Re: And here is our codex...   Sat Apr 07 2018, 00:43

I got the iBooks version. Can someone confirm for me that Lilith gets a dodge and it’s just been omitted from this version please.
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Ubernoob1
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PostSubject: Re: And here is our codex...   Sat Apr 07 2018, 00:52

@benmet wrote:
I got the iBooks version. Can someone confirm for me that Lilith gets a dodge and it’s just been omitted from this version please.

Yeah she still has her 3++ "quicksilver" dodge.

Also has anyone else noticed that poisoned weapons also only wound on a 6+ vs titanic units now? Sure, that isn't THAT big of a deal but...dang gargantuan creatures.
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Mikoneo
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PostSubject: Re: And here is our codex...   Sat Apr 07 2018, 00:52

My version States that she has a 3++. What I can't find on my version however is anything stating you need an archon to use the court models
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Ubernoob1
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PostSubject: Re: And here is our codex...   Sat Apr 07 2018, 00:56

@Mikoneo wrote:
My version States that she has a 3++. What I can't find on my version however is anything stating you need an archon to use the court models

Check the page where they start discussing the ObSec, raiding force, and obsessions. There is a side panel titled "matched play rules."
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benmet
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PostSubject: Re: And here is our codex...   Sat Apr 07 2018, 01:01

Cheers. I guess they’ll update it when they figure it out.
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Mikoneo
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PostSubject: Re: And here is our codex...   Sat Apr 07 2018, 01:01

Thank you ubernoob. My tablet doesn't seem to like loading the side notes yet
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Sess
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PostSubject: Re: And here is our codex...   Sat Apr 07 2018, 03:50

I know its not the same... but maybe make some sort of cool converted tantalus counts as model and use some sort of throne bits from other kits as a throne. Put an archon in it and you have a "pseudo-vect" at least in fluff anyways if you play kabal of the black heart. The 6" archon reroll bubble would be pretty big around a tantalus sized model.

Meh, just a random thought.
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withershadow
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PostSubject: Re: And here is our codex...   Sat Apr 07 2018, 04:23

Hmm, well, Imperial Guard have a stratagem that lets officers issue orders from inside a Chimera. A "Command Throne" stratagem that lets an Archon embarked in a vehicle to use his aura would be neat.
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Sess
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PostSubject: Re: And here is our codex...   Sat Apr 07 2018, 07:03

@withershadow wrote:
Hmm, well, Imperial Guard have a stratagem that lets officers issue orders from inside a Chimera.  A "Command Throne" stratagem that lets an Archon embarked in a vehicle to use his aura would be neat.

Oh right my bad, I forgot the tantalus doesn't project the archons aura but just makes a new one if your warlord is inside of it.
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Gelmir
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PostSubject: Re: And here is our codex...   Sat Apr 07 2018, 13:05

This dude in the video is confusing me.
A standard Archon is now 70 points, and comes with a Huskblade, right?
If the Huskblade is his standard equipment, you don't have to pay 6 points for the Huskblade right?
Of course, if you give him optional equipment, such as an Agonizer, you'd have to pay for that, but a standard Archon with Huskblade is 70, not 76 points, right? :/

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Alezya
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PostSubject: Re: And here is our codex...   Sat Apr 07 2018, 13:28

You pay for the Archon (70) and the equipment he comes with. If he comes with a Huskblade and a splinter pistol, he will cost 76 pts.
If he comes with an Agonizer and a blaster, he will cost 91 pts.
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John M
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PostSubject: Re: And here is our codex...   Sat Apr 07 2018, 15:15

the only bad thing I have heard is demi-klaives going walkabout
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withershadow
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PostSubject: Re: And here is our codex...   Sat Apr 07 2018, 16:15

@DevilDoll wrote:
@Olsol wrote:
I don't recall anything that increases an Aura ability to 12"

im quite sure i read that from 2-3 different sources... 6 inches is nothing if you want to buff vehicles Sad
Poisoned Tongue warlord trait gives you a 12” Ld aura, but not for any rerolls, just use your Ld.
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