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 What to do with Coven?

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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: What to do with Coven?   Thu Apr 05 2018, 16:01

I know this is probably going to sound like a silly question, but what do actually do with Coven?

I have a few Coven units, and I'd like to use them to make use of Alliance of Agony.

The thing is, I don't really know what to do with them. Wyches and Reavers have a similar style to Kabal (fast, fragile, just with a greater emphasis on melee).

However, Coven seem rather out of place. They're not fast and it seems that they don't even want to be in transports (so that they can use the Haemonculus' aura). It seems all they do is just slowly lumber up the battlefield. Is that right?

If so, any advice on how to use them alongside the much-faster Cult/Kabal units?

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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: What to do with Coven?   Thu Apr 05 2018, 16:41

There are several things you want to do with your coven. It all depend of the coven you use.

PoF: You can use 1 or 2 20wrack unit to protect your backfield, hold your objective on the first turns. Then, use black cornucopians to redeploy your wracks, once your opponent used his deep strike options.

Dark creed: screaming jet 2-3 raiders with 2 5wracks units at several places of the battlefield. Next turn, get out of the raider, move closer. Then, in the shooting phase, shoot with ravagers at units 6'' from your moral bubble.
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: What to do with Coven?   Thu Apr 05 2018, 17:05

The best use of Coven is to spam CP with that broken WL trait.

The other best use for Coven is to affiliate your Tantalus/Reaper and use the sniper stratagem on it.

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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: What to do with Coven?   Thu Apr 05 2018, 17:08

@Mppqlmd wrote:
The best use of Coven is to spam CP with that broken WL trait.

lol!

@Mppqlmd wrote:
The other best use for Coven is to affiliate your Tantalus/Reaper and use the sniper stratagem on it.

What if you don't happen to own a Tantalus or Reaper? pale

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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: What to do with Coven?   Thu Apr 05 2018, 17:28

Ossefactors got super cheap and wracks are now super durable Smile

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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: What to do with Coven?   Thu Apr 05 2018, 17:30

I think wracks will be solid now. T5 with a haemonculus and +4 invul with prophets of flesh is actually tougher than our vehicles, so I think they will be solid as objective holders or as a tarpit unit. Plus with their toughness I think they can walk up the board just fine, save my raiders for kabalites and wyches. Coven units are the one sort of tough units we have, so I plan on using that to my advantage. We'll see how that actually goes though, will test it out in my game on Saturday.

@dumpeal: can't actually take a unit of 20 wracks, their unit size is 10 max, which is a shame since 20 wracks might actually do well using the black cornucopians stratagem. We'll see if that changes with the codex.




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Chippen
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PostSubject: Re: What to do with Coven?   Thu Apr 05 2018, 18:23

Screening with Wracks, at least for me. I'll probably have a Battalion of Prophets with 2 Haemies, 2 min squads of Wracks, and one big blob if I can afford it, with as many Ossefactors as I can afford. Screen until the big blob gets low on models, then pop a Stratagem and put them somewhere else.

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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: What to do with Coven?   Thu Apr 05 2018, 19:04

Yeah I'm hoping we can take units of 20, recycling a unit that big with the stratagem would be pretty sweet, and I don't feel like moral would be a big issue considering how tough they are. Also I'm not 100% sure on the pts cost for ossefactors vs liquifier guns but I feel like the ossefactor is more useful for a footslogging unit, that way at least it will be contributing a couple wounds here and there while walking up the board.

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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: What to do with Coven?   Thu Apr 05 2018, 20:11

What about Grotesques, Talos and/or Cronos?

Or is Wracks and more Wracks the way to go? Razz

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PostSubject: Re: What to do with Coven?   Thu Apr 05 2018, 20:23

I don't know about changes to those, I only know about Wracks so far. If their changes make them good, sure I'll take them. I just have a hard time seeing them beat out Kabal and Cult stuff in terms of output.

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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: What to do with Coven?   Thu Apr 05 2018, 20:27

@Soulless Samurai wrote:
What about Grotesques, Talos and/or Cronos?

Or is Wracks and more Wracks the way to go? Razz

Grotesques lack a way to get them more durable. I think they are 4 wounds, now? On a multi-damage game, it's not that much. Especially since the toughness mean near nothing, now. Grotesque should be T7, 7W to be as resiliant as they were. (7W to prevent a lascannon from 1-shotting them)
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PostSubject: Re: What to do with Coven?   Thu Apr 05 2018, 20:59

@Lord Asvaldir wrote:
Yeah I'm hoping we can take units of 20, recycling a unit that big with the stratagem would be pretty sweet, and I don't feel like moral would be a big issue considering how tough they are. Also I'm not 100% sure on the pts cost for ossefactors vs liquifier guns but I feel like the ossefactor is more useful for a footslogging unit, that way at least it will be contributing a couple wounds here and there while walking up the board.  

max wracks per unit is 10 Sad
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badgergrub
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PostSubject: Re: What to do with Coven?   Thu Apr 05 2018, 21:25

Actually I thought I had heard somewhere that coven can stack the toughness buff. I'll double check with the folks on Splintermind. In the index, Master of Pain says to add 1 to the toughness of coven units within one or more models with this ability. I believe the "or more models..." part of the wording is gone in the codex.

So essentially, you're bringing haemys to generate CPs for you, but on top of that, they'll also buff everything to T8 or T9. If this is true, I don't believe it'll stand. For now though, coven is good again Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: What to do with Coven?   Thu Apr 05 2018, 22:58

10 Grots+Urien in a webway and you will have one of the stronges unit in the entire game for their costs.
For 1 CP they got +1 to PfP, which means reroll for charging at turn 1.


Other than that, Talos are great now, pretty beefy and they can kill something in melee...finally!

Wracks too are fun, anyway.
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Faitherun
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PostSubject: Re: What to do with Coven?   Fri Apr 06 2018, 01:26

Ossefactors are 7 pts
Liqufiers are 11.

I really really hope the Liquifer is at least str 4.
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PostSubject: Re: What to do with Coven?   Fri Apr 06 2018, 03:21

@Daspien wrote:
@Lord Asvaldir wrote:
Yeah I'm hoping we can take units of 20, recycling a unit that big with the stratagem would be pretty sweet, and I don't feel like moral would be a big issue considering how tough they are. Also I'm not 100% sure on the pts cost for ossefactors vs liquifier guns but I feel like the ossefactor is more useful for a footslogging unit, that way at least it will be contributing a couple wounds here and there while walking up the board.  

max wracks per unit is 10 Sad

I'm well aware, but that's why I mentioned I hope the max unit size is increased to 20. With the black cornucopians stratagem they will be very solid.

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PostSubject: Re: What to do with Coven?   Fri Apr 06 2018, 04:54

I think a relatively small on-foot detachment of Coven units (Wracks, Grotesques, Talos, Urien) gives you a really solid anvil for our standards. Urien gives out a +1 S, +1Ld bubble with his +1T so your Talos will be swinging and S8 even if you use Macroscalpels. S6 Grotesques might be good too.

4++ invulnerable saves with the option of rerolling 1s with stratagems to have them regain wounds or appear on the board at full strength make for a nice distraction (since they actually could do damage if your opponent ignored them) while the rest of your army shoots them apart?
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