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FrankyMcShanky
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PostSubject: Re: New best loadout for Scourges   Wed Apr 11 2018, 19:04

@Lord Asvaldir wrote:
Nah I stick by my statement. You wouldn't want to use haywire vs infantry because shredders are so much better, so in so that game vs nids you'd ideally want to switch out the haywire blasters.

That being said I like haywire, I think it's very good against vehicles. Just not gonna get much mileage without vehicles to deal with.

I didn't realize any competitive formats allowed list tailoring.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: New best loadout for Scourges   Wed Apr 11 2018, 19:10

@FrankyMcShanky wrote:
@Lord Asvaldir wrote:
Nah I stick by my statement. You wouldn't want to use haywire vs infantry because shredders are so much better, so in so that game vs nids you'd ideally want to switch out the haywire blasters.

That being said I like haywire, I think it's very good against vehicles. Just not gonna get much mileage without vehicles to deal with.

I didn't realize any competitive formats allowed list tailoring.  

Some do, and many are asking for top tournaments to do this (150-250pts 1-2 units able to change, same slot change,stuff like that).

After being in tournaments for other games, and seeing a large AOS tournament do this, its clear 40k tournaments need it to help fix this crap meta circle we are in.


Example:
We play DE, we see is last list against his last opponent was IG tank, our 1 unit is to swap out is Shredder Scourges for HWB scourges.

Our next game is Tyranids (Dont need to even look at the list) out 1 unit to swap out is HWB Scourges to Shredder Scourges


Its something ive been asking for, for a long time and more now than ever many are asking for it too.

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FrankyMcShanky
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PostSubject: Re: New best loadout for Scourges   Wed Apr 11 2018, 19:12

@amishprn86 wrote:
@FrankyMcShanky wrote:
@Lord Asvaldir wrote:
Nah I stick by my statement. You wouldn't want to use haywire vs infantry because shredders are so much better, so in so that game vs nids you'd ideally want to switch out the haywire blasters.

That being said I like haywire, I think it's very good against vehicles. Just not gonna get much mileage without vehicles to deal with.

I didn't realize any competitive formats allowed list tailoring.  

Some do, and many are asking for top tournaments to do this (150-250pts 1-2 units able to change, same slot change,stuff like that).

After being in tournaments for other games, and seeing a large AOS tournament do this, its clear 40k tournaments need it to help fix this crap meta circle we are in.
.

That's really cool. I love it.
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Sacredsilence
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PostSubject: Re: New best loadout for Scourges   Mon Apr 16 2018, 10:49

Personally I really like shardcarbines. At 120pts you've got 10 bodies, deepstrike and movement with no penalty. I get why the special weapons load outs make them fantastic, versitile units, but given that warriors, tanks, fliers etc all have the ability to fiel a lot of anti-tank, I feel like you get a lot out of the standard unit. Thoughts? Just getting back into list writing to prepare for my new army, but want to add a lot of scourge and all my troops have blasters, air-wing with lances etc. 30 poisoned shots dropping from the sky doesn't seem like a bad investment, particularly for monster/character hunting.
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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: New best loadout for Scourges   Mon Apr 16 2018, 11:06

My biggest issue with 10 man units of Scourges is that they can actually be quite tricky to fit onto the board if you want to deep strike them, especially if it's covered in heavy terrain and your opponent's bubble wrapping well.

They're a great unit on paper but I think in practice they don't work out so well.
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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: New best loadout for Scourges   Mon Apr 16 2018, 16:39

I use 2 5 mans with carbines, don't really see any need to make them 10 mans. Gets rid of the tricky to place issue and gives me more flexibility with where I want my scourges and when.

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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: New best loadout for Scourges   Mon Apr 16 2018, 17:24

@Lord Asvaldir wrote:
I use 2 5 mans with carbines, don't really see any need to make them 10 mans. Gets rid of the tricky to place issue and gives me more flexibility with where I want my scourges and when.

The only point in making them 10 is the amount of drops you are DSing in your army. But otherwise yes, MSU for the win.

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Barrywise
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PostSubject: Re: New best loadout for Scourges   Tue Apr 17 2018, 06:48

@FrankyMcShanky wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
@FrankyMcShanky wrote:
@Lord Asvaldir wrote:
Nah I stick by my statement. You wouldn't want to use haywire vs infantry because shredders are so much better, so in so that game vs nids you'd ideally want to switch out the haywire blasters.

That being said I like haywire, I think it's very good against vehicles. Just not gonna get much mileage without vehicles to deal with.

I didn't realize any competitive formats allowed list tailoring.  

Some do, and many are asking for top tournaments to do this (150-250pts 1-2 units able to change, same slot change,stuff like that).

After being in tournaments for other games, and seeing a large AOS tournament do this, its clear 40k tournaments need it to help fix this crap meta circle we are in.
.

That's really cool.  I love it.

Hoh. I didn't know that was a thing, that's pretty cool. Did you ever see the post I made about making upgrades change-able in a competitive setting? With our new Codex I'll have to rework it and make a new post for it. freakin' school, holding me back from what I truly love. Evil or Very Mad

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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: New best loadout for Scourges   Tue Apr 17 2018, 06:56

With the new deepstrike rules faq, range is going to be key on scourges. Haywire is nice, but there could be a use to play dark lances again on backfield Scourges.

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shadowseercB
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PostSubject: Re: New best loadout for Scourges   Tue Apr 17 2018, 08:06

@Mppqlmd wrote:
With the new deepstrike rules faq, range is going to be key on scourges. Haywire is nice, but there could be a use to play dark lances again on backfield Scourges.

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Are you talking about the beta rules?

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: New best loadout for Scourges   Tue Apr 17 2018, 08:26

Yes, turn 1 DS is only in your Deployment zone now (DZ)

You can still DS turn 2 and 3 outside of your DZ, but it limited scourge AI role for turn 1.

Armies like Guard, DG, Admech, etc.. just got a LOT better IMO. As they relay on sustain 2-3 turns of shooting over turn 1-2 alpha strike.

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PostSubject: Re: New best loadout for Scourges   Tue Apr 17 2018, 08:54

@Mppqlmd wrote:
With the new deepstrike rules faq, range is going to be key on scourges. Haywire is nice, but there could be a use to play dark lances again on backfield Scourges.

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I agree...

I hate these FaQ. I loved the dynamicity of the 8' edition....where now all is come back into a boring gunlines battle.
Hope that these alpha will remaign alpha.
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: New best loadout for Scourges   Tue Apr 17 2018, 14:58

I think 8th edition is wayyyy too much decided by the initiative roll. Tuning down the alpha striking is a good thing. But it will affect the meta, and I wouldn't be surprised to see tau be played more in a meta without too much ds.

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Quauchtemoc
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PostSubject: Re: New best loadout for Scourges   Tue Apr 17 2018, 15:13

@Mppqlmd wrote:
I think 8th edition is wayyyy too much decided by the initiative roll. Tuning down the alpha striking is a good thing. But it will affect the meta, and I wouldn't be surprised to see tau be played more in a meta without too much ds.

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I dont understand why they changed the "get first turn automaticaly" rule . It was a simple way to play around that problem with the listbuilding
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: New best loadout for Scourges   Tue Apr 17 2018, 15:17

Because playing 4 imperial knights just to have first turn isn't really a fun approach to the game.
Going first should be a perk, not a winning condition. Then the mecanic that decides who goes first would be less important.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: New best loadout for Scourges   Tue Apr 17 2018, 15:18

@Quauchtemoc wrote:
@Mppqlmd wrote:
I think 8th edition is wayyyy too much decided by the initiative roll. Tuning down the alpha striking is a good thing. But it will affect the meta, and I wouldn't be surprised to see tau be played more in a meta without too much ds.

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I dont understand why they changed the "get first turn automaticaly" rule . It was a simple way to play around that problem with the listbuilding

It just resulted in lists that had as few units and as much firepower as possible which really disadvantaged certain armies.

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Quauchtemoc
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PostSubject: Re: New best loadout for Scourges   Tue Apr 17 2018, 15:19

Ah yes, Imperial Knigth army was a mistake anyway but yes you are rigth
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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: New best loadout for Scourges   Tue Apr 17 2018, 15:21

@Mppqlmd wrote:
I think 8th edition is wayyyy too much decided by the initiative roll. Tuning down the alpha striking is a good thing. But it will affect the meta, and I wouldn't be surprised to see tau be played more in a meta without too much ds.

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It is a FaQ for friendly games. Competitive players knows how to play around an alpha strike :-/

I hate it
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: New best loadout for Scourges   Tue Apr 17 2018, 15:40

Quote :
It is a FaQ for friendly games. Competitive players knows how to play around an alpha strike :-/

The entire competitive meta is set around alpha striking.

Do you have enough alpha striking ? No ? Go home boy. It's insane that every list had to include either bubble-wrapping or defensive DSing.

But FAQs are never for friendly games. If something is toxic to your friendly games, you create a homerule. FAQs are fixes to help create a sane official meta.

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PostSubject: Re: New best loadout for Scourges   Tue Apr 17 2018, 17:18

@Mppqlmd wrote:
Quote :
It is a FaQ for friendly games. Competitive players knows how to play around an alpha strike :-/

The entire competitive meta is set around alpha striking.

Do you have enough alpha striking ? No ? Go home boy. It's insane that every list had to include either bubble-wrapping or defensive DSing.

But FAQs are never for friendly games. If something is toxic to your friendly games, you create a homerule. FAQs are fixes to help create a sane official meta.

I kinda "agree", but in half. The alphastrike in tournament is nearly mandatory because you've not enough time and most of the times the game end in turn 3. Or almost I see this trend in some torunaments.
But Alpha vs Alpha is great! The first who deploy takes a great risk. So it's a mind challenge, you have to bait some of your opponents units, or choose to deploy something more during deployment phase etc.

Now it risk to become a "sit and shoot" game like in the past. I don't know, I'm shred in half: I can see something good in this FaQ, but I'm even afraid about some other stuff :-/
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Quauchtemoc
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PostSubject: Re: New best loadout for Scourges   Tue Apr 17 2018, 17:32

Anyway its the nerf of the DS is too hard they will probably change it again in september
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shadowseercB
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PostSubject: Re: New best loadout for Scourges   Tue Apr 17 2018, 17:55

What is nice is Beta rules do not have to be used.  They are just test rules they are considering to add to the next FAQ/chapter approved book.  In other words it is not mandatory to use them so not a big deal.  GW seems to be doing their homework and if they continue to do so they will see players are not using them/do not like them.

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PostSubject: Re: New best loadout for Scourges   Tue Apr 17 2018, 21:32

@shadowseercB wrote:
What is nice is Beta rules do not have to be used.  They are just test rules they are considering to add to the next FAQ/chapter approved book.  In other words it is not mandatory to use them so not a big deal.  GW seems to be doing their homework and if they continue to do so they will see players are not using them/do not like them.

No they do not have to be used. But might as well get used to them being used. They do need to be play tested after all. And odds are lost of those rules will change over

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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: New best loadout for Scourges   Wed Apr 18 2018, 00:27

Exactly. So Since the rule of 3 may well become the norm: optimum TAC Trio?

2x[4xHaywire]
1x[4xShredder]

?
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PostSubject: Re: New best loadout for Scourges   Wed Apr 18 2018, 00:28

probably after the deepstrike changes and limits to number of units i'll probably run them dark lances.
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