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 New best loadout for Scourges

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Zumikito
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PostSubject: New best loadout for Scourges   Wed Apr 04 2018, 11:06

Hey

so with changes to blaster I thought that it is a no-brainer...BUT also new shredder looks sexy!

So with changes to weapons that Scourges can take, what would be best AT loadout and best AI loadout?

My main dilemma is between giving them shredders vs adding just more vanilla scourges, what would be more effective in this case?
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: New best loadout for Scourges   Wed Apr 04 2018, 11:35

Per point, 5 Scourges with 4 Shredders is quite a bit more efficient than 5 vanilla Scourges against MEQ, GEQ and TEQ. I didn't run the numbers for other targets though but I'd imagine higher T targets would favour the vanilla Scourges (unless they are vehicles).

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LordSplata
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PostSubject: Re: New best loadout for Scourges   Wed Apr 04 2018, 12:07

vanilla have the better range, but shredders mulch stuff (and then are so close to the enemy that it might be the end for them).

Shredder warriors (20 pts) vs MEQ do, point for point, 82% more damage than a splinter carbine scourge (12 pts).
That is 1.04 wounds vs 0.33 wounds.
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: New best loadout for Scourges   Wed Apr 04 2018, 12:19

The best AT load out, points for points, is HWB. But it only works against tanks.

The best infantry load out is shredders.

The best universal load out is blasters, but it's the most expensive.

Vanilla and DL look a lot less appealing.

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|Meavar
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PostSubject: Re: New best loadout for Scourges   Wed Apr 04 2018, 12:53

Jeah pretty much the oposite from before XD

I like it actually. It makes more sense than just use as much DL and dissies everywhere.
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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: New best loadout for Scourges   Wed Apr 04 2018, 13:42

I'll run them with blasters most of the times. Just because I can get a lot of anti infantry between melee and poisons, while I don't wanna play all my antitank into Ravagers.
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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: New best loadout for Scourges   Wed Apr 04 2018, 13:49

@Mppqlmd wrote:
The best AT load out, points for points, is HWB. But it only works against tanks.

The best infantry load out is shredders.

The best universal load out is blasters, but it's the most expensive.

Vanilla and DL look a lot less appealing.

I think there's going to be a niche for Shardcarbines and Dark Lances. Blasters are great now but against opponents that bubble wrap well it'll be difficult to get them in range of valuable targets via deep striking, so that's a situation where the increased range of the Dark Lances could shine.

Vanilla Scourges are going to make for dirt cheap objective grabbers. If nothing else they'll also work as bonus protection by taking them as additional bodies.
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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: New best loadout for Scourges   Wed Apr 04 2018, 14:11

@Burnage wrote:
@Mppqlmd wrote:
The best AT load out, points for points, is HWB. But it only works against tanks.

The best infantry load out is shredders.

The best universal load out is blasters, but it's the most expensive.

Vanilla and DL look a lot less appealing.

I think there's going to be a niche for Shardcarbines and Dark Lances. Blasters are great now but against opponents that bubble wrap well it'll be difficult to get them in range of valuable targets via deep striking, so that's a situation where the increased range of the Dark Lances could shine.

Vanilla Scourges are going to make for dirt cheap objective grabbers. If nothing else they'll also work as bonus protection by taking them as additional bodies.

You can't give scourge obsessions. So, no increased range, sadly.
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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: New best loadout for Scourges   Wed Apr 04 2018, 14:16

@dumpeal wrote:
@Burnage wrote:
@Mppqlmd wrote:
The best AT load out, points for points, is HWB. But it only works against tanks.

The best infantry load out is shredders.

The best universal load out is blasters, but it's the most expensive.

Vanilla and DL look a lot less appealing.

I think there's going to be a niche for Shardcarbines and Dark Lances. Blasters are great now but against opponents that bubble wrap well it'll be difficult to get them in range of valuable targets via deep striking, so that's a situation where the increased range of the Dark Lances could shine.

Vanilla Scourges are going to make for dirt cheap objective grabbers. If nothing else they'll also work as bonus protection by taking them as additional bodies.

You can't give scourge obsessions. So, no increased range, sadly.

I mean that Dark Lances have literally double the range of Blasters. I don't think that's changed in the Codex?

Deep striking within 36 inches of a priority target is much easier than deep striking within 18 inches of one.
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: New best loadout for Scourges   Wed Apr 04 2018, 14:18

But you get -1 to hit when deepstriking.

I like HWB. Range 24, no malus to hit, and more damage than blasters/DL against heavy vehicles for a cheaper price.

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LordSplata
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PostSubject: Re: New best loadout for Scourges   Wed Apr 04 2018, 14:23

To be clear though. "Heavy Vehicles" are T8 or ones with an invulnerable save. Otherwise the darklight is the same or better than HWB
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: New best loadout for Scourges   Wed Apr 04 2018, 14:29

Blasters are looking best to me.

HWB are good against heavy vehicles, but that's a bit too specific for my tastes.

Shredders are good now, but I'd rather have them on Kabalites.

Meanwhile, Trueborn are gone (so no more spamming Darklight with them), and the Disintegrator has become a much more attractive option for Raiders, Ravagers and such.

Hence, I think Scourges are looking like the best source of massed Darklight.

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PostSubject: Re: New best loadout for Scourges   Wed Apr 04 2018, 15:14

Any intel on Heat lances yet?
I have three squads of 5 with 4 Heat lances/Haywire blasters/Blasters respectively.
I guess Dark lances are better elsewhere with Obsessions which is good for me?

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Dizzie
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PostSubject: Re: New best loadout for Scourges   Wed Apr 04 2018, 15:31


Heat lances if i remember correctly are same stats but 12pts, they are in a sore spot atm being melta and only str 6.
as for scourges i can only see them being used as vanilla, HWB's or blasters, its my opinion getting them in range for shredders is likely to get them killed.
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PostSubject: Re: New best loadout for Scourges   Wed Apr 04 2018, 17:10

@Soulless Samurai wrote:
Blasters are looking best to me.

HWB are good against heavy vehicles, but that's a bit too specific for my tastes.

Shredders are good now, but I'd rather have them on Kabalites.

Meanwhile, Trueborn are gone (so no more spamming Darklight with them), and the Disintegrator has become a much more attractive option for Raiders, Ravagers and such.

Hence, I think Scourges are looking like the best source of massed Darklight.
Trueborn are gone? Did I miss something?

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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: New best loadout for Scourges   Wed Apr 04 2018, 17:11

Yep. Trueborns and Bloodbrides are no longer a codex entry.

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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: New best loadout for Scourges   Wed Apr 04 2018, 17:13

@Mppqlmd wrote:
But you get -1 to hit when deepstriking.

Yes, that's the trade-off. It's admittedly situational but I'd rather take -1 to hit than be unable to hit my target entirely due to being out of range.
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PostSubject: Re: New best loadout for Scourges   Wed Apr 04 2018, 17:19

Are scourge really worth it in the new codex? They can't have obsessions and a single screaming jet raider full of kabalite deliver as much dark light weapon as a scourge unit. (2 blaster, 1 dark lance from the unit and 1 disintegrator from the raider)
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: New best loadout for Scourges   Wed Apr 04 2018, 17:23

- Scourges don't cost CP to deep strike

- they have access to a lot more than blasters (HWB is gold)

- they are super cheap (5 scourges + 4 HWB is around 100pts)

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PostSubject: Re: New best loadout for Scourges   Wed Apr 04 2018, 17:25

@Dumpeal That unit also costs 65- 70 points more than the scourge unit and one of the lance shots is hitting on a 4+. They also require a command point to deepstrike and it's 2 units in reserve instead of 1, so you need more on board. However, they obviously have a pretty big advantage in terms of versatility and survivability. So Scourges definitely have some kind of place.
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PostSubject: Re: New best loadout for Scourges   Wed Apr 04 2018, 17:26

@dumpeal wrote:
Are scourge really worth it in the new codex? They can't have obsessions and a single screaming jet raider full of kabalite deliver as much dark light weapon as a scourge unit. (2 blaster, 1 dark lance from the unit and 1 disintegrator from the raider)

Shouldn't the Raider be using a Dark Lance as well so that both have 4 darklight weapons?

Anyway, the Scourges are 128pts, whilst the Raider squad (assuming a Dark Lance) is ~200pts. Also, if it moves at all, then one of those Dark Lances will be hitting on 4s. Also, the Scourges can freely deep strike.


I'd have thought a better comparison would involve a Ravager.


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PostSubject: Re: New best loadout for Scourges   Wed Apr 04 2018, 17:49

Besides, Scourge models are freaking awesome. :3

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PostSubject: Re: New best loadout for Scourges   Wed Apr 04 2018, 17:55

@Gelmir wrote:
Besides, Scourge models are freaking awesome. :3

Agreed. I love their wings, I love their helmets, I love the clawed feet on one or two of them.

Makes me wish we had a Scourge HQ.
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PostSubject: Re: New best loadout for Scourges   Wed Apr 04 2018, 18:13

Frankly, I'd be happy with any fast attack HQ at the moment, but yeah, a Scourge HQ would be awesome!

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PostSubject: Re: New best loadout for Scourges   Wed Apr 04 2018, 22:13

I like the idea of the shredders, especially with the -1 ap. The haywires might be back baby! 4 D3 shots move + shoot and the added range might be their ticket for success... also helps bypass great saves and invuls on certain vehicles.
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