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 Cold-blooded Bodyguard fucntion

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shadowseercB
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PostSubject: Cold-blooded Bodyguard fucntion   Sun Apr 01 2018, 23:33

I am wondering how some players interpret the SSlyth rule, "Cold-blooded Bodyguard" from a RAW point of view not a RAI.  If the archon is wounded and successfully transfers the wound the the slyth, according the wording would he only suffer one mortal wound?  It never mentions damage only a mortal wound and does not state suffering a mortal wound = to the damage taken.
How do you interpret the RAW?

EDIT: I mean if the Archon is wounded by a D6 damage weapon and the wound is transfered to a SSlyth would you even roll a D6 for the damage? Because it seems like it would stop there otherwise it would say suffers mortal wounds equal to the damage caused. I have not run into this situation before I am just wondering according to RAW.

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shadowseercB
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PostSubject: Re: Cold-blooded Bodyguard fucntion   Mon Apr 02 2018, 00:02

Had to edit question.

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Hen Tai, the tentacle guy
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PostSubject: Re: Cold-blooded Bodyguard fucntion   Mon Apr 02 2018, 00:08

From my interpretation, you roll a d6 for dmg on the sslyth.

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shadowseercB
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PostSubject: Re: Cold-blooded Bodyguard fucntion   Mon Apr 02 2018, 01:16

I just realized maybe I have the order of operation incorrect.   Archon looses a wound, roll the D6 damage, then roll the 2+ Sslyth Intercepts?

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Ubernoob1
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PostSubject: Re: Cold-blooded Bodyguard fucntion   Mon Apr 02 2018, 01:33

@shadowseercB wrote:
I just realized maybe I have the order of operation incorrect.  Do we roll a 2+ for each damage dealt meaning we roll a 2+ for each wound recieved from a single D6?  For example Archon looses a wound roll the D6 damage then roll the 2+ Sslyth Intercepts?

I believe you have it right here. Each wound lost, not each to wound roll made against the Archon. So if a d6 damage weapon bypasses his saves and causes say 4 wounds, that's 4 2+ rolls you'd need to make to transfer each into a mortal wound on the Sslyth. Now in theory you should still be able to make the power from pain's 6+ "save" as well before transferring just to see if you can get anymore. Unfortunately this still means the Shadowfield has been broken...
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Cold-blooded Bodyguard fucntion   Mon Apr 02 2018, 10:30

The transfer happens on a 2+? So basically you got another shadow field.
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DevilDoll
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PostSubject: Re: Cold-blooded Bodyguard fucntion   Thu May 10 2018, 17:01

I'm totally confused about it as well... The way I read it if you loose let's say 3 wounds from a d6 weapon then the sslyth rolls 3 dice and for each 2+ he intercepts...
Now what i find strange is that the wording is "intercepts the hit" ... Does that mean that the hit caused 3 damage and you roll once and in a 2+ the sslyth takes all the damage and only takes a mortal wound..?
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PostSubject: Re: Cold-blooded Bodyguard fucntion   Thu May 10 2018, 17:03

@Ubernoob1 wrote:
@shadowseercB wrote:
I just realized maybe I have the order of operation incorrect.  Do we roll a 2+ for each damage dealt meaning we roll a 2+ for each wound recieved from a single D6?  For example Archon looses a wound roll the D6 damage then roll the 2+ Sslyth Intercepts?

I believe you have it right here. Each wound lost, not each to wound roll made against the Archon. So if a d6 damage weapon bypasses his saves and causes say 4 wounds, that's 4 2+ rolls you'd need to make to transfer each into a mortal wound on the Sslyth. Now in theory you should still be able to make the power from pain's 6+ "save" as well before transferring just to see if you can get anymore. Unfortunately this still means the Shadowfield has been broken...

Are you sure about that? To my knowledge, if our archon took a blaster shot, failing the shadowfield but succeeding on the Cold Blooded Save, it would count not as D6 wounds but as ONE wound that deals D6 damage, in which case the sslyth would only take a single mortal wound.
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Kantalla
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PostSubject: Re: Cold-blooded Bodyguard fucntion   Thu May 10 2018, 21:54

It's interesting to compare the wording of the T'au rule, where multi damage gets taken by a drone as a single mortal wound and the Sslyth rule:

Sslyth:
Roll a D6 each time a friendly <KABAL> Archon loses a wound whilst they are within 3" of this model; on a 2+ this model intercepts the hit - the Archon does not lose a wound but this model suffers a mortal wound.

Drones:
If a <SEPT> INFANTRY or <SEPT> BATTLESUIT unit within 3" of a friendly <SEPT> DRONES unit is wounded by an enemy attack, roll a D6. On a 2+ you can allocate that wound to the Drones unit instead of the target. If you do, that Drones unit suffers a mortal wound instead of the normal damage.

For the Drones the rule is fairly clear, that you can intercept the attack when the target is wounded, and multiple damage is reduced to a single wound.

For the Sslyth you can intercept once the Archon loses a wound. That could be interpreted in two ways:
1) Archon has failed a save
2) Archon has failed their FNP roll

In the first instance, multiple damage would not yet be determined before the Sslyth intercepts and takes a mortal wound. In the second case, the damage is rolled before the FNP saves are made, so the Sslyth(s) would need to intercept each damage individually (although both the Archon and Sslyth would get a FNP roll against the attack).

I assumed the second case is correct, but its not totally clear.

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DevilDoll
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PostSubject: Re: Cold-blooded Bodyguard fucntion   Thu May 10 2018, 22:27

so noone actually has a clue how this is supposed to work we are all just assuming stuff and everyone plays it in their own way... great ^_^
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Cold-blooded Bodyguard fucntion   Thu May 10 2018, 23:50

Inured to Suffering and Cold-blooded Bodyguard both trigger when the Archon 'loses a wound'. As per the Sequencing rule, when this happens during the game, the player whose turn it is chooses the order.

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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: Cold-blooded Bodyguard fucntion   Fri May 11 2018, 18:53

@Count Adhemar wrote:
Inured to Suffering and Cold-blooded Bodyguard both trigger when the Archon 'loses a wound'. As per the Sequencing rule, when this happens during the game, the player whose turn it is chooses the order.

So, let's say an archon in a Black Heart detachment (which includes the Sslyth) takes a blaster hit. He fails his shadowfield save. The blaster does 3 damage. Can the archon then make his inured to suffering rolls, transfer any damage that doesn't get negated to the Sslyth (on a 2+ per wound), and then have the Sslyth make inured to suffering rolls on the resulting mortal wounds from that?
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Kantalla
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PostSubject: Re: Cold-blooded Bodyguard fucntion   Fri May 11 2018, 23:22

krayd - depends what 'loses a wound' means.

It could mean either:

1) The Archon has failed a save (Shadowfield or armour) and therefore has at least one wound deducted. This would be before rolling for damage, so if this is the right interpretation, then the Sslyth would take a single mortal wound if you could roll a 2+.

2) The Archon has failed one or more Inured to Suffering rolls. This step happens after rolling for damage, so the Sslyth would have to deal with multiple mortal wounds if you can roll the relevant 2+s.

In either case, the Sslyth gets Inured to Suffering to avoid taking a mortal wound.

Basically does Inured to Suffering allow you to potentially ignore damage after you have taken a wound (case 1) or is it part of the normal process and you haven't taken a wound until the last possible save has been resolved (case 2)? I think it is case 2, but could be wrong.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Cold-blooded Bodyguard fucntion   Fri May 11 2018, 23:29

@Kantalla wrote:
Basically does Inured to Suffering allow you to potentially ignore damage after you have taken a wound (case 1) or is it part of the normal process and you haven't taken a wound until the last possible save has been resolved (case 2)? I think it is case 2, but could be wrong.

It's case 1. Inured to Suffering is only triggered when you lose a wound. If it was case 2 you'd end up with some sort of paradox and the universe would implode.

Which IS very Dark Eldar, to be fair...

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DevilDoll
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PostSubject: Re: Cold-blooded Bodyguard fucntion   Sat May 12 2018, 06:31

So Count to get this straight if your archon gets wounded (fails a save) by a d6 weapon, BEFORE your opponent rolls damage, you roll a 2+ and the sslyth gets a single mortal wound?
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PostSubject: Re: Cold-blooded Bodyguard fucntion   Sat May 12 2018, 07:07

Wounds are resolved one at a time because per the rulebook, you "LOSE A WOUND" for each point of damage you suffer.

So you would roll the damage die, and then resolve each damage point one by one. You roll the FNP, if you fail, you have the option of passing it on to the Sslyth (who if black heart, also gets to roll a FNP save).

So say you ate a lascannon to the face, failed your shadowfield (of course), and the opponent rolled 3 damage:

Roll FNP, if fail, roll to pass it on to Sslyth.
Roll FNP, if fail, roll to pass it on to Sslyth.
Roll FNP, if fail, roll to pass it on to Sslyth.

Etc.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Cold-blooded Bodyguard fucntion   Sat May 12 2018, 16:10

@withershadow wrote:
Wounds are resolved one at a time because per the rulebook, you "LOSE A WOUND" for each point of damage you suffer.

So you would roll the damage die, and then resolve each damage point one by one. You roll the FNP, if you fail, you have the option of passing it on to the Sslyth (who if black heart, also gets to roll a FNP save).

I largely agree with this but, as I mentioned earlier, if this happens in your opponents turn (pretty likely), he could insist that you roll to pass the wounds onto the Sslyth before you roll FNP, as they both happen simultaneously so in his turn it's his choice what order they go in.

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PostSubject: Re: Cold-blooded Bodyguard fucntion   Sat May 12 2018, 19:29

That is not accurate. You inflict damage, then you lose wounds for each damage inflicted. The sequence is not simultaneous where you can decide what happens when.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Cold-blooded Bodyguard fucntion   Sat May 12 2018, 22:07

@withershadow wrote:
That is not accurate. You inflict damage, then you lose wounds for each damage inflicted. The sequence is not simultaneous where you can decide what happens when.

Not sure I'm following you there. Each of the abilities is triggered by the same event and neither rule gives any indication of priority so both happen simultaneously and the sequencing rules apply.

Roll to hit
Roll to wound
Roll saving throw
Roll damage - lose a wound for each 'damage point' (for want of a term that really needs to be in the damn rules) rolled

It's at this stage that both abilities trigger, so you either:

Roll FNP for each wound lost and then roll to see if the Sslyth take that wound for you OR
Roll to see if the Sslyth takes the wound and, if not, roll FNP for the Archon

The Sequencing rule tells us the order in which the rolls are made is determined by the player whose turn it currently is.

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PostSubject: Re: Cold-blooded Bodyguard fucntion   Sat May 12 2018, 22:39

Agree 100% with Count Adhemar. No wounds are lost until damage has been rolled for multiwound weapons, so you can't turn a D6 damage shot into a single MW.
Also agree on the sequencing rule which is very clear. With regards FNP and bodyguard intervention, both trigger at the same moment, when the Archon loses a wound. So if he takes damage in your turn always chose to roll his 6+ FNP before passing wounds to the Sslyth. Your opponent should always dodge one round of saves by making you pass to the Sslyth first on his turn.

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PostSubject: Re: Cold-blooded Bodyguard fucntion   Sun May 13 2018, 10:45

I’ve just always thought it was a 2+++ that did one mortal wound to the Sslyth every wound got saved
Isn’t that what everyone else thought as well?
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