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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: 5/10 man transport issues.   Sun Apr 01 2018, 19:45

The ravagers dissies is strength 5 ap-2?? And damage 2.

The pulse disintegrator is strength 8 ap-3 and damage 3.

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sethlight
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PostSubject: Re: 5/10 man transport issues.   Sun Apr 01 2018, 19:51

Had to check, both are -3 to my knowledge and 2 damage. BUT! one is str 8 and the other 5, like you said.

So ya, you're right. I was just going off memory. So that str 8 will more than make up for the lost shots. It may go on my list of stuff to get now! Money wise it does seem a bit overpriced still though and I don't think if I'd ever want to put my archons into it. That thing will be ~20% of your army in a 2k game.

I may wait around to see if I can find one for less than 100
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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: 5/10 man transport issues.   Sun Apr 01 2018, 19:59

Oops. My bad.

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PostSubject: Re: 5/10 man transport issues.   Sun Apr 01 2018, 20:02

@The Red King wrote:
Oops. My bad.

Meh, you still made your point and proved it was a better unit than I thought it was (We were both remembering the stats as well.).  And I forget if they changed it in the new codex.  Going to watch that again it seems xD
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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: 5/10 man transport issues.   Sun Apr 01 2018, 20:14

They didn't mention it in the deep dive so I assume it's not in the codex.

I personally love mine. The idea of sniping out chapter masters and banners from Imperial castles and using dissies to gun down their now vulnerable hellblasters makes me smile.

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Khalyxidae hybristoma
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PostSubject: Re: 5/10 man transport issues.   Sun Apr 01 2018, 20:23

I feel like it really does fit fluff that at least Archons wouldn't ever really deign to chill with their redshirts if they weren't actually murdering or having sex with them. Like as a matter of course, both socially and for security.

And most commorites are probably vain and egomaniacal enough to jump at the chance of having a private jet full of all their most bodied guards.

I feel like in combination with all the points drops, the answer is just to start thinking like a baller and get a boat for your boyz and a boat for your pimp.
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PostSubject: Re: 5/10 man transport issues.   Sun Apr 01 2018, 20:42

@Khalyxidae hybristoma wrote:
I feel like it really does fit fluff that at least Archons wouldn't ever really deign to chill with their redshirts if they weren't actually murdering or having sex with them. Like as a matter of course, both socially and for security.

And most commorites are probably vain and egomaniacal enough to jump at the chance of having a private jet full of all their most bodied guards.

I feel like in combination with all the points drops, the answer is just to start thinking like a baller and get a boat for your boyz and a boat for your pimp.

I've heard that before but I don't know. I feel like with trueborn gone and they are apart of your detachment you would want them by your side to throw in front of fire.

But I guess they might be worried about one of those warriors backstabbing them as well?

It might be interesting to at least proxy play with 6 raiders with 6 veoms with my HQ inside the smaller ships with snakes.
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Gelmir
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PostSubject: Re: 5/10 man transport issues.   Mon Apr 02 2018, 11:28

I was also thinking of buying a Tantalus. It's been on my wishlist for quite a while now, but it is rather expensive.
However, a 3+ save, then a Night Shield for a 5+ invul save against shooting. T7 with 18 wounds, and (amongst Cult and Kabal) the <Coven> keyword. I was planning on using it for Wracks with a Haemonculus or Urien, meaning it will get +1 Toughness for a total of T8 if they don't change that in the Codex.
Then add the Enhanced Aether Sails that let it DOUBLE it's movement while advancing. This means a total of 32" movement!!
Sure, it's going to be an expensive Death Star unit, but it can take a few punches, dish out quite some as well, and it will get my Coven to the other side of the board. There I'll just disembark, wreak havoc with both the coven and an empty Tantalus.

The thing is, yes it will receive a lot of fire from your opponent. But it takes quite some firepower to take down, and everything firing at my Tantalus is not firing at my Scourges and other units. Basically, I just need it to survive long enough to get my coven to the other side of the board so they don't have to walk, and it will be worth its points easily. I mean, those pulse disintegrators... Assault 6, Str8, AP-3 and Damage 2, TWICE? Moving 32", and then still shoot 12 of those shots at 36" range? That's a 68" threat range! And I'm not even adding in any obsession bonus.
It should be able to deal some damage even if it only lasts 1 turn.

Oh right, and minor detail... With Urien as my Warlord on board that monster, all friendly units within sight (ignoring distance) will use Urien's leadership.

In short, yeah, I think the face of my opponent wondering wtf happened after my first turn is already worth those points. Razz

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RedGriefCult
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PostSubject: Re: 5/10 man transport issues.   Mon Apr 02 2018, 11:48

I am torn between running my tantalus as red grief for advance and charge of 44" or dark creed for character sniping
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: 5/10 man transport issues.   Mon Apr 02 2018, 13:24

Honestly, if my math checks out (waiting for codex to have 100% confirmation and gives me time to test it), i will only be using 3-5mans in 3 Raiders, so i'll have lots of slots and wont be a problem.

Im also going to be using 1 Wych detachment, for Succubus, 3 Reaver units and 2 Flyers, my Succubus is the only problem i have, i'm thinking of just walking her to keep her character rule, the other option is to take a Raider and 5 Wyches as wounds.

Now that Raiders are cheaper and Discannons are too, i think i'm going full Raiders with Discannon, i might take a couple venoms for backup AI tho.

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PostSubject: Re: 5/10 man transport issues.   Mon Apr 02 2018, 14:30

@Gelmir wrote:
I was also thinking of buying a Tantalus. It's been on my wishlist for quite a while now, but it is rather expensive.
However, a 3+ save, then a Night Shield for a 5+ invul save against shooting. T7 with 18 wounds, and (amongst Cult and Kabal) the <Coven> keyword. I was planning on using it for Wracks with a Haemonculus or Urien, meaning it will get +1 Toughness for a total of T8 if they don't change that in the Codex.
Then add the Enhanced Aether Sails that let it DOUBLE it's movement while advancing. This means a total of 32" movement!!
Sure, it's going to be an expensive Death Star unit, but it can take a few punches, dish out quite some as well, and it will get my Coven to the other side of the board. There I'll just disembark, wreak havoc with both the coven and an empty Tantalus.

The thing is, yes  it will receive a lot of fire from your opponent. But it takes quite some firepower to take down, and everything firing at my Tantalus is not firing at my Scourges and other units. Basically, I just need it to survive long enough to get my coven to the other side of the board so  they don't have to walk, and it will be worth its points easily. I mean, those pulse disintegrators... Assault 6, Str8, AP-3 and Damage 2, TWICE? Moving 32", and then still shoot 12 of those shots at 36" range? That's a 68" threat range! And I'm not even adding in any obsession bonus.
It should be able to deal some damage even if it only lasts 1 turn.

Oh right, and minor detail... With Urien as my Warlord on board that monster, all friendly units within sight (ignoring distance) will use Urien's leadership.

In short, yeah, I think the face of my opponent wondering wtf happened after my first turn is already worth those points. Razz

Truth be told, I don't know.  My gut instinct tells me not to put all of my points in one unit and that would be +1/4th of your army.

But with a -1 to hit and the ability to deepstrike it might not be an issue.  

If it were me I would have the model off in the back somewhere by itself so it's blocked by most LOS, no one in it, as a 'dark creed' so it can character snipe. I would never have the thing charge to get attacked.  My only issue with that is I'm not a big fan of Haemonculi.
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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: 5/10 man transport issues.   Mon Apr 02 2018, 14:35

Owning the model and drawing line of sight to "any point on the model" I will tell you there is no LOS blocking terrain that hides it. The sail is far too large. On the plus side you can almost ALWAYS claim the leadership bonus due to that fact and fire your pulse disintegrator out of your top sail...

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PostSubject: Re: 5/10 man transport issues.   Mon Apr 02 2018, 14:35

@amishprn86 wrote:
Honestly, if my math checks out (waiting for codex to have 100% confirmation and gives me time to test it), i will only be using 3-5mans in 3 Raiders, so i'll have lots of slots and wont be a problem.

Im also going to be using 1 Wych detachment, for Succubus, 3 Reaver units and 2 Flyers, my Succubus is the only problem i have, i'm thinking of just walking her to keep her character rule, the other option is to take a Raider and 5 Wyches as wounds.

Now that Raiders are cheaper and Discannons are too, i think i'm going full Raiders with Discannon, i might take a couple venoms for backup AI tho.

Truth be told I think that is what I'm going to do.  Have 2-3 raiders with troops in it and the HQs.
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PostSubject: Re: 5/10 man transport issues.   Mon Apr 02 2018, 14:39

@The Red King wrote:
Owning the model and drawing line of sight to "any point on the model" I will tell you there is no LOS blocking terrain that hides it. The sail is far too large. On the plus side you can almost ALWAYS claim the leadership bonus due to that fact and fire your pulse disintegrator out of your top sail...

Ahh, lol. Well that kinda messes with that plan. I always thought that was silly. Oh, a hair is sticking out of the model! I can shoot it! It also flies so it doesn't get cover!



But yes... Now we get to 'shoot out of the sail' which balances it out too I guess.... Also there are no more fights about if your gun could turn far enough to hit X which is really nice too.
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PostSubject: Re: 5/10 man transport issues.   Mon Apr 02 2018, 16:30

I do admit that the person I do Warhammer with so far, plays Deamons and hardly has any ranged attacks. Therefore my Tantalus Death Star unit has a way bigger chance of fulfilling it's purpose. Also, I play just for fun, and don't care that much about winning. I just like the thought of the blazing bullrush attack it will do in my first turn, and my buddies face afterwards. Razz I will find out how useful it is by trying. Worse case scenario; It doesn't work, and I don't use that tactic again. Eh. Razz However, I really do think that it's a really effective way to get Urien with his Wracks within charge range of my opponent, and draw fire away from the rest of my army. Even if it gets shot down, it might still be worth it in the end.

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PostSubject: Re: 5/10 man transport issues.   Mon Apr 02 2018, 17:30

@Gelmir wrote:
I do admit that the person I do Warhammer with so far, plays Deamons and hardly has any ranged attacks. Therefore my Tantalus Death Star unit has a way bigger chance of fulfilling it's purpose. Also, I play just for fun, and don't care that much about winning. I just like the thought of the blazing bullrush attack it will do in my first turn, and my buddies face afterwards. Razz I will find out how useful it is by trying. Worse case scenario; It doesn't work, and I don't use that tactic again. Eh. Razz However, I really do think that it's a really effective way to get Urien with his Wracks within charge range of my opponent, and draw fire away from the rest of my army. Even if it gets shot down, it might still be worth it in the end.


Naaa I get you, man. I've done plenty of YOLO stuff as well. I remember charging a dakka jet into another flyer... because Orks (didn't know at the time I couldn't do this). I took more damage from 'overwatch' than I did in combat.
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PostSubject: Re: 5/10 man transport issues.   Mon Apr 09 2018, 20:56

Sorry, pretty new to all of this, both 40k and Drukhari...but can you fit one large squad on two transports? Say 15 Wyches and the Succubus on two Raiders...
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PostSubject: Re: 5/10 man transport issues.   Mon Apr 09 2018, 21:05

Nope, a transport can transport multiple units if it has room, but you can't spread a unit out over two transports. Any unit larger than 10 strong will be footslogging unless you can take the tantalus.

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PostSubject: Re: 5/10 man transport issues.   Mon Apr 09 2018, 21:08

Well, scratch one idea I had. I guess it would all be too easy if that was the case.

Thanks.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: 5/10 man transport issues.   Mon Apr 09 2018, 21:14

Orks have a stratagem if 2 units that are 10 less they can join together. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: 5/10 man transport issues.   Mon Apr 09 2018, 22:00

I guess it pays to be backasswards.
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