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FrankyMcShanky
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PostSubject: Re: Points Changes from BoLS   Sat Mar 31 2018, 21:14

@Lord Asvaldir wrote:
Drazhar when down in pts massively. Don't quote me on the pts cost but I think he went down to something like 80/90pts. They also changed his extra attacks on 6s thing to he fights twice when he charges/is charged.

@FrankyMcShanky wrote:
@colinsherlow wrote:
I have been thinking about taking 6 dissi ravagers for 750pts near an archon or 2. Or they can deepstrike with the stratagem.  

54 assault3 st5 -3ap 2d shots can kill a lot of stuff. Armour, hordes, elite infantry etc.  Especially with the archon re roll bubble.

With a doomseer they can take out an Imp night.

I expect to be taking a Black Heart Vanguard detachment with 3 dissie Ravagers and my archon with the relic that gives his aura re-roll wound rolls of 1.

Dissies rerolling 1's to hit and wound?  Yes please.

Plus it has the added benefit of giving those Ravagers a 6+++

Black Heart is meh in most cases but wow that sounds like a very solid idea. Ravagers don't really need the traits of any of the other kabals that much, and the black heart relic aura is going to be super solid for any ravagers. Plus you can also get the really  nice black heart warlord trait, so a whole lot of goodies in that combo.

My thoughts exactly. Unlocks a lot of goodies.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Points Changes from BoLS   Sat Mar 31 2018, 21:48

@HERO wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
@dygurren wrote:
@Lord Asvaldir wrote:
Definitely making me considering picking up another fighter, esspcially since I'd like to have a dissie cannon one now. Yeah even with pretty much all the information available to us now, it's still going to be a long wait for a week.

I use Battlescribe since i exclusively play casual games. Just think how long the wait will be for that sucker to update. My roommate runs BA and said it took forever for Battlescribe to get the correct number in.

BS is from players, you can change it your self, its not to hard, just save a copy then play with it, will take about an hour to get used to it.

Ive done it in the past for Tyranids, i did the 6th ed Tyranids 1st update one with the new models.

I am still very old school in this respect.  Never use Battlescribe, it only dulls your memory when it comes to knowing the points of your book.

BS makes you lazy in the long run.  Know the book and it won't be a problem!

I dont think it dulls it IMO, or makes you lazy, i still know every point of my harlequins, sob, and custodes.

Now my nids on the other hand lol, they have changed points so drastically from 5th to 6-7th to 8th index and finally to 8th codex.

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Gazbal
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PostSubject: Re: Points Changes from BoLS   Sun Apr 01 2018, 05:53

I know pretty much everyone except me seems to play Points instead of Power, but what do we know about the changes in costs using the Power system?
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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: Points Changes from BoLS   Sun Apr 01 2018, 06:07

Yeah unfortunately most gaming groups use points so BoLS didn't bother listing the power levels, you'll probably have to wait until the codex is out.

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SarisKhan
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PostSubject: Re: Points Changes from BoLS   Sun Apr 01 2018, 09:19

@Gazbal wrote:
I know pretty much everyone except me seems to play Points instead of Power, but what do we know about the changes in costs using the Power system?

They did mention that Kabalite Warriors are PL 2 now.
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Gazbal
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PostSubject: Re: Points Changes from BoLS   Sun Apr 01 2018, 11:24

Thanks Saris, I caught that tidbit and i'm of course hanging out for more.

Likely will have to wait for the codex to work out the "weights" of the various units.

Power is interesting in that when you work out a unit's strength for a certain role, you always start with that same value. i.e the power level of the unit instead of adding up the cost of weapons or upgrades used in that role.

You also end up with a bit more flexibility in your units in general.
Instead of trimming the fat to conserve point for the rest of your army, you are free to hand out every upgrade possible. Some of which might not be considered worth it for the points, but can be helpful when you don't have to pay for them.
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Barrywise
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PostSubject: Re: Points Changes from BoLS   Sun Apr 01 2018, 15:42

Ran a list of
2x Succubus
40 wyches (-1)
6 Reavers (-10?)
10 Scourge
5 Incubi
4 Raiders (-30)
2 Venoms (-20)

Total (~300)
For a test run of my friends new Y’Vahra, it was approx 1650 pts, but with the new point values I’m at least 300, if not 400 points cheaper. And all the wyches are like twice as killy. Rip and shred!

Edit: Whatever, it’s 40 pts, I gave everything upgrades. The point is still the same Wink

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Quauchtemoc
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PostSubject: Re: Points Changes from BoLS   Sun Apr 01 2018, 15:44

Its -1 for the whyches
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Points Changes from BoLS   Sun Apr 01 2018, 15:58

@Quauchtemoc wrote:
Its -1 for the whyches

Didnt all troops get -1pt?

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FrankyMcShanky
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PostSubject: Re: Points Changes from BoLS   Sun Apr 01 2018, 16:14

@amishprn86 wrote:
@Quauchtemoc wrote:
Its -1 for the whyches

Didnt all troops get -1pt?

I think wracks got -2?
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Points Changes from BoLS   Sun Apr 01 2018, 16:36

@FrankyMcShanky wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
@Quauchtemoc wrote:
Its -1 for the whyches

Didnt all troops get -1pt?

I think wracks got -2?

Just looked, Wracks are -2pts the other two are -1pt

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Samrael
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PostSubject: Re: Points Changes from BoLS   Mon Apr 02 2018, 10:33

How do you play with your Razorwings? Or going to? I am wondering the same about DL vs DC. Im quite torn because I dont know which is really better, to field my ravagers with darklance and razorwings with DCs or wise versa..
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Hen Tai, the tentacle guy
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PostSubject: Re: Points Changes from BoLS   Mon Apr 02 2018, 10:37

Magnetize them, so you can use both.

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hekatrixxy
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PostSubject: Re: Points Changes from BoLS   Mon Apr 02 2018, 13:13

I have my razorwing and ravagers all magnetised. Going to try out 7 Venoms with 5 man Kabalites with Blaster, 3 Dissie Ravagers, 2 Dissie RWJF, 1 Voidraven and 2 squads of Scourges in a game tomorrow night. Feels like so much more stuff than with the Index. I will let you know how I get on.

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Points Changes from BoLS   Mon Apr 02 2018, 13:16

For me since the RWJF has AI missiles and a plsinter weapon, i'd rather it be full AI and go Discannons, its also cheaper.

I'll have 2 HWB scourges as my dedicated AT, then some blasters on my 3-4 kabal units, archons, etc..

Tho.... a Discannon is 15pts and a Blaster is 17... a Discannon 3 shots might be better than a Blaster, i need to do the math.

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Imateria
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PostSubject: Re: Points Changes from BoLS   Mon Apr 02 2018, 13:37

@amishprn86 wrote:
@FrankyMcShanky wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
@Quauchtemoc wrote:
Its -1 for the whyches

Didnt all troops get -1pt?

I think wracks got -2?

Just looked, Wracks are -2pts the other two are -1pt
Are you sure? Wracks were 10pts in the index and 1pt for Wrack Tools making them 11pts. I've seen Wracks are now 9pts each but I've seen no mention of Wrack Tools so far.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Points Changes from BoLS   Mon Apr 02 2018, 13:41

@Imateria wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
@FrankyMcShanky wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
@Quauchtemoc wrote:
Its -1 for the whyches

Didnt all troops get -1pt?

I think wracks got -2?

Just looked, Wracks are -2pts the other two are -1pt
Are you sure? Wracks were 10pts in the index and 1pt for Wrack Tools making them 11pts. I've seen Wracks are now 9pts each but I've seen no mention of Wrack Tools so far.    

That is a very good point, i'm assuming you still pay the 1p, so they would be 1pt less.

Well, they are 9pts base now over 10pts, still great for them

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Samrael
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PostSubject: Re: Points Changes from BoLS   Mon Apr 02 2018, 13:49

@hekatrixxy wrote:
I have my razorwing and ravagers all magnetised. Going to try out 7 Venoms with 5 man Kabalites with Blaster, 3 Dissie Ravagers, 2 Dissie RWJF, 1 Voidraven and 2 squads of Scourges in a game tomorrow night. Feels like so much more stuff than with the Index. I will let you know how I get on.

Please do! Smile
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megatrons2nd
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PostSubject: Re: Points Changes from BoLS   Wed Apr 04 2018, 20:33

Did I miss the new Dark Lance cost somewhere?

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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: Points Changes from BoLS   Wed Apr 04 2018, 21:44

It didn't change, same reasonable 20pts cost it always has been.

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shadowseercB
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PostSubject: Re: Points Changes from BoLS   Wed Apr 04 2018, 23:27

@Imateria wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
@FrankyMcShanky wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
@Quauchtemoc wrote:
Its -1 for the whyches

Didnt all troops get -1pt?

I think wracks got -2?

Just looked, Wracks are -2pts the other two are -1pt
Are you sure? Wracks were 10pts in the index and 1pt for Wrack Tools making them 11pts. I've seen Wracks are now 9pts each but I've seen no mention of Wrack Tools so far.    

Wracks were 11pts

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hekatrixxy
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PostSubject: Re: Points Changes from BoLS   Thu Apr 05 2018, 06:45

I did the test game on Tuesday night with the new points and weapon stats.

I had all Dissies on the 3 Ravagers and 2 Razorwings.
I had 10 Blasters in total across 6 warrior squads and a squad of Scourges with 4.
Despite the fact that I absolutely rinsed the guy, I did feel like I wasn't able to pop open his armour quickly enough to allow my splinter fire to be fully effective as quickly as possible.

Armour wise he had a Crimson Hunter, a Falcon, a Fire Prism and 2 Wave Serpents. The CH and the WS were the hardest to crack without the DL. Dissies go down to only damage 1 against the WS which with wounding on 5s means you need a lot of shots to get through. The CH with the -1 to hit, and lightning fast reflexes being used on it in the first turn (once he used this I didn't shoot at it with any other units besides the one that RWJF that had already targeted it) means not enough shots are hitting to get enough chances at rolling the 5s to wound required.

I think I will most likely go back DL on the RWJF, and possibly have 1 DL & 2 DC on each Ravager if they still allow that on the codex datasheet.

That game though, in total I lost two Venoms, 9 Scourges, 3 Warriors and a Medusae. That's it. In a 2000 point game. Crazy.

I am trying the same exact list against Tau tonight so that I can see how the Dissies perform again.

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SarisKhan
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PostSubject: Re: Points Changes from BoLS   Thu Apr 05 2018, 09:35

I've seen several people stuffing their lists chock-full of Disintegrators and kept wondering about their actual AT capability. At 15 pts. they're worth including for sure, but I really doubt they could replace Dark Lances in terms of heavy duty completely.

The better idea would probably be to take some of both. IMHO, a true TAC list should establish some sort of good ratio between Poison/Dissie/Darklight shots, dependent on the local meta, of course.
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PostSubject: Re: Points Changes from BoLS   Thu Apr 05 2018, 09:36

@hekatrixxy wrote:
I did the test game on Tuesday night with the new points and weapon stats.

I had all Dissies on the 3 Ravagers and 2 Razorwings.
I had 10 Blasters in total across 6 warrior squads and a squad of Scourges with 4.
Despite the fact that I absolutely rinsed the guy, I did feel like I wasn't able to pop open his armour quickly enough to allow my splinter fire to be fully effective as quickly as possible.

Armour wise he had a Crimson Hunter, a Falcon, a Fire Prism and 2 Wave Serpents. The CH and the WS were the hardest to crack without the DL. Dissies go down to only damage 1 against the WS which with wounding on 5s means you need a lot of shots to get through. The CH with the -1 to hit, and lightning fast reflexes being used on it in the first turn (once he used this I didn't shoot at it with any other units besides the one that RWJF that had already targeted it) means not enough shots are hitting to get enough chances at rolling the 5s to wound required.

I think I will most likely go back DL on the RWJF, and possibly have 1 DL & 2 DC on each Ravager if they still allow that on the codex datasheet.

That game though, in total I lost two Venoms, 9 Scourges, 3 Warriors and a Medusae. That's it. In a 2000 point game. Crazy.

I am trying the same exact list against Tau tonight so that I can see how the Dissies perform again.

Damn...both my RWJF got Lances... And I glued them in place!!
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Points Changes from BoLS   Thu Apr 05 2018, 10:11

@hekatrixxy wrote:
I did the test game on Tuesday night with the new points and weapon stats.

I had all Dissies on the 3 Ravagers and 2 Razorwings.
I had 10 Blasters in total across 6 warrior squads and a squad of Scourges with 4.
Despite the fact that I absolutely rinsed the guy, I did feel like I wasn't able to pop open his armour quickly enough to allow my splinter fire to be fully effective as quickly as possible.

Armour wise he had a Crimson Hunter, a Falcon, a Fire Prism and 2 Wave Serpents. The CH and the WS were the hardest to crack without the DL. Dissies go down to only damage 1 against the WS which with wounding on 5s means you need a lot of shots to get through. The CH with the -1 to hit, and lightning fast reflexes being used on it in the first turn (once he used this I didn't shoot at it with any other units besides the one that RWJF that had already targeted it) means not enough shots are hitting to get enough chances at rolling the 5s to wound required.

I think I will most likely go back DL on the RWJF, and possibly have 1 DL & 2 DC on each Ravager if they still allow that on the codex datasheet.

That game though, in total I lost two Venoms, 9 Scourges, 3 Warriors and a Medusae. That's it. In a 2000 point game. Crazy.

I am trying the same exact list against Tau tonight so that I can see how the Dissies perform again.

Wave Serpents are the strongest Transports (non super heavy) in the game, they will always feel like you didnt do enough fast enough Evil or Very Mad

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