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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Points Changes from BoLS   Thu Apr 05 2018, 14:05

Is the Beastmaster still Elite and still a character?

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Drugo
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PostSubject: Re: Points Changes from BoLS   Thu Apr 05 2018, 14:12

Yes to both and still wytch cult keyword (yay Ld drugs).
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Alezya
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PostSubject: Re: Points Changes from BoLS   Thu Apr 05 2018, 14:35

What about the Talos?
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Drugo
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PostSubject: Re: Points Changes from BoLS   Thu Apr 05 2018, 15:34

@Alezya wrote:
What about the Talos?

Well, for something that was in the GW top 5 of improved units it's still pretty rubbish to me.
Basically went down 20ish points once you add weapons, and the macro scalpels improved the AP by 1, that's it.
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TheBaconPope
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PostSubject: Re: Points Changes from BoLS   Thu Apr 05 2018, 15:39

They just slapped another bit of AP on it and cut the cost? Seems a wee bit short of the "suite of new changes and synergies" GW promised

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Points Changes from BoLS   Thu Apr 05 2018, 15:41

@Drugo wrote:
@Alezya wrote:
What about the Talos?

Well, for something that was in the GW top 5 of improved units it's still pretty rubbish to me.
Basically went down 20ish points once you add weapons, and the macro scalpels improved the AP by 1, that's it.

Many are saying its Sx2 now tho, is that not the case?

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Points Changes from BoLS   Thu Apr 05 2018, 15:56

@amishprn86 wrote:
@Drugo wrote:
@Alezya wrote:
What about the Talos?

Well, for something that was in the GW top 5 of improved units it's still pretty rubbish to me.
Basically went down 20ish points once you add weapons, and the macro scalpels improved the AP by 1, that's it.

Many are saying its Sx2 now tho, is that not the case?

I think that's a separate weapon, basically a power fist.

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Drugo
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PostSubject: Re: Points Changes from BoLS   Thu Apr 05 2018, 16:00

@amishprn86 wrote:
@Drugo wrote:
@Alezya wrote:
What about the Talos?

Well, for something that was in the GW top 5 of improved units it's still pretty rubbish to me.
Basically went down 20ish points once you add weapons, and the macro scalpels improved the AP by 1, that's it.

Many are saying its Sx2 now tho, is that not the case?

Strenght 12? God no.
They added the Talos Gauntlet, 15 points as opposed to the 4 pts of macro scalpel, you lose 1 attack, you hit on 4+ but it's S+2 instead of S+1 (forgot to mention, that's another improvement on the macro scalpel), ap -3 instead of -2 and damage d3 instead of 2... la dee da.
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TheBaconPope
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PostSubject: Re: Points Changes from BoLS   Thu Apr 05 2018, 16:01

That's...arguably worse than the Ichor Injector in the index.

Please tell me at least that got a buff, right?

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Points Changes from BoLS   Thu Apr 05 2018, 16:01

@Drugo wrote:
Strenght 12? God no.
They added the Talos Gauntlet, 15 points as opposed to the 4 pts of macro scalpel, you lose 1 attack, you hit on 4+ but it's S+2 instead of S+1

Are you sure? Pretty much everyone has been saying it's double strength.

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Points Changes from BoLS   Thu Apr 05 2018, 16:05

I mean +2str makes more sense, it could meant its "Equal to a PF now" as in the S8 -3ap D3 damage

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Drugo
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PostSubject: Re: Points Changes from BoLS   Thu Apr 05 2018, 16:08

@TheBaconPope wrote:
That's...arguably worse than the Ichor Injector in the index.

Please tell me at least that got a buff, right?

Oh yeah, massive buff.. it's now ap-1 Rolling Eyes


@Count Adhemar wrote:
@Drugo wrote:
Strenght 12? God no.
They added the Talos Gauntlet, 15 points as opposed to the 4 pts of macro scalpel, you lose 1 attack, you hit on 4+ but it's S+2 instead of S+1

Are you sure? Pretty much everyone has been saying it's double strength.

Uh.. yes, I have it in front of me...
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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: Points Changes from BoLS   Thu Apr 05 2018, 17:04

@Drugo wrote:
Yes to both and still wytch cult keyword (yay Ld drugs).

That's good news, especially since he's the one model where the leadership drug is actually useful.

I'll hold off on assessing the talos until I try it out in a lis, but certainly doesn't sound like a huge improvement. Double macro-scalpel is probably still the way to go.

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the_scotsman
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PostSubject: Re: Points Changes from BoLS   Thu Apr 05 2018, 17:08

A user on dakka was saying the chain flail now attacked twice for every attack you used it. That's good if true - means you can go into double attack mode to avoid getting tarpitted and still have a cleaver.
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the_scotsman
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PostSubject: Re: Points Changes from BoLS   Thu Apr 05 2018, 17:20

Drugo, can you confirm whether Succubi can swap both their weapons for the Wych Cult weapons?
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The Strange Dark One
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PostSubject: Re: Points Changes from BoLS   Thu Apr 05 2018, 18:26

@Count Adhemar wrote:
@Drugo wrote:
Yes, all beasts I haven't mentioned are the same.
Drazhar is still a no thanks for me, 120 points, Lelith 80, Urien 90, succubus 50 (whoop whop), haemi 70 and the electrocorrosive whip is down 2 points

So the EC Whip was our best melee weapon and they reduced the points cost, whilst the succubus is still stuck with a weapon that gives -1 to hit for no apparent reason and that actively mucks up one of her warlord traits? Evil or Very Mad

Let me introduce you: The Blood Glaive. S6, AP-3, D3 damage, no hit modifier. And suddenly, you can also use the Blood Dancer trait. And Red Grief is probably the best faction for Reavers too.

An Archon with a Djinn Blade is also super tempting, but I'd rather have him orchestrating my Ravagers and returning valuable CPs.

Edit: Thanks for the hint. But I think the Blood Glaive is still worth checking out. It corrects all drawbacks that holds back the Succubus from being a greater fighter. For 50pts, I think that is a steal.

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HERO
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PostSubject: Re: Points Changes from BoLS   Thu Apr 05 2018, 19:25

@The Strange Dark One wrote:
@Count Adhemar wrote:
@Drugo wrote:
Yes, all beasts I haven't mentioned are the same.
Drazhar is still a no thanks for me, 120 points, Lelith 80, Urien 90, succubus 50 (whoop whop), haemi 70 and the electrocorrosive whip is down 2 points

So the EC Whip was our best melee weapon and they reduced the points cost, whilst the succubus is still stuck with a weapon that gives -1 to hit for no apparent reason and that actively mucks up one of her warlord traits? Evil or Very Mad

Let me introduce you: The Blood Glaive. S6, AP-3, D3 damage, no hit modifier. And suddenly, you can also use the Blood Dancer trait. And Red Grief is probably the best faction for Reavers too.

An Archon with a Djinn Blade is also super tempting, but I'd rather have him orchestrating my Ravagers and returning valuable CPs.

Blood Dancer is Strife and Blood Glaive is Red Grief.

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Kissaki
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PostSubject: Re: Points Changes from BoLS   Thu Apr 05 2018, 21:27

Trying to plan my purchases Dark Eldar army for 8th (haven't played in like 3 years). Turns out my friends use power level instead points...

Can anyone give a sumup on the powerpoint changes in the codex for the units?
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colinsherlow
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PostSubject: Re: Points Changes from BoLS   Thu Apr 05 2018, 22:38

I don't know if this was mentioned or not already.

The Talos has also gained 1 extra attack. 2 macro scalples gives +1st and +1 attack.  Meaning 6 st7 attacks.  With urien near by he bumps them up to st8 and t7 with his aura.
That is pretty good.

Also fire and fade is a great 1st turn strat for a talos unit. Just remember to add one assault ranged weapon in the unit so that you can fire a weapon after advancing. The stinger pod is probably the best choice since it has the longest range

Move 8" +d6 advance + 7" fire and fade. Gets the talos in your opponents grills right away

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the_scotsman
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PostSubject: Re: Points Changes from BoLS   Thu Apr 05 2018, 23:23

I have the codex in hand, don't have time to do a side by side of power levels right now and don't have my index on me.

one thing I can confirm though: succubi can definitely swap both their weapons for a wych weapon, and also there was a missed buff to Shardnet+impaler, it now grants a bonus attack, ap-1, D2 with the new shardnet rule.

To me, this very much answers the question of "what do i do with my Cursed blade succubi". S4 base, no hit penalty, just enough AP to get me to the invuln saves most characters I want her hunting, a bonus attack, and it also has delicious synergy with the Traitors Embrace.

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benmet
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PostSubject: Re: Points Changes from BoLS   Thu Apr 05 2018, 23:45

That makes 3 succubus way more interesting.
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Drugo
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PostSubject: Re: Points Changes from BoLS   Thu Apr 05 2018, 23:59

@the_scotsman wrote:
A user on dakka was saying the chain flail now attacked twice for every attack you used it. That's good if true - means you can go into double attack mode to avoid getting tarpitted and still have a cleaver.

Yes but it's rubbish, if you attack with the chain flail you have twice the attacks (so Cool but it's S6, ap 0, damage 1 so not great...

@colinsherlow wrote:
I don't know if this was mentioned or not already.

The Talos has also gained 1 extra attack. 2 macro scalples gives +1st and +1 attack.  Meaning 6 st7 attacks.  With urien near by he bumps them up to st8 and t7 with his aura.
That is pretty good.

incorrect unfortunately, as a matter of fact it's the opposite, index scalpels were +2 attacks if you had 2, now it's +1 if you have 2, no extra attacks if you only have 1.
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Ubernoob1
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PostSubject: Re: Points Changes from BoLS   Fri Apr 06 2018, 00:12

@Drugo wrote:
@colinsherlow wrote:
I don't know if this was mentioned or not already.

The Talos has also gained 1 extra attack. 2 macro scalples gives +1st and +1 attack. Meaning 6 st7 attacks. With urien near by he bumps them up to st8 and t7 with his aura.
That is pretty good.

incorrect unfortunately, as a matter of fact it's the opposite, index scalpels were +2 attacks if you had 2, now it's +1 if you have 2, no extra attacks if you only have 1.

Except the idea is the Talos gained 1 attack to it's profile, didn't it? So 2 scalpels still get it to 6 attacks with the +1.
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the_scotsman
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PostSubject: Re: Points Changes from BoLS   Fri Apr 06 2018, 00:16

10 S6 Ap0 rerolling to wound attacks is preeeeetty good if you're looking to avoid getting tarpitted. You give up a single scalpel attack to get that insurance. Feels like a solid option, unlike the pimp hand or the ichor injector.
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Drugo
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PostSubject: Re: Points Changes from BoLS   Fri Apr 06 2018, 00:20

@Ubernoob1 wrote:
@Drugo wrote:
@colinsherlow wrote:
I don't know if this was mentioned or not already.

The Talos has also gained 1 extra attack. 2 macro scalples gives +1st and +1 attack.  Meaning 6 st7 attacks.  With urien near by he bumps them up to st8 and t7 with his aura.
That is pretty good.

incorrect unfortunately, as a matter of fact it's the opposite, index scalpels were +2 attacks if you had 2, now it's +1 if you have 2, no extra attacks if you only have 1.

Except the idea is the Talos gained 1 attack to it's profile, didn't it? So 2 scalpels still get it to 6 attacks with the +1.

Yes sorry, if you do the total including base profile (which is now 5) then they have the same attacks as before, I was under the impression that he said that current macro scalpels still give +2 attacks and on top of that there's the extra +1 from the new profile.
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