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HERO
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: TTT DE video   Sat Mar 31 2018, 06:03

Don't want to get lost on this too much, but if you read GW's words:
"Don’t worry though, you can still use all of these in your games if you have these older models."

We never got models for Trueborn.

RIP 2018

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PostSubject: Re: TTT DE video   Sat Mar 31 2018, 06:04

Also, I talked to iveseenit and we can confirm that the Voidraven dropped 34 points if we count missiles.

169 --> 150 for base
25 --> 10 for missiles

Might be worthwhile now for sure at 160.

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Bad-baden-baden
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PostSubject: Re: TTT DE video   Sat Mar 31 2018, 06:12

@HERO wrote:
Don't want to get lost on this too much, but if you read GW's words:
"Don’t worry though, you can still use all of these in your games if you have these older models."

We never got models for Trueborn.

RIP 2018

I don't know if I believe that's how it works? Seems like a wording technicality.
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Bad-baden-baden
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PostSubject: Re: TTT DE video   Sat Mar 31 2018, 06:23

Honestly I really have to say how frustrating this transport thing is. Now we're punished even heavier by not taking a squad of 10 kaballites by losing out on not only the heavy weapon but also the special weapon...

And we can't even fit our Hq's in the venom unless they sit alone or with a court? Annoying annoying.
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FuelDrop
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PostSubject: Re: TTT DE video   Sat Mar 31 2018, 06:40

@Bad-baden-baden wrote:
Honestly I really have to say how frustrating this transport thing is. Now we're punished even heavier by not taking a squad of 10 kaballites by losing out on not only the heavy weapon but also the special weapon...

And we can't even fit our Hq's in the venom unless they sit alone or with a court? Annoying annoying.

It's worse than that. By stripping out the Blaster from the Archon, he can't even contribute to the firepower from the transport.

Oh, and our shooty faction has no shooty HQ option. Congrats GW.
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PostSubject: Re: TTT DE video   Sat Mar 31 2018, 06:44

Quote :
It's worse than that. By stripping out the Blaster from the Archon, he can't even contribute to the firepower from the transport.

Oh, and our shooty faction has no shooty HQ option. Congrats GW.

What's the point of allowing a Blast Pistol (Not in his kit) but not allowing a Blaster? (Not in his kit, but just as easily lifted from the Kabalite Sprue as the pistol.)

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FuelDrop
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PostSubject: Re: TTT DE video   Sat Mar 31 2018, 06:46

Why doesn't the Archon have access to literally every weapon, gun and melee, in the DE arsenal? Even if just as an option.


BTW, did anyone see if we can assault out of Transports?

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Trueborn44
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PostSubject: Re: TTT DE video   Sat Mar 31 2018, 06:47

@FuelDrop

I was pretty sure we could take a Blaster on the Archon as it was in the index, similar to how other models can , such as the autocannon dreadnaught. It wasn't given the option post codecies but are still able to take them as they're in the index. I think I'm right though it'd be good if someone clarified.
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Bad-baden-baden
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PostSubject: Re: TTT DE video   Sat Mar 31 2018, 06:47

@Trueborn44 wrote:
@FuelDrop

I was pretty sure we could take a Blaster on the Archon as it was in the index, similar to how other models can , such as the autocannon dreadnaught. It wasn't given the option post codecies but are still able to take them as they're in the index. I think I'm right though it'd be good if someone clarified.

I'm pretty sure you're right. Big question is whether or not we're allowed to take Trueborn. Bloodbrides are dead and buried, but trueborn still have utility.
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PostSubject: Re: TTT DE video   Sat Mar 31 2018, 06:49

@Trueborn44 wrote:
@FuelDrop

I was pretty sure we could take a Blaster on the Archon as it was in the index, similar to how other models can , such as the autocannon dreadnaught. It wasn't given the option post codecies but are still able to take them as they're in the index. I think I'm right though it'd be good if someone clarified.

True, but let us say for a moment that I am a new player. I want to pick up Dark Eldar. I go down to my hobby store and pick up my codex and my army.

Then I go online and find out that to get the FULL army I need to have another book and kinda mash the two together.

HOW IS THIS A DEFENCE FOR POOR DESIGN?!?
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TheBaconPope
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PostSubject: Re: TTT DE video   Sat Mar 31 2018, 06:50

Also, no move/disembark rule/stratagem/trait. The true Alpha Strike army - great at moving into enemy range of fire, awful at actually getting any benefit from that.

Did Raiders get a 16" move, or do we still have the slowest Skimmers?
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PostSubject: Re: TTT DE video   Sat Mar 31 2018, 06:52

@TheBaconPope wrote:
Also, no move/disembark rule/stratagem/trait. The true Alpha Strike army - great at moving into enemy range of fire, awful at actually getting any benefit from that.

Did Raiders get a 16" move, or do we still have the slowest Skimmers?

I guess I'm eating my shoe...
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PostSubject: Re: TTT DE video   Sat Mar 31 2018, 06:52

@FuelDrop
I'm not defending it, it's ridiculous. As someone else stated, it's just as easy to get a blaster as a blast pistol for an Archon model. We can take them though, which is a sigh of relief atleast.
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PostSubject: Re: TTT DE video   Sat Mar 31 2018, 06:55

@Thebaconpope
They didn't mention anything in BOLS deep dive, just a points drop. We can get the +3 move from the flayed skull obsession though. It's possible they misses it though, as the Dark eldar guy previewing it didn't have much time to prepare beforehand.
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PostSubject: Re: TTT DE video   Sat Mar 31 2018, 07:06

The points changes & traits are strong and look to be enough to make us a solid & competitive army. Our strengths were our Vehicles, and now our strengths seem to be both our Troops & Vehicles.

However, it seems the HQ problem remains very annoying. No changes to transport capacity, no profile changes, leaving the Archite Glaive in it's sorry state (it seems it's possibly not D3 damage as previously reported)... At least one of your Archons can be useful-ish now with Djinn Blade.
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PostSubject: Re: TTT DE video   Sat Mar 31 2018, 07:09

@TheBaconPope wrote:
Quote :
It's worse than that. By stripping out the Blaster from the Archon, he can't even contribute to the firepower from the transport.

Oh, and our shooty faction has no shooty HQ option. Congrats GW.

What's the point of allowing a Blast Pistol (Not in his kit) but not allowing a Blaster? (Not in his kit, but just as easily lifted from the Kabalite Sprue as the pistol.)

The rules say that pistols and grenades don't need to be modeled. Thats why he can buy a blast pistol, but not a blaster in the codex.
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FuelDrop
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PostSubject: Re: TTT DE video   Sat Mar 31 2018, 07:10

Does anyone know if Kabalite Warriors got their grenades back?
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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: TTT DE video   Sat Mar 31 2018, 07:38

Don't think so, but we now have 6pts/m warriors, I really don't think we can complain.

The whole situation with our characters is unfortunate, but I suppose it's just something we have to accept. Now that archons seems like half decent melee combatants, I think I'll be taking an escort of some sort in a raider for the archon, maybe some wyches/incubi along with a sucubus and maybe a court model or two. It's not ideal, but at least that won't reduce the firepower of any kabalite units.

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PostSubject: Re: TTT DE video   Sat Mar 31 2018, 07:40

Can we cram all our HQ tax into a single venom, or does the various subfactions mean we cannot due to one transport not being allowed to take units from other Kabals/Cults/Covens?
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PostSubject: Re: TTT DE video   Sat Mar 31 2018, 07:42

If the wording for transports stays the same, we'll be fine, and I suspect that will be the case because it would be ridiculous if they do change that.

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PostSubject: Re: TTT DE video   Sat Mar 31 2018, 07:45

On monday I was pumped.

Now, I am thinking I will sit this edition out.
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PostSubject: Re: TTT DE video   Sat Mar 31 2018, 07:47

Couldn't disagree more, after watching all the preview videos that are floating around I am so pumped. Give it time, the codex isn't even out yet. Get in some test games and then reach a decision.

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PostSubject: Re: TTT DE video   Sat Mar 31 2018, 08:04

@Lord Asvaldir wrote:
Couldn't disagree more, after watching all the preview videos that are floating around I am so pumped. Give it time, the codex isn't even out yet. Get in some test games and then reach a decision.

See, here's the thing. It's all a coat of paint on a still broken engine. Core parts of the army still do not work.

We lost two units. Bloodbrides were no big loss, but Trueborn were an extremely important part of our army. Ever since 5th edition, be it Blaster Born or Lanceborn, whatever our elite Kabalites were up to defined our shooting.

On top of this, all the speed we are supposed to have is conditional. Only one Cult gets to be fast. Only one Kabal gets to be fast. No assault from vehicles.

Our army still maintains extensive dis-synergy. HQ auras improving means absolutely nothing since we have no way to keep them up with our transports, can't fit them on the transports with a combat efficient squad (especially since we just lost our best small unit options), and even if we could the auras don't affect the units inside the transports anyway.

Our HQ tax has increased dramatically. Archons get a minor increase in efficiency for +20% cost, we have to take more of them now, and to add insult to injury they lost their guns. They were useless before, making them more expensive has not helped matters. Succubi are cheaper, but they still suck in close combat.

Of our factions, many iconic ones are outright lame. "Yay, we get more power from pain which still only affects melee on our ranged faction! Yay, we get +1 attack on the charge compared to the Morale Immunity and flat +1 strength next door!"

Many units with horrible, crippling issues got a price drop without having the issues themselves addressed. Reavers still hit like wet noodles, no matter many points they drop. Heat Lances are still crap for their job whether they cost 1 point or 100.

They're polishing a turd and hoping you don't notice the smell.

EDIT: These are all known issues. There's nothing new here. I just don't want people getting distracted by the shiny new exterior and forgetting that the engine barely starts.


Last edited by FuelDrop on Sat Mar 31 2018, 08:19; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: TTT DE video   Sat Mar 31 2018, 08:18

So Trueborn..
Are we absolutely sure we can take the Index units, and then give them 4x new Blasters from the Codex for 123 points of a unit.

Likewise,
We can put a Blaster on our Archon because the option exists in the Index?

I'm not sold on this I'm afraid..

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PostSubject: Re: TTT DE video   Sat Mar 31 2018, 08:21

Yeah, some big previous problems are still with us and GW`s words about awesomeness of DE is not trustworthy.

But i still think we should wait and see. There are more smaller changes (depending on video), so maybe, just maybe, we got ourselves covered this time.

After all, i didn`t expected DE to climb from their hole on the top of the montain.

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