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 Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems

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Mikoneo
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 21:21

I already have 3 custom schemes for the 3 subfactions and I don't particularly want to change that. I think for justification I'll just say that they are pure mercenaries so work for whatever kabal/coven/cult will pay them. Fits with the fluff in my mind as why send your own men and risk them dying, when you can send others in their place
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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 21:24

@Mikoneo wrote:
I already have 3 custom schemes for the 3 subfactions and I don't particularly want to change that. I think for justification I'll just say that they are pure mercenaries so work for whatever kabal/coven/cult will pay them. Fits with the fluff in my mind as why send your own men and risk them dying, when you can send others in their place

Paint the base different colors and you'll be fine
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TheBaconPope
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 21:26

In regards to Dakka...these people are aware it effects only one stratagem, they have a 66% chance of getting their CPs refunded, the stratagem is only locked for a single phase, and most armies won't be able to use reasonably more than twice, right?

They're acting like we've just been given a button to say "No strategems, ever, for anyone."

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RedRegicide
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 21:30

@Mikoneo wrote:
I already have 3 custom schemes for the 3 subfactions and I don't particularly want to change that. I think for justification I'll just say that they are pure mercenaries so work for whatever kabal/coven/cult will pay them. Fits with the fluff in my mind as why send your own men and risk them dying, when you can send others in their place

Wait, is your issue that you aren't following the official colour scheme? I don't think it matters as long as different sub factions have different colours so you should be fine.


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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 21:32

@RedRegicide wrote:
@Mikoneo wrote:
I already have 3 custom schemes for the 3 subfactions and I don't particularly want to change that. I think for justification I'll just say that they are pure mercenaries so work for whatever kabal/coven/cult will pay them. Fits with the fluff in my mind as why send your own men and risk them dying, when you can send others in their place

Wait, is your issue that you aren't following the official colour scheme? I don't think it matters as long as different sub factions have different colours so you should be fine.


It doesnt matter at all, like literally doesnt matter.

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Mikoneo
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 21:35

So we don't think it would be an issue not using the official paint schemes for all the different obsessions? Painting has always been a major worry for me (I'm a crap painter and find it very tedious) and I've heard that tournaments can be very strict on it
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Ubernoob1
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 21:38

@TheBaconPope wrote:
In regards to Dakka...these people are aware it effects only one stratagem, they have a 66% chance of getting their CPs refunded, the stratagem is only locked for a single phase, and most armies won't be able to use reasonably more than twice, right?

They're acting like we've just been given a button to say "No strategems, ever, for anyone."

Or that we've had a page or two discussion here on if players will even field Black Heart detachments to use the stratagem?

...which just made me think of something: If it's legal to use a Saim-hann stratagem without a Saim-hann detachment so long as you have a craftworld detachment and a Saim-hann unit...why is that stratagem, which doesn't even target a unit, have a specific kabal attached to it? O.o
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 21:38

@Mikoneo wrote:
So we don't think it would be an issue not using the official paint schemes for all the different obsessions? Painting has always been a major worry for me (I'm a crap painter and find it very tedious) and I've heard that tournaments can be very strict on it

Nope, just as long you and your player knows the models are different.

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Dark Elf Dave
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 21:46

So far, if you were going to pick 3 patrols now which 3 obsessions would you pick out of the 10 choices?
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Gorefather
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 21:48

@Mikoneo wrote:
So we don't think it would be an issue not using the official paint schemes for all the different obsessions? Painting has always been a major worry for me (I'm a crap painter and find it very tedious) and I've heard that tournaments can be very strict on it

Tournaments are more strict about doing things like taking Space Wolf models but calling them Blood Angels. An argument can be made about Your Dudes and successors, but it can be confusing.

For things like Aeldari, there's so many minor subfactions that I don't think anyone would notice aside from players who are intimately familiar with them. I feel like 90% of the playerbase wouldn't recognize the difference between Iyanden and Alaitoc aside from the rules.

I wouldn't worry about painting, as long as you can tell detachments apart not many people will notice.
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Gorefather
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 21:55

@Dark Elf Dave wrote:
So far, if you were going to pick 3 patrols now which 3 obsessions would you pick out of the 10 choices?

Currently without having the codex my rough 2k list is something like

Patrol: Black Heart (warlord, ravagers)
Patrol: Flayed Skull (kabs, raiders)
Patrol: Flayed Skull
Outrider: Red Grief (2 Reavers, 1 Scourge (assuming Scourges don't break <faction>))
Airborne: Obsidian Rose

Outrider is purely for that turn 1 alpha strike against enemy vehicles to pin them down so my Raiders can get in close. Airborne can be broken back down into the Patrols depending on how they treat the Voidraven. Even though I'm not big on Black Heart, the threat of being able to deny a stratagem will play mind games, and their warlord trait is crazy good.

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Dark Elf Dave
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 22:02

Seems pretty good...no Coven then for you? Shame to miss out on the extra Warlords and extra CP potentially.
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Gorefather
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 22:09

@Dark Elf Dave wrote:
Seems pretty good...no Coven then for you? Shame to miss out on the extra Warlords and extra CP potentially.

It depends entirely on how they fair in the codex. I've got a bunch of Coven models ready to go but I usually field them all together none of them have really held their own. Maybe a Haem and minimum Wrack squad could be squeezed in but unless there's some really good Wych Cult traits I'd rather stick to more Kabalites.

Even the Succubus is a tax for me unless they've overhauled her. The whole detachment could be swapped to Black Heart Spearhead w/ Warlord but I really want to make use of my 20+ Reavers.
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SERAFF
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 22:25

Regarding the black heart tax.
WHY DO YOU EVEN THINK YOU NEED ANY BH DETACHMENT TO PLAY IT?

Show me the rule where it is stated, that I can't use subfaction stratagems without the actual subfaction

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Ubernoob1
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 22:27

@SERAFF wrote:
Regarding the black heart tax.
WHY DO YOU EVEN THINK YOU NEED ANY BH DETACHMENT TO PLAY IT?

Show me the rule where it is stated, that I can't use subfaction stratagems without the actual subfaction

Yeah unless they're changing that, you are right. By all accounts based on current information, you only need a single dark eldar detachment since this stratagem isn't being used on a black heart unit.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 22:30

Maybe you're only allowed to play it to counter a Black Heart stratagem. Razz
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SERAFF
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 22:31

Anyway I see BH kabal as autochoice for warlord trait and for buffing Ravagers or Aircrafts.
Flayed skull goes for guys on skimmers and I think that could be all I need.

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Orasann
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 22:31

@SERAFF wrote:
Regarding the black heart tax.
WHY DO YOU EVEN THINK YOU NEED ANY BH DETACHMENT TO PLAY IT?

Show me the rule where it is stated, that I can't use subfaction stratagems without the actual subfaction

I mean, the very first line after the stratagem preview is literally

"While only Kabal of the Black Heart Drukhari will be able to use this Stratagem, we’d recommend taking a Patrol Detachment just to use it. "

Now you could argue semantics on it, but seems a pretty much clear cut.
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Ubernoob1
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 22:33

@Orasann wrote:
@SERAFF wrote:
Regarding the black heart tax.
WHY DO YOU EVEN THINK YOU NEED ANY BH DETACHMENT TO PLAY IT?

Show me the rule where it is stated, that I can't use subfaction stratagems without the actual subfaction

I mean, the very first line after the stratagem preview is literally

"While only Kabal of the Black Heart Drukhari will be able to use this Stratagem, we’d recommend taking a Patrol Detachment just to use it. "

Now you could argue semantics on it, but seems a pretty much clear cut.

Which is fine, but that means they are changing the wording on those specific stratagems, or at least they will for dark eldar.
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Archon_91
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 22:37

Mm I'm pretty sure because the stratagem says " Kabal of the Black Heart Stratagem" it means you have to take a "Kabal of the Black Heart" detachment to use it ... Same as any other "legion" or "chapter" Stratagem. Much like the example of San-hiem that's been thrown around a lot.
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Orasann
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 22:38

@Ubernoob1 wrote:
Which is fine, but that means they are changing the wording on those specific stratagems, or at least they will for dark eldar.

Bear in mind that according the new faq schedule they have worked out they want to do the big ones in march and then the chapter approved in September, so even if there is incosistancies between our faction only strategems and saim-hann for example, I wouldn't expect it to last long
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 22:41

Isn´t there a rule in the core rules saying tha you can only use certain strategems, if you also have at least one detachment of that certain faction/subfaction?
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Ubernoob1
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 22:42

@Archon_91 wrote:
Mm I'm pretty sure because the stratagem says " Kabal of the Black Heart Stratagem" it means you have to take a "Kabal of the Black Heart" detachment to use it ... Same as any other "legion" or "chapter" Stratagem. Much like the example of San-hiem that's been thrown around a lot.

Except other books don't require you to have a "Black Legion" detachment, or a "Saim-hann" detachment to use the stratagems. That's the "problem" where people have taken something like an Alaitoc detachment with an Ynnari detachment, and then use the Saim-hann stratagem on an Ynnari shining spears unit because they gave it the Saim-hann keyword in their list.

So while I am not disagreeing that you should have to take the specific detachment to use the specific stratagem, as the wording in other books currently stand that is not how it is.

@Orasann wrote:
@Ubernoob1 wrote:
Which is fine, but that means they are changing the wording on those specific stratagems, or at least they will for dark eldar.

Bear in mind that according the new faq schedule they have worked out they want to do the big ones in march and then the chapter approved in September, so even if there is incosistancies between our faction only strategems and saim-hann for example, I wouldn't expect it to last long

Which makes perfect sense and I can definitely see that happening. But than that means we've now seen evidence that it is happening.
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Gorefather
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 22:46

@SERAFF wrote:
Regarding the black heart tax.
WHY DO YOU EVEN THINK YOU NEED ANY BH DETACHMENT TO PLAY IT?

Show me the rule where it is stated, that I can't use subfaction stratagems without the actual subfaction

RAW I guess you don't need to bring BH to play the strat, RAI is iffy unless the wording changes in the Codex.

However the warlord trait alone is worth taking, especially since detachments are so easy to mix and match.
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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 22:50

@SERAFF wrote:
Regarding the black heart tax.
WHY DO YOU EVEN THINK YOU NEED ANY BH DETACHMENT TO PLAY IT?

Show me the rule where it is stated, that I can't use subfaction stratagems without the actual subfaction

Ahaha yes the ol' "technically it unlocks all of them" detachment tax. CWE love that one.

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