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 Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 19:25

@the_scotsman wrote:
Since we know the archon is getting a reroll hit rolls of 1 aura, why is it taxy to take a Spearhead of him and 3 Ravagers.

Well, it's yet another HQ you have to buy.

Also, we've yet to learn whether he'll have any mobility - so either your Ravagers can only use about half their movement or else they leave their support-Archon behind.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 19:33

@the_scotsman wrote:
Since we know the archon is getting a reroll hit rolls of 1 aura, why is it taxy to take a Spearhead of him and 3 Ravagers.

What other trait than 6++ you want on Ravagers? Ignores cover on your AP-4 gun? +6" range I guess but I'd rather a 6++, they can just move a bit forward.

Might not effect vehicles, we havent seen the rule yet

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Mikoneo
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 19:33

So according to some people at dakka we should be happy with 7CP's in 2000. Really?
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 19:35

@Mikoneo wrote:
So according to some people at dakka we should be happy with 7CP's in 2000. Really?

Yep. And if we want more, we should be happy giving up all our subfaction bonuses in exchange.
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Archon_91
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 19:43

You have to realize that most of the people commenting on that aren't Drukhari players but instead play imperium ... So the fact that something exists that can mess with them (even a little bit cause come on as strong as that stratagem is, it's really only punishing 1/6th of the time where they actually lose those CP...) is going to greatly offend them
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Ubernoob1
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 19:46

@The Shredder wrote:
@Mikoneo wrote:
So according to some people at dakka we should be happy with 7CP's in 2000. Really?

Yep. And if we want more, we should be happy giving up all our subfaction bonuses in exchange.

Quote :
"How hard would it be for them to just run a brigade?

what do they gain or lose for doing so. if you are doing a butt load of patrolls then you are already taking a bunch of troops."

This combined with the same forum post discussing the CoM stratagem like it's a god send against psykers while almost everyone here is at BEST saying "eh, I'll just keep taking the one out of the index and never pay 2 CP for it because it isn't worth it..."

I've been watching some of the other rumor sites just to see if anyone in comments would get up in arms over our previews, and honestly I saw almost none and was very happy for it. So I hope the above type responses stays minimal to a few random people who don't know anything about Dark Eldar except they just add more power to Ynnari Craftworlders. Rolling Eyes
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Mikoneo
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 19:52

I do agree with ubernoob, it does feel like we're just being judged by what we bring to ynarri since that's all most people know of our army
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Ubernoob1
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 19:56

@Archon_91 wrote:
You have to realize that most of the people commenting on that aren't Drukhari players but instead play imperium ... So the fact that something exists that can mess with them (even a little bit cause come on as strong as that stratagem is, it's really only punishing 1/6th of the time where they actually lose those CP...) is going to greatly offend them

And while I agree we should not really be personally offended, and in some ways can even see this as a compliment. "They fear us again. Rejoice!" But...what my personal fear is is that we now live in a time where the vocal minority has a GREAT deal of power, whether that in the "real" world or in gaming hobbies.

If tournaments don't budge on dark eldar being able to make us of a 6 patrol raiding force, sure that isn't the end of the world. I get that. There are alternatives. But what next? Will Vect's Agents be changed drastically by tournaments or outright banned? *Shrugs* I don't know. Those would be my personal fears, that because dark eldar have one of the lowest player bases we have the least voice and representation. We finally get a ton of awesome, cool things, but because we aren't even "mainstream xenos" (even when orks were or aren't good, they have a huge fan basis for example) let alone imperial types, if tournaments, local groups, or heck even the GW FaQ/Errata team caves...

I just hope the above is pointless speculation and everything will be fine and fun. Smile
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 20:00

The problem with OT saying we cant is that it is IN OUR CODEX that we can.

Why should they say "this one army cant use this core rule for them but all other armies can use their core rules b.c we are scared"


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The Strange Dark One
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 20:02

Honestly, if your whole "strategy" resolves around using a particular strategem you have done something seriously wrong. I suspect that GW gave us this strategem very knowingly what impact it will have.

I wouldnt be surprised if future armies also got a similar stratagem. And I wouldn't mind either, I think it's good for the game as a whole.

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Bibitybopitybacon
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 20:08

@Ubernoob1 wrote:
@Archon_91 wrote:
You have to realize that most of the people commenting on that aren't Drukhari players but instead play imperium ... So the fact that something exists that can mess with them (even a little bit cause come on as strong as that stratagem is, it's really only punishing 1/6th of the time where they actually lose those CP...) is going to greatly offend them

And while I agree we should not really be personally offended, and in some ways can even see this as a compliment. "They fear us again. Rejoice!" But...what my personal fear is is that we now live in a time where the vocal minority has a GREAT deal of power, whether that in the "real" world or in gaming hobbies.

If tournaments don't budge on dark eldar being able to make us of a 6 patrol raiding force, sure that isn't the end of the world. I get that. There are alternatives. But what next? Will Vect's Agents be changed drastically by tournaments or outright banned? *Shrugs* I don't know. Those would be my personal fears, that because dark eldar have one of the lowest player bases we have the least voice and representation. We finally get a ton of awesome, cool things, but because we aren't even "mainstream xenos" (even when orks were or aren't good, they have a huge fan basis for example) let alone imperial types, if tournaments, local groups, or heck even the GW FaQ/Errata team caves...

I just hope the above is pointless speculation and everything will be fine and fun. Smile

Small vocal minorities have always had an outsized impact on everything throughout history. The American revolution was actively supported by a small minority of colonists. Same but worst with the French revolutiom. Lets not forget Nazis or communism either. All we can do is make sure our voices are heard and vote with our wallets...
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Dalakh
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 20:28

@Mppqlmd wrote:
- Onslaught : hmm, okayish. If there is a way to give them a hit bonus, then okay. If not, it's pretty weak.

It's unmodified 6, so yeah it just sucks ass. Doesn't even synergize with Drazhar's +1 to hit aura which was already trash since it didn't synergize with either himself or Klaivex and not even Incubi turn 3 onwards.

Really those are plain disappointing or expected at best, here's to hoping there's better stuff overall in the codex.
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Archon_91
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 20:39

Mm actually I think that's why they put in the "unmodified) hit of a 6 ... From turn 3 onward that would be 4+ (with Drazhar near by) for that effect and on Incubi ... That would be a bit broken as a 5 man squad would be able to put out 24 ap-3 str 4 attacks (16 base with 1/2 chance to get double the hits) so ... Pretty close to full Marine squads gone and we can't have <90 points of Xenos obliterate >90 points of marines in one round of combat
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Dalakh
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 20:48

@Archon_91 wrote:
Mm actually I think that's why they put in the "unmodified) hit of a 6 ... From turn 3 onward that would be 4+ (with Drazhar near by) for that effect and on Incubi ... That would be a bit broken as a 5 man squad would be able to put out 24 ap-3 str 4 attacks (16 base with 1/2 chance to get double the hits) so ... Pretty close to full Marine squads gone and we can't have <90 points of Xenos obliterate >90 points of marines in one round of combat

OK, fair enough, but then just remove the useless +1 to hit on Drazhar and give him a 1 to hit reroll aura for Incubi units.
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 20:50

@Archon_91 wrote:
Mm actually I think that's why they put in the "unmodified) hit of a 6 ... From turn 3 onward that would be 4+ (with Drazhar near by) for that effect and on Incubi ... That would be a bit broken as a 5 man squad would be able to put out 24 ap-3 str 4 attacks (16 base with 1/2 chance to get double the hits) so ... Pretty close to full Marine squads gone and we can't have <90 points of Xenos obliterate >90 points of marines in one round of combat

I would be willing to pay slightly more for Incubi even if their gimmick hinged on a single stratagem. Put the fear of god into someone when your beatsticks jump straight into your doomstack and start shredding everything in their path. Even if you only use it once, they would clear through such a huge chunk of the enemy's forces.
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 20:50

At bigger points ratio (if I'm running 6 patrols and not 3), investing one of those patrols into Black Heart to get the WL trait and increase my CP capital by 33% would be something i'm ready to do. But only if I already have 10+ CPs.

"Agents of Vect" is more of an opportunity that looks very menacing for your enemy. He can't trust his own stratagems, and that's highly disturbing. You don't have to play it at all, but the menace that any crucial stratagem can be canceled will make him spend more ressources (just to make sure), and ultimately will alter his play in your favor.
And if he doesn't... a single "Agents of Vect" can make the game, IMO. For example, canceling the resurrection of the Avatar of Khaine Very Happy

But taking Black Heart is mostly to GET more CPs. Then you have that stratagem, that you are not forced to use, but that looks pleasant.



For a 2000pts game, you can get an absurd amount of CPs buy running 5 Haemies (spend 1 CP to get a WLtrait, gain 1d3 CPs) and 1 Archon from the Black Heart. You'll have between 11 and 21 CP, + the "gain a CP on a 6 for you and your opponent". That is A LOT of CPs that you can spend to cancel your opponent"s plan.

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Dark Elf Dave
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 20:50

The Vect strat is feeling so sneaky fun!

Im gonna buy more coven and more wyches and more and more stuff and then wonder how will i ever get all this painted when i haven't even finished the stuff I've already got!
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 20:52

@Skulnbonz wrote:
From a tournament perspective:
the crucible was meh anyway, no big deal.
The Agents of Vect : say goodbye to zombie armies. As of now, they are not going to be fielded as tournament level anymore.  All because of this one little strategem.
Soul trap- Better in every way. No longer have to pay for it unless you want to. Almost the end of the game? pass. Game already in the bag? Pass. Need a beatstick? ok, i will use it now.

If tournaments allow us to take what we need to take, we will be golden.
If not, we are still, as of right now, 300% + better than we were last week.
No Question.

I'm good.

QFT. The amount of whining in this thread is hilarious. Our army just stepped up to the plate in a big way and that's without knowing the REST of the codex. Of course the same thing could be said about my own statement, but not much is making me think otherwise. All aboard the pain train!

These are all good things. TONS of flavor, TONS of options, its hard to complain about this when you look at the whole picture that we know so far. Overall this is all trending positive. Most armies don't get crap in their preview...we got loads. Coming from playing marines, I'm so jazzed by how COOL and EXCITING all of this is. I look at marines and go: 'why didn't I get any really cool strategems...why do I seem more vanilla than a human being with a fething lasgun.' Be happy friends!

Also I don't understand the hate on black heart...second best cp refund program in the game, a great strategem and more to learn. CP runs this game at some level, exploiting that is not only fluffy but it is powerful.

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Dark Elf Dave
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 20:53

Can we quickly go over the warlord rule where if you have 3 you spend 1CP to make them warlords right...but what happens if you have another 3? Are all 6 warlords?
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 21:00

@Dark Elf Dave wrote:
Can we quickly go over the warlord rule where if you have 3 you spend 1CP to make them warlords right...but what happens if you have another 3? Are all 6 warlords?

Only one Haemy and one Succubus each time. That being said it seems you can use it twice to buff 2 Succubi and 2 Haemies if you really want.

EDIT: Actually that makes me wonder if you can choose the trait to regain CP twice on the haemie as a cheeky way to boost to CP count to high heavens.


Last edited by Dalakh on Fri Mar 30 2018, 21:03; edited 1 time in total
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Archon_91
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 21:00

Well now I actually need color schemes for my stuff :/ if I'm gonna run a patrol of Black Heart, and then of Flayed skull I will need a way to differentiate them ... Well if Trueborn truely are gone I guess I have three ready to go color schemes that I can match to the kabal and will then have to come up with a fourth
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Dark Elf Dave
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 21:07

Also wondered how many of you will start taking Draz more now? Potentially pretty nasty chap in the codex.
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 21:08

@Archon_91 wrote:
Well now I actually need color schemes for my stuff :/ if I'm gonna run a patrol of Black Heart, and then of Flayed skull I will need a way to differentiate them ... Well if Trueborn truely are gone I guess I have three ready to go color schemes that I can match to the kabal and will then have to come up with a fourth

When running more than one kabal, I'll probably use 3rd ed minis as one kabal, and current sculpt as the other.
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Leninade
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 21:14

Trueborn can be gone from the codex and still be legal unit options at the same time. They sort of wrote themselves into a corner on this one
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Dark Elf Dave
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 21:17

Black Heart are dark green yeah? I can't paint green I'm green colour blind I find it very difficult.

I am thinking of having a unique colour on squad leaders to define different obsessions. I would still prefer DE armies to look as uniformed as possible for aesthetic reasons. Purple Kabals, red Wyches and dark red Coven...I wouldn't want to start adding more different colours than that.
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