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 Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 17:27

@Dark Elf Dave wrote:
I think I would prefer to take a Black Heart Archon with all my Ravagers in his detachment so that they all get the 6++.

Because they don't really need any of the buffs from the other Kabal obsessions. Extra speed? Nope. Extra range? Nope. 6++ is best for them because they are a targeted unit.

What about Ignores Cover?
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zergavas
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 17:30

I like the new way to use soul trap, but i hate to use a command point for it. Before if i purchest it i almost never got to use it.

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Rodi Sikni
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 17:31

@Dark Elf Dave wrote:
I think I would prefer to take a Black Heart Archon with all my Ravagers in his detachment so that they all get the 6++.

Because they don't really need any of the buffs from the other Kabal obsessions. Extra speed? Nope. Extra range? Nope. 6++ is best for them because they are a targeted unit.

Some people have short memories. Few months back it was all "poison is rubbish it needs new rules, I hate poison, my Kabalites are rubbish".

Now it's like Black Heart are a tax on my army because I'm forced to choose between them and re-rolling 1's to hit with the worst gun in my army.

Only kidding people I love you really. Black Heart are pretty good though IMO.

LoL!, truth is choose between a 3CP stratagem and re roll 1s to wound or ignore cover. And in my particular case, I prefer any of these two benefits that are free of CP and massive useful to our standard weapon, precisely because that stops making it the worst weapon in the game
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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 17:32

Ignores cover on a -4weapon doesn't compete with the Black Heart Benefits in my mind.

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 17:33

@amishprn86 wrote:
But Soul traps are costly anyways

I'd hardly call 10pts costly. Neutral

And even if you think it's too costly, there's no reason why it would have to stay at that price. It could easily come down further.

@amishprn86 wrote:
and you always pay the points if you use or dont use it

Sure. But I consider 10pts far less than 1CP. Especially when the latter has to be paid multiple times.

@amishprn86 wrote:
CP is a good way to save on points and if you ended up actually killing a character you can use it, (more important now if you are using 2-3 Archons).

Except that, if you're so concerned about resources that you consider 10pts 'costly', you'll never use it. Not least because the return on your investment is abysmal.

Also, I never felt obliged to pay for the Soul Trap on every Archon. Only the one with a Huskblade.
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PFI
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 17:34

Guys, can't a haemonc take the old crucible? It's an upgrade with rules in the index and you can take all index options not listed in a codex. So am I missing something? Can't you take the upgrade AND even then use the strategem?
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 17:36

@The Shredder wrote:


Also, I never felt obliged to pay for the Soul Trap on every Archon. Only the one with a Huskblade.

In which case, +1S and +1A are definitely useful. 4S allows you to wound MEQ on 4's, and wound up to T7 on 5's, while the +1A will give you more chances to get those 1d3D wounds in.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 17:38

@krayd wrote:
In which case, +1S and +1A are definitely useful. 4S allows you to wound MEQ on 4's, and wound up to T7 on 5's, while the +1A will give you more chances to get those 1d3D wounds in.

It would be useful as a ~10pt upgrade that can activate multiple times per battle.

As a Stratagem that eats up valuable CPs? Not a chance.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 17:39

@The Shredder wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
But Soul traps are costly anyways

I'd hardly call 10pts costly. Neutral

And even if you think it's too costly, there's no reason why it would have to stay at that price. It could easily come down further.

@amishprn86 wrote:
and you always pay the points if you use or dont use it

Sure. But I consider 10pts far less than 1CP. Especially when the latter has to be paid multiple times.

@amishprn86 wrote:
CP is a good way to save on points and if you ended up actually killing a character you can use it, (more important now if you are using 2-3 Archons).

Except that, if you're so concerned about resources that you consider 10pts 'costly', you'll never use it. Not least because the return on your investment is abysmal.

Also, I never felt obliged to pay for the Soul Trap on every Archon. Only the one with a Huskblade.

And i never take Huskblades b.c they never wound for me, another thing different from us.

Well for me the new Soul Trap is better, i cant justify spending points on something that works once out of 20 games.

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Skulnbonz
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 17:43

From a tournament perspective:
the crucible was meh anyway, no big deal.
The Agents of Vect : say goodbye to zombie armies. As of now, they are not going to be fielded as tournament level anymore. All because of this one little strategem.
Soul trap- Better in every way. No longer have to pay for it unless you want to. Almost the end of the game? pass. Game already in the bag? Pass. Need a beatstick? ok, i will use it now.

If tournaments allow us to take what we need to take, we will be golden.
If not, we are still, as of right now, 300% + better than we were last week.
No Question.

I'm good.

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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 17:50

@amishprn86 wrote:

And i never take Huskblades b.c they never wound for me, another thing different from us.

To be quite honest, it was as much to differentiate my HQs than for any practical purpose.

That said, it did work for me a few times in 7th with Soul Trap, on the occasions when I actually used an Archon.

The thing is, in 7th, I rarely bothered with an Archon at all - usually I just used a Lhamaean.

I haven't used the Huskblade in 8th because its current statline is terrible and the index contained no Soul Trap or other means to improve it.

@amishprn86 wrote:

Well for me the new Soul Trap is better, i cant justify spending points on something that works once out of 20 games.

Each to their own. I'd much prefer to buy my Soul Traps before the game and be able to use them freely should the opportunity arise - rather than only ever being able to activate them by spending valuable CPs.

Oh well, one more fun little wargear option down the toilet. At least it won't be lonely.
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Bad-baden-baden
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 18:04

@The Shredder wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:

And i never take Huskblades b.c they never wound for me, another thing different from us.

To be quite honest, it was as much to differentiate my HQs than for any practical purpose.

That said, it did work for me a few times in 7th with Soul Trap, on the occasions when I actually used an Archon.

The thing is, in 7th, I rarely bothered with an Archon at all - usually I just used a Lhamaean.

I haven't used the Huskblade in 8th because its current statline is terrible and the index contained no Soul Trap or other means to improve it.

@amishprn86 wrote:

Well for me the new Soul Trap is better, i cant justify spending points on something that works once out of 20 games.

I'm positively praying that the huskblade is S + 1. That will be a big make or break for my thoughts on the Archon.
Each to their own. I'd much prefer to buy my Soul Traps before the game and be able to use them freely should the opportunity arise - rather than only ever being able to activate them by spending valuable CPs.

Oh well, one more fun little wargear option down the toilet. At least it won't be lonely.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 18:13

@Bad-baden-baden wrote:

I'm positively praying that the huskblade is S + 1. That will be a big make or break for my thoughts on the Archon.

It definitely needs some sort of buff.

However, this line doesn't fill me with hope:

"Archons are already some of the most brutal combatants in the 41st Millennium"

What.
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 18:18

Quote :
It definitely needs some sort of buff.

However, this line doesn't fill me with hope:

"Archons are already some of the most brutal combatants in the 41st Millennium"

What

My Archon regularly loses combat with IG Tech Priests. That confused the hell out of me too.

Optimistic me thinks they might be referring to the fluff, but I'm not sure.

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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 18:22

I would argue the extra range from the Obsidian Rose is valuable to keep your new extra heavy/special weapons team kabalite warriors at a safe range from charges (looking at you Custodes HQ on bike). That would make blasters 24 inch range.

I believe I will be playing as Black Heart though since our army gets shot off objectives so easily and having fearless one round earlier to get the points can secure a win when playing in a tournament setting. Plus 6+++ save on vehicles.

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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 18:24

Hi, I am long time lurker here just registered to point this out:

Look at Drazhar strategem...DO YOU SEE IT? it say when he charges in Charge phase (implying he can charge in other phases)

Meaning, I think that there will be strategem that lets you charge after your opponent DS near you

Makes sense since the french guys were talking about wyches, they said they are gonna be used as bubblewrap...who would use such a costly bubblewrap without this exact option?
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 18:25

I dont need fearless sadly, and i still want to get within Rapid range, getting +3" to that is more important to me.

I play tested a few yesterday and for sure the extra range help more than the others.


@Zumikito wrote:
Hi, I am long time lurker here just registered to point this out:

Look at Drazhar strategem...DO YOU SEE IT? it say when he charges in Charge phase (implying he can charge in other phases)

Meaning, I think that there will be strategem that lets you charge after your opponent DS near you

Makes sense since the french guys were talking about wyches, they said they are gonna be used as bubblewrap...who would use such a costly bubblewrap without this exact option?

Might be, but with GW rules writing its hard to even say.

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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 18:25

Quote :
Look at Drazhar strategem...DO YOU SEE IT? it say when he charges in Charge phase (implying he can charge in other phases)

It's not even a stratagem. It's his basic rule. For free. That's the goody.

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Dark Elf Dave
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 18:31

@The Shredder wrote:
@Dark Elf Dave wrote:
I think I would prefer to take a Black Heart Archon with all my Ravagers in his detachment so that they all get the 6++.

Because they don't really need any of the buffs from the other Kabal obsessions. Extra speed? Nope. Extra range? Nope. 6++ is best for them because they are a targeted unit.

What about Ignores Cover?

I can't see cover helping vs my dark lance Twisted Evil
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 18:48

Here's a quick go (old Battlescribe prices) on a small BH vanguard detattchment:

Dedicated Transport [4 PL, 95pts]
Venom [4 PL, 95pts]
Selections: Splinter Cannon [15pts], Splinter Cannon [15pts]

HQ [4 PL, 58pts]
Archon [4 PL, 58pts]
Selections: Agoniser [4pts], Hatred Eternal, Splinter pistol, Warlord

Elites [13 PL, 221pts]
Mandrakes [5 PL, 95pts]
Selections: 4x Mandrake [76pts], Nightfiend [19pts]

Mandrakes [5 PL, 95pts]
Selections: 4x Mandrake [76pts], Nightfiend [19pts]

Sslyth [3 PL, 31pts]

Camp at the back with the Sslyth and a -1, 6++ Venom, while the Mandrakes get a turn 1 charge
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 18:54

It's not a patrol, so it won't count for your "3 patrols => 4 CP".

And Mandrakes/Scourges/incubi are not affected by obsessions.

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Bad-baden-baden
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 18:54

@TheMortician wrote:
Here's a quick go (old Battlescribe prices) on a small BH vanguard detattchment:

Dedicated Transport [4 PL, 95pts]
Venom [4 PL, 95pts]
Selections: Splinter Cannon [15pts], Splinter Cannon [15pts]

HQ [4 PL, 58pts]
Archon [4 PL, 58pts]
Selections: Agoniser [4pts], Hatred Eternal, Splinter pistol, Warlord

Elites [13 PL, 221pts]
Mandrakes [5 PL, 95pts]
Selections: 4x Mandrake [76pts], Nightfiend [19pts]

Mandrakes [5 PL, 95pts]
Selections: 4x Mandrake [76pts], Nightfiend [19pts]

Sslyth [3 PL, 31pts]

Camp at the back with the Sslyth and a -1, 6++ Venom, while the Mandrakes get a turn 1 charge

Mandrakes don't benefit from Obsessions, so, it wouldn't be any more likely mandrakes get a T1 charge than mandrakes in any other Kabal.
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TheMortician
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 19:01

@Mppqlmd wrote:
It's not a patrol, so it won't count for your "3 patrols => 4 CP".

And Mandrakes/Scourges/incubi are not affected by obsessions.

I was thinking Batallion ++

But good point on the Obsessions. Bummer
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 19:21

Well that was quick:

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/753879.page

How dare Dark Eldar have good things!
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Stratagems   Fri Mar 30 2018, 19:22

Since we know the archon is getting a reroll hit rolls of 1 aura, why is it taxy to take a Spearhead of him and 3 Ravagers.

What other trait than 6++ you want on Ravagers? Ignores cover on your AP-4 gun? +6" range I guess but I'd rather a 6++, they can just move a bit forward.
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