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amishprn86
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PostSubject: GW list of most improved   Thu Mar 29 2018, 17:17


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TheBaconPope
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PostSubject: Re: GW list of most improved   Thu Mar 29 2018, 17:22

Mandrakes are on the most improved list? Aren't they already the highest preforming unit we have on average? Not that I'm complaining of course..

Looks like Reavers will be getting a price cut, probably little else, though. I'm interested to see what they're going to do with that Talos, really, anything less than a total redesign offensively probably won't make it good again

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lament.config
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PostSubject: Re: GW list of most improved   Thu Mar 29 2018, 17:23

Lots of points reductions. This is shaping up to be a really good release.
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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: GW list of most improved   Thu Mar 29 2018, 17:29

A SIGNIFICANT pts reduction for reavers? O yes yes that's awesome news. Mandrakes and scourges didn't really need the improvement but hey I'll take it. Also welcome news to hear the Talos is up there for changes, it badly needed it. Interested to see if the cronos will be improved as well though.

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Myrvn
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PostSubject: Re: GW list of most improved   Thu Mar 29 2018, 17:47

It looks like the Scourge note just mentions that Blasters were improved. But that still seems solid.
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Bad-baden-baden
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PostSubject: Re: GW list of most improved   Thu Mar 29 2018, 17:57

Even if all they do to the Talos is buff its T to 8 (with haemonculus buff), that's enough to convince me to run them. T8, 4++ is a solid anvil that many armies will have difficulty getting through! Great unit to tie up that big swarm of genestealers/orks.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: GW list of most improved   Thu Mar 29 2018, 18:45

does it also get the 5++ and potential 4++?
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Bad-baden-baden
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PostSubject: Re: GW list of most improved   Thu Mar 29 2018, 18:47

@CptMetal wrote:
does it also get the 5++ and potential 4++?

A talos? Absolutely
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Hen Tai, the tentacle guy
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PostSubject: Re: GW list of most improved   Thu Mar 29 2018, 19:27

Sigh! I guess I have to glue together my four talos and two cronos now. And the rest of my mountain of unglued grey plastic shame. I think I have around 8000 points of drukhari laying around that need assembly.

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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: GW list of most improved   Thu Mar 29 2018, 19:31

If reaver ONLY get point reduction, I'm disappointed. No matter the point cost, if reavers are harmless, they are useless.
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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: GW list of most improved   Thu Mar 29 2018, 19:34

Leave it to GW to make up a list of their own mistakes, claim to have fixed them, and then pat themselves on the back for it.

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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: GW list of most improved   Thu Mar 29 2018, 19:38

8,000pts?? Wow that's a lot. If the changes about the talos turn out really good I'll definetly be grabbing one to go alongside my new wracks and haemonculus.

You're saying if reavers go down to something like 20-25 range of pts, you wouldn't use them? They are s4 ap-1 with the potential for 3 attacks, I think that's pretty solid, especially considering the blaster is better for them now. They also don't have to kill a whole lot if they can just tie things up turn one.

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: GW list of most improved   Thu Mar 29 2018, 19:43

If Reavers were 25pt i wouldnt even use them in fun games, at 20pts i would for fun games. Thats how bad they are IMO.

They dont do damage, 2 attacks at -1ap and a splinter rifle isnt anything good for 20pts, i can just take Mandrakes, i dont need turn 1 charges to tie up units, tying up units isnt a good tactic anymore unless its against IG tank spam.

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Hen Tai, the tentacle guy
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PostSubject: Re: GW list of most improved   Thu Mar 29 2018, 19:44

A bonus through 7th ed. was that the local plastic store wasn't able to sell the dark eldar stuff, so it was always on sale, and I have no self control.

the better blasters plus the bonus movement, makes character hunting even better with reavers now. I have 15 painted up, so I cant wait to use them now!

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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: GW list of most improved   Thu Mar 29 2018, 19:46

I have to disagree, tying up units is incredibly useful for me. I've been doing it with razorwing flocks but they can't make a turn one charge, if reavers can that's mighty useful.

Also not sure how many pts you want them to do down to if you don't think 20 is reasonable. Maybe 18? Can't see them going much lower with their stats. I've used reavers a lot just because I often don't have something else to take, and yeah they are stupidly overpriced right now but they do alright. Stack on an upcoming pts reduction and wych traits, they definetly sound more enticing to me.

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: GW list of most improved   Thu Mar 29 2018, 19:51

@Lord Asvaldir wrote:
I have to disagree, tying up units is incredibly useful for me. I've been doing it with razorwing flocks but they can't make a turn one charge, if reavers can that's mighty useful.

Also not sure how many pts you want them to do down to if you don't think 20 is reasonable. Maybe 18? Can't see them going much lower with their stats. I've used reavers a lot just because I often don't have something else to take, and yeah they are stupidly overpriced right now but they do alright. Stack on an upcoming pts reduction and wych traits, they definetly sound more enticing to me.

18 is my magic number. But my problem is... there are no army lists i play against or seen (other than teaching games) that has units to tie up.

Its either bubble wrap, hordes, elite killing units, or ones that dont care if you charge them.

Armies i fight:
Daemons, orks, BA, nids, all want to be close and in melee
CWE, DE, have fly and bubble wrap/melee
2 CSM players that just have large amounts of cultist and DS everything else basically
2 Guards that play tanks but also have anti turn 1 charges/melee (due to Orks, BA, harlequins, cwe, etc..)
The only 2 SM players play hyper shooting lists, their meat are DSing uits as wel, so.. charging 5-10 scouts doesnt do anything.

For me, a 100pt unit to turn 1 charge with very little damage its pointless.

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Hen Tai, the tentacle guy
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PostSubject: Re: GW list of most improved   Thu Mar 29 2018, 19:52

I'm thinking they will be around 20-25 points per bike. The points reduction on the wyches wasn't huge, so I'm not expecting much on the reavers either. I'm actually more curious with what they have done with the talos and cronos. I they are hugely improved, I might start using less ravagers in my lists.

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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: GW list of most improved   Thu Mar 29 2018, 20:04

Well keep in mind the FB post said reavers get a "significant" reduction, implying they will get a much bigger reduction that wyches, which they definetly need.

@amishprn86 wrote:
@Lord Asvaldir wrote:
I have to disagree, tying up units is incredibly useful for me. I've been doing it with razorwing flocks but they can't make a turn one charge, if reavers can that's mighty useful.

Also not sure how many pts you want them to do down to if you don't think 20 is reasonable. Maybe 18? Can't see them going much lower with their stats. I've used reavers a lot just because I often don't have something else to take, and yeah they are stupidly overpriced right now but they do alright. Stack on an upcoming pts reduction and wych traits, they definetly sound more enticing to me.

18 is my magic number. But my problem is... there are no army lists i play against or seen (other than teaching games) that has units to tie up.

Its either bubble wrap, hordes, elite killing units, or ones that dont care if you charge them.

Armies i fight:
Daemons, orks, BA, nids, all want to be close and in melee
CWE, DE, have fly and bubble wrap/melee
2 CSM players that just have large amounts of cultist and DS everything else basically
2 Guards that play tanks but also have anti turn 1 charges/melee (due to Orks, BA, harlequins, cwe, etc..)
The only 2 SM players play hyper shooting lists, their meat are DSing uits as wel, so.. charging 5-10 scouts doesnt do anything.

For me, a 100pt unit to turn 1 charge with very little damage its pointless.

That's fair. I've found personally though that there's always something for me to tie up- a backfield predator, some taurox primes, other tanks/heavy shooting units, so I can't really see a game where a speedy push forward like that wouldn't be useful. 18 sounds like a lot to ask though, that's basically half their current cost so I think somewhere around 24 is more reasonable. Probably too expensive to take say 12, but I'll definetly keep in my unit of 6.

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: GW list of most improved   Thu Mar 29 2018, 20:22

Yeah... no one at my local if it can be tied up, it doesnt get played lol.

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PostSubject: Re: GW list of most improved   Thu Mar 29 2018, 20:32

Reavers at 25 will be nice. At 21 will be great! Low, will be broken!!
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Bad-baden-baden
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PostSubject: Re: GW list of most improved   Thu Mar 29 2018, 20:32

@Cerve wrote:
Reavers at 25 will be nice. At 21 will be great! Low, will be broken!!

25 they'd still be reallly bad. They shouldn't be much more than 20.
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: GW list of most improved   Thu Mar 29 2018, 20:34

Depends on what their weapons do. Let's remember HL and Blasters are assault.

So you could move 26, shoot at -1 some heavy weaponry, then engage target to bog it down.

I'd like the Grav-Talon/CCT to be enhanced as well. I love those things.

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PostSubject: Re: GW list of most improved   Thu Mar 29 2018, 20:34

Quote :
Reavers at 25 will be nice. At 21 will be great! Low, will be broken!!

Even with tactics, I doubt I'll take them in their current stats if they were bloody 12 points. They're a little less awful now, but that's only because of changes to the blaster.

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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: GW list of most improved   Thu Mar 29 2018, 20:35

Well considering windriders are what 23pts? Yeah, I could see them going down to 20ish since windriders have better shooting output than reavers.

If they were 12pts I rather doubt that, that low of a price for a jetbike model would be absurd.

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PostSubject: Re: GW list of most improved   Thu Mar 29 2018, 20:37

@Lord Asvaldir wrote:
Well considering windriders are what 23pts? Yeah, I could see them going down to 20ish since windriders have better shooting output than reavers.

If they were 12pts I rather doubt that, that low of a price for a jetbike model would be absurd.

At 12 points, I would START to consider them.
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