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 Codex Drukhari Preview: Wych Cults

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Lord Asvaldir
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Wych Cults   Codex Drukhari Preview: Wych Cults - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 29 2018, 16:07

Why wouldn't they be able to attack a unit they haven't charge? If they can pile into another unit, I'd say they could.

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shadowseercB
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Wych Cults   Codex Drukhari Preview: Wych Cults - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 29 2018, 16:08

@Count Adhemar wrote:
6++ against shooting - well it's better than nothing I suppose!

Yeah, hopefully they made some changes to transports to make them more durable or gave us something to improve the chance of wych's getting in to combat. The points cost reduction is nice but it should have been that ways from the start.

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Crazy_Ivan
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Wych Cults   Codex Drukhari Preview: Wych Cults - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 29 2018, 16:08

Phial bouquet could be a poison applied to the blades of a warlords weapons?
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Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Wych Cults   Codex Drukhari Preview: Wych Cults - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 29 2018, 16:10

@Lord Asvaldir wrote:
Why wouldn't they be able to attack a unit they haven't charge? If they can pile into another unit, I'd say they could.

Because the combat rules say you can only attack a unit in the fight phase that you charged in the previous charge phase.

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shadowseercB
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Wych Cults   Codex Drukhari Preview: Wych Cults - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 29 2018, 16:12

@Lord Asvaldir wrote:
Why wouldn't they be able to attack a unit they haven't charge? If they can pile into another unit, I'd say they could.

Units pile in, or consolidate, after they attack anyway. Rules as Written you can only attack units you charged. Nothing is preventing you from charging more than one unit that is in range just get ready for that crazy conscript/Tau overwatch.

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HERO
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Wych Cults   Codex Drukhari Preview: Wych Cults - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 29 2018, 16:12

Well.. I predicted 5++ and 4++ in CC, but this doesn't seem to be the case Very Happy

The 6++ I guess is fine.. and with PFP might be somewhat decent, but the Wyches overall look decent as a unit whereas before they were just straight trash.

At least the Hekatrix I'm thinking can still carry the PGL/Blast Pistol which is now D6 damage so that's OK, and an Agonizer somewhere won't be too bad.  Speaking of which, we need a weapons/points preview!

Like for example, why the F is our Archite Glaive -1 to our hit roll.

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Wych Cults   Codex Drukhari Preview: Wych Cults - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 29 2018, 16:22

@Bad-baden-baden wrote:
The greatest travesty of this codex will be if our transport capacities don't increase.

I would say the greater travesty would be if our HQs still have no sodding mobility options.
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Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Wych Cults   Codex Drukhari Preview: Wych Cults - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 29 2018, 16:23

@The Shredder wrote:
@Bad-baden-baden wrote:
The greatest travesty of this codex will be if our transport capacities don't increase.

I would say the greater travesty would be if our HQs still have no sodding mobility options.

Sadly, I strongly suspect this is going to fall into the 5% disappointment that ESE referred to.

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clively
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Wych Cults   Codex Drukhari Preview: Wych Cults - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 29 2018, 16:24

@HERO wrote:
The 6++ I guess is fine.. and with PFP might be somewhat decent, but the Wyches overall look decent as a unit whereas before they were just straight trash.

All I've ever asked for in this book is a chance. The changes are sounding like they are giving us that chance.

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the_scotsman
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Wych Cults   Codex Drukhari Preview: Wych Cults - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 29 2018, 16:25

Here's my maximum Wych Troll maneuver.
Take a unit of 10 wyches with Yvraine in a raider (imagining for a moment 11 capacity raiders)
Double their drugs, let's say they have attack drugs, so they're 5A apiece. Hop them out of their raider and advance them, going an average of 14". Get them within 4" of something.

Word of the pheonix. Pile in, avoiding overwatch entirely, make your 51 attacks.

Fight phase, pile in, attack 51 times again, kill something.
Soulburst, 51 more attacks, kill something again. Strife strat.
51 more attacks.

10 models. 41 inches of possible movement. 204 possible attacks.

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Wych Cults   Codex Drukhari Preview: Wych Cults - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 29 2018, 16:25

@Count Adhemar wrote:
@The Shredder wrote:
@Bad-baden-baden wrote:
The greatest travesty of this codex will be if our transport capacities don't increase.

I would say the greater travesty would be if our HQs still have no sodding mobility options.

Sadly, I strongly suspect this is going to fall into the 5% disappointment that ESE referred to.

If that's the case, then I stand by my pessimism. Evil or Very Mad
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Bad-baden-baden
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Wych Cults   Codex Drukhari Preview: Wych Cults - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 29 2018, 16:31

@The Shredder wrote:
@Count Adhemar wrote:
@The Shredder wrote:
@Bad-baden-baden wrote:
The greatest travesty of this codex will be if our transport capacities don't increase.

I would say the greater travesty would be if our HQs still have no sodding mobility options.

Sadly, I strongly suspect this is going to fall into the 5% disappointment that ESE referred to.

If that's the case, then I stand by my pessimism. Evil or Very Mad

Extra transport options - outside of potentially a jetpack like relic - probably won't be in the codex. I'm okay with that so long as our HQ's can fit in the bloody transports! I'm tired of the "Loveshack" or my succubus running after the transport while her wyches laugh at her for missing the bus...
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Rhivan
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Wych Cults   Codex Drukhari Preview: Wych Cults - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 29 2018, 16:32

@the_scotsman wrote:
Here's my maximum Wych Troll maneuver.
Take a unit of 10 wyches with Yvraine in a raider (imagining for a moment 11 capacity raiders)
Double their drugs, let's say they have attack drugs, so they're 5A apiece. Hop them out of their raider and advance them, going an average of 14". Get them within 4" of something.

Word of the pheonix. Pile in, avoiding overwatch entirely, make your 51 attacks.

Fight phase, pile in, attack 51 times again, kill something.
Soulburst, 51 more attacks, kill something again. Strife strat.
51 more attacks.

10 models. 41 inches of possible movement. 204 possible attacks.

Can't you only soulburst with a unit once per turn? Word of the Pheonix to pile in would trigger a soulburst. So this strat banks on soulbursting with the same unit twice and that is not possible.
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Ubernoob1
Kabalite Warrior
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Wych Cults   Codex Drukhari Preview: Wych Cults - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 29 2018, 16:34

My 2 cents: on the Wych Cult of strife trait I think it's fine since yesterday it seemed almost everyone agreed +1 attack was better than +1 strength (or again, that's what I remember seeing. My apologies if I'm mistaken). So to me this sounds like it equalised that slightly.

On the fight a second time stratagem: same price as most if not all of the other fight twice stratagrms that I've seen. Has the "must kill a unit condition" but not only can be used for ranged (reavers with blasters? Razorwing jetfighter/Voidraven bomber?) But the melee fighting happens immediatelyinstead of having to wait until the end of the phase where that squad of wyches may already be dead or dying from that second unit that you charged.
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Caldera02
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Wych Cults   Codex Drukhari Preview: Wych Cults - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 29 2018, 16:34

@Rhivan wrote:
@the_scotsman wrote:
Here's my maximum Wych Troll maneuver.
Take a unit of 10 wyches with Yvraine in a raider (imagining for a moment 11 capacity raiders)
Double their drugs, let's say they have attack drugs, so they're 5A apiece. Hop them out of their raider and advance them, going an average of 14". Get them within 4" of something.

Word of the pheonix. Pile in, avoiding overwatch entirely, make your 51 attacks.

Fight phase, pile in, attack 51 times again, kill something.
Soulburst, 51 more attacks, kill something again. Strife strat.
51 more attacks.

10 models. 41 inches of possible movement. 204 possible attacks.

Can't you only soulburst with a unit once per turn? Word of the Pheonix to pile in would trigger a soulburst. So this strat banks on soulbursting with the same unit twice and that is not possible.

Also, it's not a Pile In move, it's a charge move. So would trigger overwatch as normal. at 51 attacks, str 3 that will cause on average 11 wounds to T4. alot of investment for so so results probably.
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Shride
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Shride

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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Wych Cults   Codex Drukhari Preview: Wych Cults - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 29 2018, 16:35

@Count Adhemar wrote:
@The Shredder wrote:
@Bad-baden-baden wrote:
The greatest travesty of this codex will be if our transport capacities don't increase.

I would say the greater travesty would be if our HQs still have no sodding mobility options.

Sadly, I strongly suspect this is going to fall into the 5% disappointment that ESE referred to.

My suspicion is similar, but a bit more hopeful.

Capacity 6 Venoms
Capacity 10 Raiders

Also, I see an interesting idea here.

Cult of the Cursed Blade Patrol Detachment
Succubus
10 Wyches w/ +1A Drug

Cult of Strife Patrol Detachment
Succubus
Wyches w/ +1S Drug

That would give 2 Wych units w/ 4 S4 attacks each, 2 Succubi (however they pan out) and 2/3 of the way to 4 CP.

If you can put them into Cult of Red Grief Raiders (another detachment, so yay 4 CP!), that is first turn charges with the Raiders, tying up units and forcing them to deal with those raiders or get charged by the contents on the following turn, while generally losing firepower from the charged units (FLY, etc. not withstanding).
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the_scotsman
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Wych Cults   Codex Drukhari Preview: Wych Cults - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 29 2018, 16:39

Ah, I thkuhbt the restriction was you can only use each kind of soulburst once per phase.

I am referring to using the "fight as if it's the fight phase" soulburst. Fight phase sequence is Pile In, attack (since the unit didn't charge that turn, there should be no restriction on who they can attack) then consolidate.

Let me double check the rules. If you can indeed only soulburst once per unit per turn that caps the silliness at a possible 153 attacks.
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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Wych Cults   Codex Drukhari Preview: Wych Cults - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 29 2018, 16:40

I'll get a Cult of Strife Tantalus, and get 12 more disintegrator shots, after the 12 first ones.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Wych Cults   Codex Drukhari Preview: Wych Cults - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 29 2018, 16:43

@Bad-baden-baden wrote:

Extra transport options - outside of potentially a jetpack like relic - probably won't be in the codex.

Then I already hate it.

@Bad-baden-baden wrote:
I'm okay with that so long as our HQ's can fit in the bloody transports!

I'm not okay with it. Regardless of whether our HQs can fit into our transports or not.

If GW can give Necrons a third flying HQ choice, then they are capable of giving us at least one.

@Bad-baden-baden wrote:
I'm tired of the "Loveshack" or my succubus running after the transport while her wyches laugh at her for missing the bus...

And I'm tired of playing a """fast""" army, where our HQs are slower than those of Orks, Necrons, Space Marines, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Grey Knights, Dark Angels, Tau, Tyranids, Chaos, Chaos Daemons, Thousand Sons, Death guard, etc. etc.
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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Wych Cults   Codex Drukhari Preview: Wych Cults - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 29 2018, 16:44

"No Method of Death" into Voidraven. Let's say that Schytes becomes D6 damage as Blaster/Blastpistols...............



Oh I already love this Codex
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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Wych Cults   Codex Drukhari Preview: Wych Cults - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 29 2018, 16:44

Even 20 Hellions at S5 and immunte to morale's check sounds nasty!
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Burnage
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Wych Cults   Codex Drukhari Preview: Wych Cults - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 29 2018, 16:46

If you're already in combat, you could go;
Psychic phase - cast Word of the Phoenix on Wych Cult unit to attack.
No Method of Death Beyond our Grasp strat to attack again if they kill something
Combat phase - normal attacks.
Since it's a different phase, you can then use the strat to attack yet again if they kill something.

It'd be very, very situational but that's a hell of a lot of attacks (and command points).
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Wych Cults   Codex Drukhari Preview: Wych Cults - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 29 2018, 16:47

@Cerve wrote:
Even 20 Hellions at S5 and immunte to morale's check sounds nasty!

Unless there's a particular stratagem you're aiming for, wouldn't 2 units of 10 or 4 units of 5 be better?
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Wych Cults   Codex Drukhari Preview: Wych Cults - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 29 2018, 16:47

@The Shredder wrote:
@Cerve wrote:
Even 20 Hellions at S5 and immunte to morale's check sounds nasty!

Unless there's a particular stratagem you're aiming for, wouldn't 2 units of 10 or 4 units of 5 be better?

Drug and doubling it, if we can still pick drugs the same as we can now?

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Imateria
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: Wych Cults   Codex Drukhari Preview: Wych Cults - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 29 2018, 16:51

@the_scotsman wrote:
Ah, I thkuhbt the restriction was you can only use each kind of soulburst once per phase.

I am referring to using the "fight as if it's the fight phase" soulburst. Fight phase sequence is Pile In, attack (since the unit didn't charge that turn, there should be no restriction on who they can attack) then consolidate.

Let me double check the rules. If you can indeed only soulburst once per unit per turn that caps the silliness at a possible 153 attacks.
The FAQ killed that to only 1 unit per your turn.
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