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 Codex: Drukhari Preview: Haemonculus Covens

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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: Codex: Drukhari Preview: Haemonculus Covens   Wed Mar 28 2018, 17:55

Lol that's a solid way to put it. And true, no amount of traits is going to make stuff like the cronos good if it's stats still suck and is overpriced. Still we have plenty of reason to hope for changes, GW is just choosing to focus on previewing our traits which means we may have to wait until release day to see which units are really fixed.

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Xivai
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PostSubject: Re: Codex: Drukhari Preview: Haemonculus Covens   Wed Mar 28 2018, 17:56

Oh man my favourite DE faction looks like the strongest, and I already liked lots of the Kabal previews. This is simply fantastic. However I must say its a night and day difference compared to the Tau and Necron rules how great these are.
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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: Codex: Drukhari Preview: Haemonculus Covens   Wed Mar 28 2018, 17:58

@Mppqlmd wrote:
Chronos, Talos, Grots, liquifier guns, Heat lance, HWB, they all need to change in order to get played.

Putting good rules on the garbage profiles is like putting wipped cream on poop.

It's definitely interesting that we've had so few reveals of based changes to our existing units and weapons.

The only news we've had so far is, what, the buff to Blasters and Scourges?
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Sarkesian
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PostSubject: Re: Codex: Drukhari Preview: Haemonculus Covens   Wed Mar 28 2018, 17:58

I'm actually thinking the Cronos is a viable option for the shooting into combat ability. I try to keep mine out of combat, so they hang back and end up not doing much. So being able to spirit siphon or vortex into combat is a nice little perk. Those shooting attacks are not terrible.
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Mikoneo
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PostSubject: Re: Codex: Drukhari Preview: Haemonculus Covens   Wed Mar 28 2018, 17:59

Edit:speed reading and misread what was said


Last edited by Mikoneo on Wed Mar 28 2018, 18:00; edited 1 time in total
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shadowseercB
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PostSubject: Re: Codex: Drukhari Preview: Haemonculus Covens   Wed Mar 28 2018, 17:59

@Count Adhemar wrote:
Really wish they'd told us what the actual units were like. Grots, Talos and Cronos are pretty awful in the index and need some serious work to make them and, by extension, Covens viable.

Agreed.

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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: Codex: Drukhari Preview: Haemonculus Covens   Wed Mar 28 2018, 18:00

I don't know enough about Tau to comment on their rules, but necrons seems like they got the boost they needed at least. Granted they didn't get really fun stuff like it seems we are getting though, only 5 traits with maybe 1-2 being good for your chose playstyle. Glad that we are getting our own special unique subfaction system to keep things interesting.

Yeah scourges with blasters will be solid now, real glad I didn't go for dark lance scourges.

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Dark-Lord-101
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PostSubject: Re: Codex: Drukhari Preview: Haemonculus Covens   Wed Mar 28 2018, 18:05

I'm hoping they've reworked the haywire weapons, i have a unit of scourges with 3 Haywires, 1 blaster and 1 blast pistol, that CAN be a good loadout, depending on what they changed
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Xivai
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PostSubject: Re: Codex: Drukhari Preview: Haemonculus Covens   Wed Mar 28 2018, 18:06

Tau has like 1-2 viable septs and maybe 1-2 more as a splash sept only. Still not all that great honestly. No easy way to get past invulnerable saves unless its an expensive storm surge with its 4 d3 mortal wound missiles (that are one shot) and require 2 ml hits to fire at 4+

Most Tau player probably just going to spam ion weapons as usual with no real choice in the matter with an Ion Accelerator for tank popping.

Anyways I will detract no more from the DE talk. These rules are fantastic. At least one of my armies looks like its going to be fun to play.
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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: Codex: Drukhari Preview: Haemonculus Covens   Wed Mar 28 2018, 18:08

Not just one of your armies, the best of your armies will be fun to play. Very Happy

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Samrael
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PostSubject: Re: Codex: Drukhari Preview: Haemonculus Covens   Wed Mar 28 2018, 18:15

@Mppqlmd wrote:
Chronos, Talos, Grots, liquifier guns, Heat lance, HWB, they all need to change in order to get played.

Putting good rules on the garbage profiles is like putting wipped cream on poop.
'

This is also very true Crying or Very sad
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Bad-baden-baden
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PostSubject: Re: Codex: Drukhari Preview: Haemonculus Covens   Wed Mar 28 2018, 18:54

@Lord Asvaldir wrote:
That's my feeling as well, +4 invul with t5 wracks is decently tough for dark eldar, actually funny to think that's technically a basic troop unit that's slightly tougher than our vehicles. I do want to say I'll go for a prophets of flesh detachment with a heamoncolus, 10 wracks and a talos but we really need to see the changes to the coven units before deciding. I suspect at least something will change, but it would be a real bummer if the coven units stay as is, especially for the cronos which is garbage now.

I  doubt we'll have a -1ap wych cult since covens already got that trait, but seeing how nice our traits have been so far I'm sure wych cults will get something fun. I'm looking forward to a potential charge+advance trait which would be sweet for hellions/reavers.

It's actually a great roadblock. 4++/6+++ T5 is pretty dead 'ard. Now imagine if they get a points decrease on top of that - 9PPM isn't unreasonable. I'm thinking a big blob of 10 with a haemy and 2 pain engines make a great number of units to start on the table while the rest of your kabal deepstrikes with some screaming jets. They make a great anvil!
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Rodi Sikni
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PostSubject: Re: Codex: Drukhari Preview: Haemonculus Covens   Wed Mar 28 2018, 18:56

It's the 3th time in the advances that they talk about "hordes of wracks". I'm starting to think seriously about a considerable point drop for them.

Prophet of flesh is the absolutly no brain selection. Just with the trait, is better than the others, (well, truth is we haven't seen the other traits) but basicly picking it, the stratagem of the 3 warlords is free and you can gain 2CP aditional.

And, i don't wanna sound repetitive, but we haven't seen a unit profil. Again. I agree that all what they have show us looks great, but i'm worried about all wath they haven't show us yet.
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Weidekuh
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PostSubject: Re: Codex: Drukhari Preview: Haemonculus Covens   Wed Mar 28 2018, 19:08

Am I the only one that thinks the -ld bomb is nice against hordes, but it's true purpose is against elite units. Especially if you stack it really hard.
Kill one Custodes, get the rest for free! Only at your favourite Commoragh discounter!
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Red Corsair
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PostSubject: Re: Codex: Drukhari Preview: Haemonculus Covens   Wed Mar 28 2018, 19:14

BTW guys am I the only one that overlooked that in yesterdays preview screaming jets can only be used in your army if you don't use WWP? Something to consider. As written now, it's either or not both.

I also noticed a lot of folks missing that pray they don't take you alive only works in assault. This is a good one for aggressive characters but generally speaking, if you dug out their warlord from their backfield using assault, you already won lol.

I am really unimpressed by the LD debuff. It's fun as hell, but it's not great against most armies. Consider the fact that several have warlord traits creating an auto pass aura, then others have doctrines that mean you lose max 1 model. It's very dodgy. Plus every one has access to the 2 cp auto pass. Also people maths are off, I saw someone post a -4 plus 4 casualties on a LD8 marine unit as auto 6 loss... Ah, nope. It's auto 1-6 loss, and again several armies can ignore it. It's certainly not terrible though. Personally, I'd rather use my expensive coven units the way they were intended, crushing face in assault and soaking damage, the other two do this better. I'd say prophets edges out the -1 since your passively always using it as opposed to the -1 being conditional on getting into assault. They also have a strong WL trait, and regening wracks is more amazing then I think folks are granting. T5 4++ 6+++ is going to be a nightmare to remove entirely so it forces your opponent to either saturate the unit until it dies, or ignore it, either way is a bonus. I think stringing wracks out front to screen, then using the stratagem to walk them on besides the enemy will be useful. It's also a cheeky way to get line breaker or that objective they thought you forgot about.

REALLY looking forward to the cult leaks, they need some serious overhauling and I am very nervous. I just painted 25 Khymera and 12 fiends, I hope they don't suck lol.
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Red Corsair
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PostSubject: Re: Codex: Drukhari Preview: Haemonculus Covens   Wed Mar 28 2018, 19:18

@Weidekuh wrote:
Am I the only one that thinks the -ld bomb is nice against hordes, but it's true purpose is against elite units. Especially if you stack it really hard.
Kill one Custodes, get the rest for free! Only at your favourite Commoragh discounter!

Well, they are LD 9 or 10, so your looking at killing 1 model in usually 3 man units, as well as debuffing them a lot, then requiring them to roll high. It's not that I think it's horrible, but why not use 4++ invuln cheap wracks to tarpit them all day? I don't think peopel are really thinking about how crazy that 4++ really is. T5 basic troops with a 4++ 6+++ is arguable better then deathguard and we cost less currently, imagine after a point decrease.

Edit: crap sorry about the double post.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Codex: Drukhari Preview: Haemonculus Covens   Wed Mar 28 2018, 19:24

@Red Corsair wrote:
BTW guys am I the only one that overlooked that in yesterdays preview screaming jets can only be used in your army if you don't use WWP? Something to consider. As written now, it's either or not both.

Nah, someone else noticed:

@The Shredder wrote:

Screaming Jets - Not sure why this is a stratagem, but whatever. Is there a reason we're not allowed to use it with WWP?

Wink
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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: Codex: Drukhari Preview: Haemonculus Covens   Wed Mar 28 2018, 19:24

I'm a big fan of the possibility of t5 +4 invul save troops, it's the main thing I find enticing about using wracks. I just don't want to pick up a whole bunch of wracks before I've seen how their pts and special weapons may change. Hopefully a decrease for both but definitely looking pretty good as a tarpit unit so far.

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Crazy_Ivan
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PostSubject: Re: Codex: Drukhari Preview: Haemonculus Covens   Wed Mar 28 2018, 19:35

@Lord Asvaldir wrote:
I'm a big fan of the possibility of t5 +4 invul save troops,  it's the main thing I find enticing about using wracks. I just don't want to pick up a whole bunch of wracks before I've seen how their pts and special weapons may change. Hopefully a decrease for both but definitely looking pretty good as a tarpit unit so far.

Yup, with that stat line way better than wyches at present.
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PostSubject: Re: Codex: Drukhari Preview: Haemonculus Covens   Wed Mar 28 2018, 19:38

So... for fun's sake, lets assume the following:

Say wracks are allowed to go into blocks of 20. Heck, even 15 would be ok.

Now say you take a detachment of coven units that have the 4++, 15- 20 wracks, and also some cult and kabal choices, the kabal OF COURSE are using the screaming jets, because, well, duh...

So say you set up your wracks on foot during deployment, and drop in some screaming jet raiders.

then, why not spend 2 command points, remove your wracks, redeposit them 9" away from the enemy, and charge in 20 4++ 6+++ poison wielding wracks to tie up and distract the enemy?

First turn charge with wracks, and raiders/venoms all in their face.
Turn 1.

No wonder they said DE are fast!

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PostSubject: Re: Codex: Drukhari Preview: Haemonculus Covens   Wed Mar 28 2018, 19:39

@Crazy_Ivan wrote:
@Lord Asvaldir wrote:
I'm a big fan of the possibility of t5 +4 invul save troops,  it's the main thing I find enticing about using wracks. I just don't want to pick up a whole bunch of wracks before I've seen how their pts and special weapons may change. Hopefully a decrease for both but definitely looking pretty good as a tarpit unit so far.

Yup, with that stat line way better than wyches at present.

Wyches might get something better tho, cant say for sure till we see it.

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PostSubject: Re: Codex: Drukhari Preview: Haemonculus Covens   Wed Mar 28 2018, 19:44

It says a unit of talos and uses the plurale... Might they come in units of 3 again?
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PostSubject: Re: Codex: Drukhari Preview: Haemonculus Covens   Wed Mar 28 2018, 19:56

@Skulnbonz wrote:
So... for fun's sake, lets assume the following:

Say wracks are allowed to go into blocks of 20. Heck, even 15 would be ok.

Now say you take a detachment of coven units that have the 4++, 15- 20 wracks, and also some cult and kabal choices, the kabal OF COURSE are using the screaming jets, because, well, duh...

So say you set up your wracks on foot during deployment, and drop in some screaming jet raiders.

then, why not spend 2 command points, remove your wracks, redeposit them 9" away from the enemy, and charge in 20 4++ 6+++ poison wielding wracks to tie up and distract the enemy?

First turn charge with wracks, and raiders/venoms all in their face.
Turn 1.

No wonder they said DE are fast!

Wow, I hadn't noticed there is no requirement that the unit received damage before redeploying them. All the other like stratagem require the unit suffer casualties, That DOES make that stratagem MUCH more useful.

@Bibitybopitybacon wrote:
It says a unit of talos and uses the plurale... Might they come in units of 3 again?

Also a nice catch, I also hope they bump the Talos up to BS 3+. A talos used to have higher then average ws last edition, but this edition doesn't. I wouldn't mind WS2+ but I would prefer it if our BS finally became what it should always have been. It would allow a pure coven army a way to deal with tanks.
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PostSubject: Re: Codex: Drukhari Preview: Haemonculus Covens   Wed Mar 28 2018, 20:06

@Skulnbonz wrote:
So... for fun's sake, lets assume the following:

Say wracks are allowed to go into blocks of 20. Heck, even 15 would be ok.

Now say you take a detachment of coven units that have the 4++, 15- 20 wracks, and also some cult and kabal choices, the kabal OF COURSE are using the screaming jets, because, well, duh...

So say you set up your wracks on foot during deployment, and drop in some screaming jet raiders.

then, why not spend 2 command points, remove your wracks, redeposit them 9" away from the enemy, and charge in 20 4++ 6+++ poison wielding wracks to tie up and distract the enemy?

First turn charge with wracks, and raiders/venoms all in their face.
Turn 1.

No wonder they said DE are fast!
And when you got a Haemonculus in a speedy venom, they are t5 as soon, as he disembarks.
What also benefits the Venom, I think...

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PostSubject: Re: Codex: Drukhari Preview: Haemonculus Covens   Wed Mar 28 2018, 20:11

@Skulnbonz wrote:
So... for fun's sake, lets assume the following:

Say wracks are allowed to go into blocks of 20. Heck, even 15 would be ok.

Now say you take a detachment of coven units that have the 4++, 15- 20 wracks, and also some cult and kabal choices, the kabal OF COURSE are using the screaming jets, because, well, duh...

So say you set up your wracks on foot during deployment, and drop in some screaming jet raiders.

then, why not spend 2 command points, remove your wracks, redeposit them 9" away from the enemy, and charge in 20 4++ 6+++ poison wielding wracks to tie up and distract the enemy?

First turn charge with wracks, and raiders/venoms all in their face.
Turn 1.

No wonder they said DE are fast!

You're putting a lot of faith in making a 9" charge. If you're doing this on the first turn, then you won't even be able to reroll charges with PfP. So all you'll have to help you make those charges is a single reroll of a single dice. Neutral

You're basically spending 2 CPs to, in all likelihood, teleport near the enemy, fail to charge and then have to suffer through their turn in optimum range of their weapons.

You call that 'fast'. I call that 'suicidal'. Wink
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