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Weidekuh
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Tue Mar 27 2018, 16:01

@The Shredder wrote:


Screaming Jets - Not sure why this is a stratagem, but whatever. Is there a reason we're not allowed to use it with WWP?

Because it's basicly the same as the Craftworld stratagem. They have the same limitation. But other than that, no idea.
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Tue Mar 27 2018, 16:01

@The Shredder wrote:
Okay, here are my thoughts based on what we know so far:

Kabal of the Black Heart

Thirst for Power - Since Kabal units currently benefit the least from PfP, this seems really awful. I can only hope that PfP has improved greatly since the Index.

Screaming Jets - Not sure why this is a stratagem, but whatever. Is there a reason we're not allowed to use it with WWP?

Labyrinthine Cunning - Half as effective as the 'standard' one of its type, but works for you and your opponent. Seems okay.


Kabal of the Poisoned Tongue

The Serpent's Kiss - Unless poison has been improved, this is really weak. You're going from a 6/12 chance of wounding to a 7/12 chance (and most of the time it'll be even worse in melee). Also, it doesn't work with artefacts. For some reason.

Splinter Racks (not sure if these are unique to Poison Tongue Kabal, but this is where the designers put them) - This seems like a serious downgrade from rerolling all misses. Especially since a lot of abilities confer -1 to hit - which will negate it entirely. Once again, it doesn't work with artefacts. I'm sure it's because our artefacts are so amazing that allowing any other bonus to work with them would be like giving us God-mode.

Soul Seeker - Seems okay. Hardly seems powerful enough to warrant being excluded from every relevant bonus, but whatever.


Kabal of the Flayed Skull


Slay from the Skies - Gunboats Ahoy! Basically an interesting set of benefits for transports and embarked models (+3" move for stuff with fly, models with Fly or that are embarked on models with Fly ignore cover and reroll 1s with rapid-fire weapons). Only getting rerolls for rapid-fire weapons seems a bit niche (basically excludes Scourges, Raiders, Ravagers, our Fliers, Warriors/Trueborn with Blasters or Dark Lances etc.), but we'll see.

Masters of the Shadowed Sky - A single unit gets +1 to hit against a unit with Fly. Functional, if a bit niche.

The Blaster now does d6 wounds, which is really nice.


Kabal of the Obsidian Rose

Flawless Workmanship
- yet another ability that doesn't work with our artefacts. Does any other army have this on all their abilities? Anyway, +6" of range on most weapons seems okay.

Failure is Not an Option - Well this seems niche as hell. Also really doesn't sound like a Dark Eldar ability to me.

Armour of Misery - I'm guessing this is for people who want to turn their Archons into Incubi-Lords? If so, then unless Archons are allowed to by Glavies now, then we're still missing half the equation. Anyway, flavour aspect aside, it's hard to imagine this saving an Archon if he gets into trouble. Also, I'm going to go ahead and assume this means that Shadowfield is still rubbish.


So, some nice stuff, some interesting/okay stuff, and quite a bit of bad/weak-looking stuff. Of course, I don't know what else has changed, so we'll have to see.    

Thirst for Power - Using webway on something and then getting re-roll charges seems good. Also +1 hit starting round 2 now. That's legit.

Screaming Jets - This is just the same as CW version but named different. One version for infantry and one for vehicles.

Labyrinthine Cunning - To my knowledge, Tau and Admech also have this version. Seems ok. Not IG spectacular but decent.

The Serpent's Kiss - re-rolling a failed third of wounds seems legit to me.

Splinter Racks - A lot of -1 to hit abilities are outside of rapid fire anyway. So this will happen less often than you think.

Soul Seeker - Different role than the one from Chapter Approved. Waiting to see what the melee weapons, if any, are like.

Slay from the Skies - This one is interesting. Is it basically just Venoms that benefit from this and units inside them and raiders? At least until they get knocked out of them that is.

Masters of the Shadowed Sky - Agree, very situational.

Flawless Workmanship - Not sure how I feel about this one yet. Solid trait though.

Failure is Not an Option - I LOVE this trait. It's hilarious!

Armour of Misery - I fail my 2++ all the damn time....having a 3+ to use on small arms fire instead is very good for my archons hehe.



I am loving what I am seeing so far. Except the detachment thing, that remains to be seen how it will shake out for us.

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Rodi Sikni
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Tue Mar 27 2018, 16:02

All the info is pretty cool but, I'm the only worried about the omission of the archon in preview about kabals?
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Tue Mar 27 2018, 16:02

Quote :
Yeah it's not a bad little extra buff, but as of right now black heart is probably my least favorite kabal since the extra turn for pfp ability would probably be better on non kabal units like wyches

Especially since PfP is presumably still melee focused...so give a bonus to the sub-army with no dedicated melee units? Huh?

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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Tue Mar 27 2018, 16:03

This looks really cool. I feel hope.
I don't like it, now I'll spend all week waiting for the other shoe to drop.
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Tue Mar 27 2018, 16:04

@Rodi Sikni wrote:
All the info is pretty cool but, I'm the only worried about the omission of the archon in preview about kabals?

I was just thinking that, though I assume they'll reveal the HQs all together. I'm not too worried if they keep the quality of these new rules up.

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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Tue Mar 27 2018, 16:05

@Rodi Sikni wrote:
All the info is pretty cool but, I'm the only worried about the omission of the archon in preview about kabals?

I don't really see that as a major cause for concern, the focus of this preview seems to be more on the traits and what units directly benefit from the traits, and less on unit rules like with the necron previews. Way too early to make assumptions about what might have happened with our Archons.

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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Tue Mar 27 2018, 16:06

@zergavas wrote:
Well i would have liked the older version or a new version that would be more individual for each unit. As right now i dont care if my kabalites gets a 6+ fnp, gets to reroll move and charge, the fearless is not that relevant but its nice to have.

Well then you haven‘t lived in the days of the CC Kabalit troops. And that was before time time of PfP.

But having it for individual units just adds complexity that slows down the game and what Kabalits need are shooty upgrades, oh look, added range, reroll 1s and exploding 6s.

For tomorrow I am guessing the Cults get a Cult Specific Skyboard.

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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Tue Mar 27 2018, 16:06

Quote :
All the info is pretty cool but, I'm the only worried about the omission of the archon in preview about kabals?

They gave us what, four faction traits, two strategems, a warlord trait, and two artifacts? Did I miss anything?

That's more than some factions got in their entire preview week, and we got it all in one article. I think it's a little unreasonable to expect a unit profile on top of that

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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Tue Mar 27 2018, 16:07

Pretty stoked about the majority of this.

PFP looks like it is going to be a let-down from the perspective of the Kabals. I'm hoping that it greatly (and positively) impacts Coven and Cult; assuming we see some significant changes in base stats, etc...

Blasters look great. Pretty impressed with the range of abilities built into these Kabals...it is going to be a lot of fun to plug-and-play.

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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Tue Mar 27 2018, 16:08

I ran my kabalites into CC all the way to 7th but right now there is no reason for it and i would rather have a pfp chart that makes sense for different units.

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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Tue Mar 27 2018, 16:09

Yeah this was a big info drop, couldn't really expect much more.

Small unrelated thing I noticed, it seems strange to me how the main popular faction for many codexes seems to get the most meh trait. Black legion for CSM sucks, Sautkh dynasty for Necrons is meh, and now we have Black Heart for us which seems like the least useful of the kabal traits. I'm sure there's many codexes where this trend isn't the case but just seems unfortunate in the case of a few factions.

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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Tue Mar 27 2018, 16:10

@zergavas wrote:
I ran my kabalites into CC all the way to 7th but right now there is no reason for it and i would rather have a pfp chart that makes sense for different units.

I would too. But I'm not dismissing our current chart yet. It is only garbage if we have no units we feel confident getting into CC with. If that changes, so does my take on PFP.

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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Tue Mar 27 2018, 16:16

@The Shredder wrote:
Okay, here are my thoughts based on what we know so far:

Kabal of the Black Heart

Thirst for Power - Since Kabal units currently benefit the least from PfP, this seems really awful. I can only hope that PfP has improved greatly since the Index.

Screaming Jets - Not sure why this is a stratagem, but whatever. Is there a reason we're not allowed to use it with WWP?

Labyrinthine Cunning - Half as effective as the 'standard' one of its type, but works for you and your opponent. Seems good.


Kabal of the Poisoned Tongue

The Serpent's Kiss - Unless poison has been improved, this is really weak. You're going from a 6/12 chance of wounding to a 7/12 chance (and most of the time it'll be even worse in melee). Also, it doesn't work with artefacts. For some reason.

Splinter Racks (not sure if these are unique to Poison Tongue Kabal, but this is where the designers put them) - This seems like a serious downgrade from rerolling all misses. Especially since a lot of abilities confer -1 to hit - which will negate it entirely. Once again, it doesn't work with artefacts. I'm sure it's because our artefacts are so amazing that allowing any other bonus to work with them would be like giving us God-mode.

Soul Seeker - Seems okay. Hardly seems powerful enough to warrant being excluded from every relevant bonus, but whatever.


Kabal of the Flayed Skull


Slay from the Skies - Gunboats Ahoy! Basically an interesting set of benefits for transports and embarked models (+3" move for stuff with fly, models with Fly or that are embarked on models with Fly ignore cover and reroll 1s with rapid-fire weapons). Only getting rerolls for rapid-fire weapons seems a bit niche (basically excludes Scourges, Raiders, Ravagers, our Fliers, Warriors/Trueborn with Blasters or Dark Lances etc.), but we'll see.

Masters of the Shadowed Sky - A single unit gets +1 to hit against a unit with Fly. Functional, if a bit niche.

The Blaster now does d6 wounds, which is really nice.


Kabal of the Obsidian Rose

Flawless Workmanship
- yet another ability that doesn't work with our artefacts. Does any other army have this on all their abilities? Anyway, +6" of range on most weapons seems pretty good.

Failure is Not an Option - Well this seems niche as hell. Also really doesn't sound like a Dark Eldar ability to me.

Armour of Misery - I'm guessing this is for people who want to turn their Archons into Incubi-Lords? If so, then unless Archons are allowed to by Glavies now, then we're still missing half the equation. Anyway, flavour aspect aside, it's hard to imagine this saving an Archon if he gets into trouble. Also, I'm going to go ahead and assume this means that Shadowfield is still rubbish.


So, some nice stuff, some interesting/okay stuff, and some bit of bad/weak-looking stuff. Lots of flavour, which is always nice to see (though Failure is not an Option still doesn't sound at all like DE to me  Neutral ). Of course, I don't know what else has changed, so we'll have to see.

I actually really like the Failure is not an Option stratagem. If you're a crazy man, it could really be some great high-risk high-reward type stuff.
Say you say I lose 10 kaballites and I roll a 3. That would mean 5 kaballites go to flee. If I wanted to, I'd make my 2 DL and 2 blasters flee.
So, I get 2 free DL shots, and then 2 blasters to hopefully kill anything else, in addition to a random splinter schmuck.
If I kill something, I've effectively gotten 2 DL shots at an enemy vehicles, or hell, even 4 DL equivalent shots against a vehicle for free. If I kill it, then they all get to stick around to fire again the next turn. That seems pretty cool to me!
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Tue Mar 27 2018, 16:16

GG GW, WELL PLAYED! <3
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Tue Mar 27 2018, 16:18

@TheBaconPope wrote:
Quote :
All the info is pretty cool but, I'm the only worried about the omission of the archon in preview about kabals?

They gave us what, four faction traits, two strategems, a warlord trait, and two artifacts? Did I miss anything?

That's more than some factions got in their entire preview week, and we got it all in one article. I think it's a little unreasonable to expect a unit profile on top of that

That's your opinion.

Mine is that other armies didn't have been divided on three and forced to use lots of HQ on their lists. And like nothing seems to indicate that GW will show us more about kabals because they still have to show us cults, covens and the non aligned units, I don't think that is unreasonable expect info about the archons.

Did I miss anything?
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Tue Mar 27 2018, 16:23

Sure you can have the opinion that we deserved to see changes to our archons, but look back at all the preview articles for codexes over the past few months-plenty of gotten much less info than what we got today, so I'm very content with getting all the info on kabal traits and not much on unit changes.

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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Tue Mar 27 2018, 16:24

Quote :
That's your opinion.

Mine is that other armies didn't have been divided on three and forced to use lots of HQ on their lists. And like nothing seems to indicate that GW will show us more about kabals because they still have to show us cults, covens and the non aligned units, I don't think that is unreasonable expect info about the archons.

Did I miss anything?

I'm of the same opinion! I find the split pretty stupid and counterintuitive, honestly. But this article represents an unprecedented level of information release from GW, wanting a full unit profile on top of that is unreasonable.

Sure they could've put more info about the Archons, but instead you have to wait a week and a half, less if it's leaked? Sure it's annoying, but I don't think it's anything drastic

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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Tue Mar 27 2018, 16:24

They did reveal a lot, and everything they revealed has some sort of use :

- Black heart : let's not forget Incubi and Mandrakes can be Kabal. You could run an Archon + mandrakes in a Vanguard to get the sweet CP refund, and turn 1 charges with those Mandrakes, for example.

- Poison tongue : pretty great, works well with mandrakes/incubi AND kabalites. A bit less useful for gunboats than the flayed skulls, but the sniper artefact is super sweet.

- Flayed skull : the go-to for gunboats. Ignore cover, +3 mvt and reroll 1's for some weapons is A LOT.

- Obsidian rose : it's nice.

Add to that the blaster, the racks (that can combo pretty well with the Flayed skull stratagem if you're shooting at, say, a flyrant), and we can qualify this as great news.

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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Tue Mar 27 2018, 16:24

I think I'm reading Labyrinthine Cunning differently. I find ours to be AMAZING! Each time you or your opponent uses a command point (singlular) to use a strategem. I read this as if I spend 3pts for a strategem, I get 3D6 rolls to get more points. Has anyone else read it that way? It says spends a point vs stratagem. If this is correct, we now have the best version of this.
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Tue Mar 27 2018, 16:26

@Sarkesian wrote:
I think I'm reading Labyrinthine Cunning differently. I find ours to be AMAZING! Each time you or your opponent uses a command point (singlular) to use a strategem. I read this as if I spend 3pts for a strategem, I get 3D6 rolls to get more points. Has anyone else read it that way? It says spends a point vs stratagem. If this is correct, we now have the best version of this.

Most CP traits function that way, no? In the course of a game - assuming an average of 7CPs - you're looking at getting an extra 2. Could be game changing based on our stratagems, but as of now we just don't really know.
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Tue Mar 27 2018, 16:26

No one's mentioned this yet, but blast pistols are also d6 damage, if you read the next couple sentences after.
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Tue Mar 27 2018, 16:27

Lets see:
1. Raiding Force and structure
2. Kabal
3. Wych Cults
4. Covens
5. Mercenaries and HQs

That's how I think (roughly) our information will be revealed. Either way I fully expect to hear about the HQs later on. Heck, they may just omit the mercs since we learned a bit about Scourges today.

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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Tue Mar 27 2018, 16:27

@Sarkesian wrote:
I think I'm reading Labyrinthine Cunning differently. I find ours to be AMAZING! Each time you or your opponent uses a command point (singlular) to use a strategem. I read this as if I spend 3pts for a strategem, I get 3D6 rolls to get more points. Has anyone else read it that way? It says spends a point vs stratagem. If this is correct, we now have the best version of this.

We're on the same page.

So if your opponent and yourself both have 12 CP on the course of the game, you'd be getting in average 4 back.

It's a shame you can't have multiple Archons with Commander Traits, otherwise this trait could stack, and become truly awesome.


EDIT : ah, mercenaries don't benefit from obsessions. That's a bummer.

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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Tue Mar 27 2018, 16:28

@Bad-baden-baden wrote:
@Sarkesian wrote:
I think I'm reading Labyrinthine Cunning differently. I find ours to be AMAZING! Each time you or your opponent uses a command point (singlular) to use a strategem. I read this as if I spend 3pts for a strategem, I get 3D6 rolls to get more points. Has anyone else read it that way? It says spends a point vs stratagem. If this is correct, we now have the best version of this.

Most CP traits function that way, no? In the course of a game - assuming an average of 7CPs - you're looking at getting an extra 2. Could be game changing based on our stratagems, but as of now we just don't really know.

Not always. The Tau relic that does almost the same thing is one roll per stratagem used by you or your opponent, not per command point spent. Craftworld eldar Autarch's get a roll per command point YOU spend, but not your opponent. Both of these are still just one 6s.
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