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 Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals

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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Wed Mar 28 2018, 10:30

@Dr.Morbid wrote:
Did anyone notice that Screming jets do not prevent the embarked unit from disembarking closer than 9", unlike droppods and the like? That would mean you only need a 6 on your charge roll.
Can you disembark after deep striking??

@Pain Engine wrote:
I'm obviously hyped, but I'm personally I'm also a bit disappointed. Black Heart seems really dumb, and unless there's something we haven't seen yet, pretty poorly thought through. Screaming jets isn't very impressive (you can only use it once, right?), and since you can't use it with the webway strat our alpha strike/deep strike potential seems really limited and scales really poorly.
You can use it multiple times. So 4 raiders deepstriking turn one is possible and great! Oh...you wanted to shot with that Predator? Not on my watch!

@DARK_ARCHON_GAZ_NZ wrote:
This is all great but it's a painting / representation issue now lol
I have to re airbrush my army kabal wise to run clear factions
Right now I'm looking like poisioned tounge kabal
So need to figure out how to show different kabals while keeping a good look
Just about to put decals on
Glad I waited
How are you all  going to represent your kabals etc
Banners? Decals ? Paint jobs?

My Kabal incorporated two colours so that´s not an issue for me (Originally wanted to differentiate "normal" guys and the "inner circle/elite"). But I think I´ll stick with the flayed Skull kabal since my guys are airborne/web web based so that is the most fitting fluff nevertheless.
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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Wed Mar 28 2018, 10:35

@CptMetal wrote:
@Dr.Morbid wrote:
Did anyone notice that Screming jets do not prevent the embarked unit from disembarking closer than 9", unlike droppods and the like? That would mean you only need a 6 on your charge roll.
Can you disembark after deep striking??

I don't think you can actually, because Deep Striking happemns at the end of the movement phase. Which emans no more moving.
But then this becomes the "what is the end of hpase" argument.


@Pain Engine wrote:
I'm obviously hyped, but I'm personally I'm also a bit disappointed. Black Heart seems really dumb, and unless there's something we haven't seen yet, pretty poorly thought through. Screaming jets isn't very impressive (you can only use it once, right?), and since you can't use it with the webway strat our alpha strike/deep strike potential seems really limited and scales really poorly.
You can use it multiple times. So 4 raiders deepstriking turn one is possible and great! Oh...you wanted to shot with that Predator? Not on my watch!
[/quote]

Can you use it multiple times? I didn't read that part, and figured the "once per phase" rule still applied.
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|Meavar
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Wed Mar 28 2018, 10:38

@Dr.Morbid wrote:
Did anyone notice that Screming jets do not prevent the embarked unit from disembarking closer than 9", unlike droppods and the like? That would mean you only need a 6 on your charge roll.

You disembark before the vehicle moves, but the vehicle counts as having moved, so no disembarking on the turn you arrive. (we also arrive at the end of the movement phase, so no more moving after that?)
(jeah it was my first thought as well that we could)
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Kantalla
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Wed Mar 28 2018, 10:38

@Dr.Morbid wrote:
Did anyone notice that Screming jets do not prevent the embarked unit from disembarking closer than 9", unlike droppods and the like? That would mean you only need a 6 on your charge roll.
Except disembarking is before the vehicle moves, so I would assume the passengers have to stay embarked when you arrive with Screaming jets.

As for the Obsidian Rose or Black Heart Raider transporting Flayed Skull Kabalites - I suspect keywords will prevent that, but if they don't, the Kabalites are embarked on a transport that has FLY, so they ignore cover, and their Rapid Fire weapons will get to reroll 1s to hit.

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DingK
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Wed Mar 28 2018, 10:38

@Dr.Morbid wrote:
Did anyone notice that Screming jets do not prevent the embarked unit from disembarking closer than 9", unlike droppods and the like? That would mean you only need a 6 on your charge roll.

Since the vehicle comes down at the end of your Movement Phase, I'm assuming that means after all other movement, including disembarking, has been completed. In other words, the unit wouldn't be allowed to disembark period.

I will admit, however, that I have no idea how similar stratagems are worded.
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yellabelly
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Wed Mar 28 2018, 10:39

Deployment isn't a phase in a turn, it's pre-game. That's why things like Webway Portal specify that it is single use. If I'm wrong on that someone please correct me, but I'm fairly sure it's been clarified by GW somewhere. The trouble is remembering where when there seems to be so many FAQs, designers notes etc etc etc.

Edit/ and agree with others re disembarking, on two points. Firstly, deepstrikes are at the end of the move phase so no more movement after that. Secondly, disembarks happen before the transport moves. Once that transport deepstrikes, it has move and so the chance to disembark has already gone.

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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Wed Mar 28 2018, 10:40

I'm pretty sure you CAN'T disembark after arriving from tactical Reserves.

Disembarking requires a Move, but Reserves arrive at the END of the movement phase - which to me means after all other movement has been completed.
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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Wed Mar 28 2018, 10:41

@yellabelly wrote:
Deployment isn't a phase in a turn, it's pre-game. That's why things like Webway Portal specify that it is single use. If I'm wrong on that someone please correct me, but I'm fairly sure it's been clarified by GW somewhere. The trouble is remembering where when there seems to be so many FAQs, designers notes etc etc etc.


The Webway specifies that it can be used either once or twice.
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Dr.Morbid
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Wed Mar 28 2018, 10:41

[quote="CptMetal"]
@Dr.Morbid wrote:
Did anyone notice that Screming jets do not prevent the embarked unit from disembarking closer than 9", unlike droppods and the like? That would mean you only need a 6 on your charge roll.
Can you disembark after deep striking??

Damn it, I forgot that you can't. As it never was an option so far, I overlooked it.
It is still nice for 2 Units of Blasterborn (which is a thing again) in a Raider, kicking some tank-ass.

I really like the 24" Blaster now.

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eae
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Wed Mar 28 2018, 10:42

@Squidmaster wrote:
@CptMetal wrote:
@Dr.Morbid wrote:
Did anyone notice that Screming jets do not prevent the embarked unit from disembarking closer than 9", unlike droppods and the like? That would mean you only need a 6 on your charge roll.
Can you disembark after deep striking??

I don't think you can actually, because Deep Striking happemns at the end of the movement phase. Which emans no more moving.
But then this becomes the "what is the end of hpase" argument.
Disembarking only happens before the transport has moved, deep striking counts as moving AND happens at the end of the movement phase, so no, you cannot disembark after deep striking.

@Squidmaster wrote:
Can you use it multiple times? I didn't read that part, and figured the "once per phase" rule still applied.
Core book, p. 215 "Strategic Discipline" specifically states you can reuse Stratagems that are used 'before the battle begins'. Hence "only used once per battle" limitation in wordings of Stratagems such as Webway Strike. Screaming Jets does not have this limitation set (same as Craftworlds).
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Wed Mar 28 2018, 10:42

@eae wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
You Kabals and Raider are "Kabal of the Flawed Skulls" (they have to be to go into the raider, same keywords)
That is not true. Raider at the moment transports DRUKHARI INFANTRY models, no mention of a <KABAL> keyword. Some people draw an analogy to <CRAFTWORLD> transports yet I'd like to point out that Wave Serpents had their limitation clearly defined in the Index and Raider does not.

If this limitation was indeed added then we won't need a FAQ indeed but till that happens - well, I've already seen THREE interpretations of this obsession which means it's a clear candidate for a FAQ.

With the same Keywords

Edit: Read page 42 of the index, then read the datasheet for Raider, in the Keyword section it is marked as <kabal> <Wych> <Coven> those are the keywords.

Referring to pg 42, it stats that those keywords are suppose to have name tied to them

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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Wed Mar 28 2018, 10:45

Right, but the transport could still charge.

So basically deep strike via the screaming jets strat, open up on some unsuspecting victims and if it does not all go to plan charge with one or more raiders to avoid or at least reduce return fire.

As the raider is quite long we might even be able to stop an enemy from breaking away next turn.

In order to fall back successfully they have to move 1 inch away from enemy models. It would just depend on terrain, other units and such.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Wed Mar 28 2018, 10:46

So far there is 0 transports that doesnt follow the keyword system and given how the new DE is looking, thats not going to change.

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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Wed Mar 28 2018, 10:50

@amishprn86 wrote:
With the same Keywords

Edit: Read page 42 of the index, then read the datasheet for Raider, in the Keyword section it is marked as <kabal> <Wych> <Coven> those are the keywords.

Referring to pg 42, it stats that those keywords are suppose to have name tied to them
I... did and it says literally nothing about "same keywords" or their appliance to the transports, could you qoute the part that you think adds this limitation to a transport? All I see is a default explanation of how subfaction keywords work, which in itself does not introduce any limitation besides what's written in a specific unit's datasheet.

I also know for sure "tied" is not a game mechanic term in wk40k 8ed. The transport limitation that you insist on is always part of the transport description itself (see Wave Serpent's Transport section in either a Codex or an Index), and it was not part of Raider's description nor was it fixed in the Index' FAQ (while the Raider itself was updated to disallow Scourges).
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Wed Mar 28 2018, 10:51

@amishprn86 wrote:
So far there is 0 transports that doesnt follow the keyword system and given how the new DE is looking, thats not going to change.
Jeah but it will be a huge difference if they transport has a keyword but can transport any dark eldar infantry (like nearly all IG transports also have a doctrine keyword, but can transport any IG infantry) Or if they can only transport infantry with matching doctrine what someone above seemed to be hinted at.
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Wed Mar 28 2018, 11:00

I'm 100% sure we will not mix and match transports. But if you wana talk like you we will be able to, thats all fun, just dont get to hyped.

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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Wed Mar 28 2018, 11:09

@amishprn86 wrote:
I'm 100% sure we will not mix and match transports. But if you wana talk like you we will be able to, thats all fun, just dont get to hyped.
Thanks for the heads up! Are they going to change Poisoned weapons' mechanics in some good way?
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Wed Mar 28 2018, 11:17

@eae wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
I'm 100% sure we will not mix and match transports. But if you wana talk like you we will be able to, thats all fun, just dont get to hyped.
Thanks for the heads up! Are they going to change Poisoned weapons' mechanics in some good way?

Well i think they did (I know you are joking so i will now too), they are now +2 to the wound? I think.

Post edited - no flaming! Count Adhemar

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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Wed Mar 28 2018, 11:19

No, the +2 is a bonus to the roll for poinson just for the relic pistol
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Wed Mar 28 2018, 11:23

I do hope that at least the venom gets a point reduction, maybe they will mention it today with the which cult since the new starter box features both.
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Wed Mar 28 2018, 11:32

@Lord Asvaldir wrote:
@Imateria wrote:
@Lord Asvaldir wrote:
@Leninade wrote:
So if I want grotesques and reavers along side my warrior gunboats and ravagers I now need to take a set of wracks, wyches, haemonculus, and succubus?

Actually you don't have to take wyches or wracks because you could just take say a spearhead detachment of coven units or an outrider detachment of wych cults. The patrols raiding force system we got showed yesterday is just a way to mix and match our forces will giving us more cps, but it's not the only way to mix our forces while keeping our faction traits. No matter what detachment you choose though yes you will need a haemonculus/succubus to unlock the traits for cult/coven units, which doesn't seem like too big a cost to me.
Yet, Daemons asside (who have a far larger units selection than us and many people that seemingly would prefer to run mono god anyway), I cant think of another codex that penalises you for running mono faction and pairing up certain combinations of units.

We don't have the full rules in hand yet, there may be some sort of bonus we get for sticking to one of the subfactions. Plus more importantly I don't really see it as that big of a handicap, taking the extra character won't be an issue as long as our characters are improved a tad.
That bonus would be the Kabal/Cult/Coven trait. I don't know why you'd think there'd be anything else, that makes no sense at all. The whole point of the subfaction trait system is to give a bonus to running monofaction detachments.

And I would say having to take any models that I don't want is a handicap.
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Wed Mar 28 2018, 11:32

@Dark-Lord-101 wrote:
No, the +2 is a bonus to the roll for poinson just for the relic pistol

I know, i was being snarky.

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Dark Elf Dave
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Wed Mar 28 2018, 11:43

I wonder which Cults we get rules for?

Cult of Strife - Seems the most obvious

Cult of the Red Grief - Special rules for disembarking from transports maybe?

Cult of the Wrath Unbound - Special rules for beasts?
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Wed Mar 28 2018, 11:46

@Dark Elf Dave wrote:
I wonder which Cults we get rules for?

Cult of Strife - Seems the most obvious

Cult of the Red Grief - Special rules for disembarking from transports maybe?

Cult of the Wrath Unbound - Special rules for beasts?

I would think ones we have the decals for, (We still have them int he boxes right?)

Isnt that Strife, Seventh, and Blade Denied?

I need to double check on that, b.c im not sure.

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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Wed Mar 28 2018, 11:48

I could see some leadership or CP shenanigans for the Cult of the Cursed Blade.
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