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Skulnbonz
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Tue Mar 27 2018, 17:35

Is it me, or is the Flayed Skull the far and away best one on the list?
Think about it..
Not only do your vehicles get to move farther, not only do your dark lances, disintegrators and splinter cannons IGNORE cover, Not only do your venom's splinter cannons get to reroll all 1's But your troops inside also benefit.
Splinter cannons, splinter rifles reroll 1's, and everything else, blasters, eyebursts, thrown grenades, you name it ignore cover.

Then, to top it all off, I do NOT see where this hate for the "masters of the sky" strategem is coming from.
So across the table you see a unit of 9 shining spears in cover. Your tantalus, or your troops, or your ravager or whatever hits on 2'S! They get no cover, And if they are using a splinter cannon or rifle, they reroll 1's.
Yeah, that sucks for 1 command point.

Remember- targeting units that can fly does not mean just flyers.. it means waveserpents, skimmers, jumppack marines, monoliths, tau battlesuits (I think), jetbikes, etc etc.

I am looking forward to the cults and covens.

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Dark-Lord-101
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Tue Mar 27 2018, 17:36

Sure thing! Just wishlisting!
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Bad-baden-baden
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Tue Mar 27 2018, 17:37

@PartZebra wrote:
I've noticed that we've kinda glossed over the stratagem "Failure is Not an Option". What do we think of that?

I kinda like it, could be real nice with Wyches to increase their tarpitting tendencies. For big units of anything else, it sounds like a free passed morale test with extra shooting/attacking for only a single CP.

Scratch that, I'm being dumb again. Can't effect wyches.

To quote myself earlier:

I actually really like the Failure is not an Option stratagem. If you're a crazy man, it could really be some great high-risk high-reward type stuff.
Say you say I lose 10 kaballites and I roll a 3. That would mean 5 kaballites go to flee. If I wanted to, I'd make my 2 DL and 2 blasters flee.
So, I get 2 free DL shots, and then 2 blasters to hopefully kill anything else, in addition to a random splinter schmuck.
If I kill something, I've effectively gotten 2 DL shots at an enemy vehicles, or hell, even 4 DL equivalent shots against a vehicle for free. If I kill it, then they all get to stick around to fire again the next turn. That seems pretty cool to me!
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PartZebra
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Tue Mar 27 2018, 17:39

@Skulnbonz wrote:
Is it me, or is the Flayed Skull the far and away best one on the list?
Think about it..
Not only do your vehicles get to move farther, not only do your dark lances, disintegrators and splinter cannons IGNORE cover, Not only do your venom's splinter cannons get to reroll all 1's But your troops inside also benefit.
Splinter cannons, splinter rifles reroll 1's, and everything else, blasters, eyebursts, thrown grenades, you name it ignore cover.

Then, to top it all off, I do NOT see where this hate for the "masters of the sky" strategem is coming from.
So across the table you see a unit of 9 shining spears in cover. Your tantalus, or your troops, or your ravager or whatever hits on 2'S! They get no cover, And if they are using a splinter cannon or rifle, they reroll 1's.
Yeah, that sucks for 1 command point.

Remember- targeting units that can fly does not mean just flyers.. it means waveserpents, skimmers, jumppack marines, monoliths, tau battlesuits (I think), jetbikes, etc etc.

I am looking forward to the cults and covens.


I totally agree. Flayed Skull seem pretty stacked with all the benefits they give, and the stratagem is really good. It'll be even better if transports aren't made faction specific, because filling a Venom with Poisoned Tongue Warriors will be fun if that's the case.

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Bad-baden-baden
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Tue Mar 27 2018, 17:40

@Skulnbonz wrote:
Is it me, or is the Flayed Skull the far and away best one on the list?
Think about it..
Not only do your vehicles get to move farther, not only do your dark lances, disintegrators and splinter cannons IGNORE cover, Not only do your venom's splinter cannons get to reroll all 1's But your troops inside also benefit.
Splinter cannons, splinter rifles reroll 1's, and everything else, blasters, eyebursts, thrown grenades, you name it ignore cover.

Then, to top it all off, I do NOT see where this hate for the "masters of the sky" strategem is coming from.
So across the table you see a unit of 9 shining spears in cover. Your tantalus, or your troops, or your ravager or whatever hits on 2'S! They get no cover, And if they are using a splinter cannon or rifle, they reroll 1's.
Yeah, that sucks for 1 command point.

Remember- targeting units that can fly does not mean just flyers.. it means waveserpents, skimmers, jumppack marines, monoliths, tau battlesuits (I think), jetbikes, etc etc.

I am looking forward to the cults and covens.

We don't have just enough information to decide which is the best jsut yet - stratagems, relics, and warlord traits will definitely play a factor, as well as if the PFP chart remains the same in the later stages.

Personally the two that stuck out to me the most so far are indeed Flayed Skull and Obsidian Rose. The suicide squad potential of Obsidian Rose is in particular very appealing for me.

If I was going primarily Kabal, I'd do flayed skull. If I was going less heavy into kabal, I'd go Obsidian Rose and WWP a unit of 20 kaballites, potentially utilizing their stratagem.
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Imateria
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Tue Mar 27 2018, 17:43

@The Shredder wrote:
@FrankyMcShanky wrote:
I bet ESE is watching this thread from the shadows and cackling maliciously.  

I like to imagine that whenever someone on The Dark City makes an incorrect assumption/prediction about the new codex (usually me), he writes it down in a little, black book.

When the codex is released and he's finally allowed to talk about it, he'll unleash a 6-page rant where he corrects every single mistake anyone made.

With any luck, I'll be worth at least 3 pages by now. Very Happy  
Wait, ESE's a Squat?!
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zergavas
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Tue Mar 27 2018, 17:44

I suppose flayed skull would me my preferred so far, but im not super impressed with the kabals not yet.

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HERO
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Tue Mar 27 2018, 17:49

For the first time in a long time, I looked at our options and go: I can't decide.

I'm.. really happy!

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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Tue Mar 27 2018, 17:53

@Bad-baden-baden wrote:
@Skulnbonz wrote:
Is it me, or is the Flayed Skull the far and away best one on the list?
Think about it..
Not only do your vehicles get to move farther, not only do your dark lances, disintegrators and splinter cannons IGNORE cover, Not only do your venom's splinter cannons get to reroll all 1's But your troops inside also benefit.
Splinter cannons, splinter rifles reroll 1's, and everything else, blasters, eyebursts, thrown grenades, you name it ignore cover.

Then, to top it all off, I do NOT see where this hate for the "masters of the sky" strategem is coming from.
So across the table you see a unit of 9 shining spears in cover. Your tantalus, or your troops, or your ravager or whatever hits on 2'S! They get no cover, And if they are using a splinter cannon or rifle, they reroll 1's.
Yeah, that sucks for 1 command point.

Remember- targeting units that can fly does not mean just flyers.. it means waveserpents, skimmers, jumppack marines, monoliths, tau battlesuits (I think), jetbikes, etc etc.

I am looking forward to the cults and covens.

We don't have just enough information to decide which is the best jsut yet - stratagems, relics, and warlord traits will definitely play a factor, as well as if the PFP chart remains the same in the later stages.

Personally the two that stuck out to me the most so far are indeed Flayed Skull and Obsidian Rose. The suicide squad potential of Obsidian Rose is in particular very appealing for me.

If I was going primarily Kabal, I'd do flayed skull. If I was going less heavy into kabal, I'd go Obsidian Rose and WWP a unit of 20 kaballites, potentially utilizing their stratagem.

Yes, this. Flayed Skull looks like my favourite at the moment but the other stuff that Kabals get might change my mind. A Poisoned Tongue Archon boosting poison as an aura would be huge, for instance.
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Tue Mar 27 2018, 17:55

@Skulnbonz wrote:
Is it me, or is the Flayed Skull the far and away best one on the list?
Think about it..
Not only do your vehicles get to move farther, not only do your dark lances, disintegrators and splinter cannons IGNORE cover, Not only do your venom's splinter cannons get to reroll all 1's But your troops inside also benefit.
Splinter cannons, splinter rifles reroll 1's, and everything else, blasters, eyebursts, thrown grenades, you name it ignore cover.

Then, to top it all off, I do NOT see where this hate for the "masters of the sky" strategem is coming from.
So across the table you see a unit of 9 shining spears in cover. Your tantalus, or your troops, or your ravager or whatever hits on 2'S! They get no cover, And if they are using a splinter cannon or rifle, they reroll 1's.
Yeah, that sucks for 1 command point.

Remember- targeting units that can fly does not mean just flyers.. it means waveserpents, skimmers, jumppack marines, monoliths, tau battlesuits (I think), jetbikes, etc etc.

I am looking forward to the cults and covens.

Deepstrike a Raider with Kabs inside next to them.

Master of the sky on them.

Even without counting the 2 "Hit on 2+, wound on 2+" blasters, you have 16 shots hitting on rerollable 2+, where every 5 or 6 to hit counts as 2 hits. You end up with something like 21 hits ?
And it ignores cover, because why the hell not (good counter to some Tyrannid comps).

And we have no idea what the Archons can do. Maybe they can buff it even more.

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Tue Mar 27 2018, 17:57

@Skulnbonz wrote:
Is it me, or is the Flayed Skull the far and away best one on the list?
Think about it..
Not only do your vehicles get to move farther, not only do your dark lances, disintegrators and splinter cannons IGNORE cover, Not only do your venom's splinter cannons get to reroll all 1's But your troops inside also benefit.
Splinter cannons, splinter rifles reroll 1's, and everything else, blasters, eyebursts, thrown grenades, you name it ignore cover.

Do you find Ignore Cover that useful?

I would have loved it in 7th but now cover seems like far less of an issue.

That said, I guess it's nice to make sure MEQ can't have a 2+ save against your poison.

@Skulnbonz wrote:
Then, to top it all off, I do NOT see where this hate for the "masters of the sky" strategem is coming from.

If you're referring to me, I don't hate it - it just irritates me that it's outright worse than the IG version (which has the same CP cost but works against any unit - not just flyers).
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Tue Mar 27 2018, 18:00

Ignore Cover is nothing special, but coming with +3 mvt and reroll 1's to hit, it's a nice bonus (and lots of people use cover to gain that annoying 2+ save. Since we have no AP on our Kabs, it's neat).

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Bad-baden-baden
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Tue Mar 27 2018, 18:02

@Mppqlmd wrote:
Ignore Cover is nothing special, but coming with +3 mvt and reroll 1's to hit, it's a nice bonus (and lots of people use cover to gain that annoying 2+ save. Since we have no AP on our Kabs, it's neat).

Yeah, none of those things alone are worth getting excited about. All 3 make them one of the better options. Honestly the worst looking to me so far is Poisoned Tongue. The relic seems okay and the trait is decidedly meh. Unless they have some amazing stratagems/warlord traits, I think they're the biggest loser so far.
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Tue Mar 27 2018, 18:04



I still can't quite figure this out and how it affects our poison weapons?  Is there a new poison table?  It's worded a lot like the current poison rule is only now it says +2 instead of wounds on a 2+ or 4+.

On face value you can take it for meaning that the Soul-Seeker just wounds on a 2+, but why the need for the new distinction of +2 to rolls?

Maybe mortal wounds on a 6+ on poisoned weapons or something stupid?


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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Tue Mar 27 2018, 18:05

I'm really not excited about Black Heart. The Sniper relic alone would make me consider taking Poisoned Tongue. 2 sniper shots wounding on 2+, AP-1 (the only real problem) and D3 ? On a PISTOL weapon ? It's bloody awesome.

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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Tue Mar 27 2018, 18:06

Answer to Shanky : instead of writing individual rules for every poisoned weapons, they created the "Poisoned" rule (You Wound on 4+, 6+ on vehicles), and some weapons (the old poisoned 2+) now have that rule, and a wounding bonus.

I hope it's clearer.

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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Tue Mar 27 2018, 18:07

@Mppqlmd wrote:
I'm really not excited about Black Heart. The Sniper relic alone would make me consider taking Poisoned Tongue. 2 sniper shots wounding on 2+, AP-1 (the only real problem) and D3 ? On a PISTOL weapon ? It's bloody awesome.

Honestly I feel like the parasites kiss is... better? Ap-1 is the big downfall for me, but I guess against characters it doesn't really matter, since bloody everyone has a 3++/4++.

Perhaps if our other options are poor it would be better. Personally I like the Armor of Misery way more. Assuming the Archon gets a decent melee weapon, he could turn into a legitimate beatstick.

Edit: Black Heart COULD be amazing if our PFP chart has changed to incorporate shooting attacks. The relic/stratagem could also be a big potential boon.
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Tue Mar 27 2018, 18:09

@Mppqlmd wrote:
Answer to Shanky : instead of writing individual rules for every poisoned weapons, they created the "Poisoned" rule (You Wound on 4+, 6+ on vehicles), and some weapons (the old poisoned 2+) now have that rule, and a wounding bonus.

I hope it's clearer.

Eh, I guess that makes sense. Seems a bit redundant. Also, I thought 8th wanted to get rid of universal special rules. Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Tue Mar 27 2018, 18:17

@FrankyMcShanky wrote:


I still can't quite figure this out and how it affects our poison weapons?  Is there a new poison table?  It's worded a lot like the current poison rule is only now it says +2 instead of wounds on a 2+ or 4+.

On face value you can take it for meaning that the Soul-Seeker just wounds on a 2+, but why the need for the new distinction of +2 to rolls?

Maybe mortal wounds on a 6+ on poisoned weapons or something stupid?

I think the assumption right now is simply cleaning up wording and space. By having the whole "wounds on 4s, 6s for vehicles" listed once in the whole codex rather than on every single poisoned weapon. It will be interesting to see if there is anything extra to it, or if there are any chances that having certain weapons with a bonus to wound rolls makes a difference, like venom blades on a unit that gets a bonus when rolling to wounds of 6 (now theoretically on 4s for that one model?).
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Tue Mar 27 2018, 18:20

I highly doubt that they're stupid enough to let us stack different Kabals so we can farm bonuses.

As for all these bonuses, as a Kabal-only, DE player that's STACKED with vehicles:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-65KTAyKvpN8/VEBkqQ84cFI/AAAAAAAADBY/T9nPTpCzLgY/s1600/dearmy.jpg

I'm loving Flayed Skull. The ignore cover is great, the extra movement is great, and the re-roll ones on Rapid-fire is a bit limiting, but it's still a bonus so it's great.

The extra movement is good for repositioning, but more importantly, it is a threat modifier and helps extend the kill range of our weapons when we need it most.

This is also why I think the +6" to all weapons is great. Especially because I'm excited to see what happens to Heat Lances, considering how we can get 24" D6 dmg Blasters.

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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Tue Mar 27 2018, 18:32

Guys, guys. Why do you think we have to decide? Just take 6 patrols and use some of every kabal you like! The Ravagers are from Obsidian rose, the venom and raider warriors from flayed skull or poised tongue.
One patrol for the Haemonculus and his hopefully awesome grotesques and one for the cult and whatever they get.
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Tue Mar 27 2018, 18:36

With the flayed skull i'm thinking about putting some of the pthers Raider's weapons (the destroyer cannon i think they are called in english), against high save units hiding in cover is just gold, and just try to point them at custodes Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Tue Mar 27 2018, 18:37

@CptMetal wrote:
Guys, guys. Why do you think we have to decide? Just take 6 patrols and use some of every kabal you like! The Ravagers are from Obsidian rose, the venom and raider warriors from flayed skull or poised tongue.
One patrol for the Haemonculus and his hopefully awesome grotesques and one for the cult and whatever they get.

6 Archons ? I'd rather not ^^

But taking Black Heart just to add some 6+++ to your Airwing Detachment... that's something I'd do.

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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Tue Mar 27 2018, 18:37

Speculating that Incubi, Mandrakes, and Scourges take on the Obsession of the detachment they are in, Black Heart doesn't seem too bad, as Incubi want to get into Melee. This will let them be better earlier. Paired with the screaming jets stratagem, put them in a venom, fly them in later when you have an opportune moment to attack something specific, you'd be that much more powerful and have a better chance of getting into melee safely, without spending your webway stratagem.
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PostSubject: Re: Codex Drukhari Preview: The Kabals   Tue Mar 27 2018, 18:38

They don't get the bonuses from Obsessions, gw made it clear in today's article Wink
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