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 Codex: Drukhai Preview – Assembling Your Raiding Party

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Codex: Drukhai Preview – Assembling Your Raiding Party   Codex: Drukhai Preview – Assembling Your Raiding Party - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon 26 Mar - 16:52

@Mppqlmd wrote:
It's not impossible that the HQ buffs we've all been hoping for would be included as Warlord traits, which would make that stratagem extra useful.

Do you think Warlord Trait: Wings would be too much to hope for? Razz
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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: Codex: Drukhai Preview – Assembling Your Raiding Party   Codex: Drukhai Preview – Assembling Your Raiding Party - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon 26 Mar - 16:53

Yeah I'm fine with that, the main reason I'm happy with the raiding force is it lets you take separate kabal/cult/coven detachments in the same army while keeping whatever special benefits each subfaction gets. Sure it might not be the optimized choice for pts spent to cps but I don't want to play hyper maximized lists anyway, I'll be happy sticking with a more balanced list that also seems like it will let me make a fairly characterful army.

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PartZebra
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PostSubject: Re: Codex: Drukhai Preview – Assembling Your Raiding Party   Codex: Drukhai Preview – Assembling Your Raiding Party - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon 26 Mar - 16:58

@The Shredder wrote:
I don't see how, given that he lacks their gun (which is why you'd take a Destroyer in the first place). In terms of HQs, outside of his speed he almost seems like a worst-of-both-worlds. He lacks the WS/BS and MWBD ability of an Overlord, but then he also lacks the Necron Lord's reroll wounds aura.

I think he'd have been fine if he'd just been given the Necron Lord's aura.

Oh really? Well in that case, I stand corrected! Thanks for the info Very Happy

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Ubernoob1
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PostSubject: Re: Codex: Drukhai Preview – Assembling Your Raiding Party   Codex: Drukhai Preview – Assembling Your Raiding Party - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon 26 Mar - 17:02

@The Shredder wrote:
@Mppqlmd wrote:
It's not impossible that the HQ buffs we've all been hoping for would be included as Warlord traits, which would make that stratagem extra useful.

Do you think Warlord Trait: Wings would be too much to hope for? Razz

As a warlord trait? Maybe. As a relic? Perhaps not. Craftworlders do have a relic that gives a character fly and a better movement speed.

So who knows? I personally believe, and it seems we've got a big bunch of people with similiar feelings, that from one article we can see GW is TRYING. Will it be perfect? Doubt it, but only because nothing can be perfect because we all want different things. But it also goes along with what evil space elves said about GW wanting to do right by the dark eldar players, they want this to be good. Smile I had hoped he was right before and this to me personally confirms they are trying their best.
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Rodi Sikni
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PostSubject: Re: Codex: Drukhai Preview – Assembling Your Raiding Party   Codex: Drukhai Preview – Assembling Your Raiding Party - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon 26 Mar - 17:17

@Ubernoob1 wrote:
@The Shredder wrote:
@Mppqlmd wrote:
It's not impossible that the HQ buffs we've all been hoping for would be included as Warlord traits, which would make that stratagem extra useful.

Do you think Warlord Trait: Wings would be too much to hope for? Razz

As a warlord trait? Maybe. As a relic? Perhaps not. Craftworlders do have a relic that gives a character fly and a better movement speed.

So who knows? I personally believe, and it seems we've got a big bunch of people with similiar feelings, that from one article we can see GW is TRYING. Will it be perfect? Doubt it, but only because nothing can be perfect because we all want different things. But it also goes along with what evil space elves said about GW wanting to do right by the dark eldar players, they want this to be good. Smile I had hoped he was right before and this to me personally confirms they are trying their best.

Do not misunderstand me, I praise the changes are having on GW, but I'll pay for a product and hope it is quality, not just try.

The day I can go to buy a GW product and say "here is 50% of the price, but do not worry, I'm trying" I'll accept that excuse. Meanwhile, I demand from GW the same as from any other company. If the codex is good, I will congratulate them, and if it is bad I will criticize them, but I will not say things like "they are trying".


Last edited by Rodi Sikni on Mon 26 Mar - 17:18; edited 1 time in total
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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: Codex: Drukhai Preview – Assembling Your Raiding Party   Codex: Drukhai Preview – Assembling Your Raiding Party - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon 26 Mar - 17:18

I had completely forgotten about the wings relic in the eldar book. Considering it can go on any character which leads to tons of rules without models sort of (farseer or warlock with wings). So maybe we will get access to a bike or wings relic.

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yellabelly
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PostSubject: Re: Codex: Drukhai Preview – Assembling Your Raiding Party   Codex: Drukhai Preview – Assembling Your Raiding Party - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon 26 Mar - 17:19

BaconPope I'm really not following your math on the detachments. I'm on my mobile and don't have books to hand to look at points, but I don't see how doubling the HQs and tripling the troops to make battalions is done for around 300 points, when the patrols (less than half the number of models) cost more than that to begin with.

On the note of patrols, I can see it being quite simple to FAQ the Raiding Party rule, to turn that into an actual detachment of its own made up of either 3 or 6 patrols. Thus resolving the repeat detachments and maximum detachments issues.

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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: Codex: Drukhai Preview – Assembling Your Raiding Party   Codex: Drukhai Preview – Assembling Your Raiding Party - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon 26 Mar - 17:21

Bike I don't see happening because that would require a model of one of our characters on a bike, and GW seems to be moving away from having options that cannot be represented model wise from their kits. Wings/teleport relic seems far more likely on the off chance that we get a method for making our characters move faster. Honestly though I'd just be content with making the venom have transport capacity 6, seems more likely than the raider going up in capacity especially given other venom chassis transports like the star weaver are capacity 6. Is it going to happen? No idea, but it certainly would be nice.

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Ubernoob1
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PostSubject: Re: Codex: Drukhai Preview – Assembling Your Raiding Party   Codex: Drukhai Preview – Assembling Your Raiding Party - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon 26 Mar - 17:21

@Rodi Sikni wrote:
@Ubernoob1 wrote:
@The Shredder wrote:
@Mppqlmd wrote:
It's not impossible that the HQ buffs we've all been hoping for would be included as Warlord traits, which would make that stratagem extra useful.

Do you think Warlord Trait: Wings would be too much to hope for? Razz

As a warlord trait? Maybe. As a relic? Perhaps not. Craftworlders do have a relic that gives a character fly and a better movement speed.

So who knows? I personally believe, and it seems we've got a big bunch of people with similiar feelings, that from one article we can see GW is TRYING. Will it be perfect? Doubt it, but only because nothing can be perfect because we all want different things. But it also goes along with what evil space elves said about GW wanting to do right by the dark eldar players, they want this to be good. Smile I had hoped he was right before and this to me personally confirms they are trying their best.

Do not misunderstand me, I praise the changes are having on GW, but I'll pay for a product and hope it is quality, not just try.

The day I can go to buy a GW product and say "here is 50% of the price, but do not worry, I'm trying" I'll accept that excuse. Meanwhile, I demand from GW the same as from any other company. If the codex is good, I will congratulate them, and if it is bad I will criticize them, but I will not say things like "they are trying".

And if the finished product is not felt to be a finished product, I won't disagree with that sentiment. It isn't as though I've not felt concern over how this codex will be. I just mean to say that this one article so far points out to me more good things than bad.
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Ubernoob1
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PostSubject: Re: Codex: Drukhai Preview – Assembling Your Raiding Party   Codex: Drukhai Preview – Assembling Your Raiding Party - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon 26 Mar - 17:27

@yellabelly wrote:
On the note of patrols, I can see it being quite simple to FAQ  the Raiding Party rule, to turn that into an actual detachment of its own made up of either 3 or 6 patrols. Thus resolving the repeat detachments and maximum detachments issues.

Or if they wanted to keep a little bit of restriction, I personally wouldn't mind the idea of something along the lines of "When building a list that contains one or more Drukhari patrol detachments, you may choose to ignore the matched play suggestion/restriction regarding maximum detachments. If you choose this option, you may only use Drukhari patrol detachments in the list."

Idea in my head being mainly in so far as Ynnari/craftworld things. It doesn't completely restrict the use of them with dark eldar, as you could still field a couple battalions, but it makes it impossible to just take 6 patrols of 6 Archons and 6 5 man kabalites for 8 CP points just to fuel another army.
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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: Codex: Drukhai Preview – Assembling Your Raiding Party   Codex: Drukhai Preview – Assembling Your Raiding Party - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon 26 Mar - 17:33

Honestly the whole multiple patrol detachments thing doesn't bother me a whole lot. I understand for tournament players it's a fairly important issue but for standard casual play it won't be a problem at all for me even if I wanted to use 6 patrol detachments, though I think it's far more likely my new standard list will end up being 3 patrols anyway.

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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: Codex: Drukhai Preview – Assembling Your Raiding Party   Codex: Drukhai Preview – Assembling Your Raiding Party - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon 26 Mar - 17:37

@Lord Asvaldir wrote:
Honestly the whole multiple patrol detachments thing doesn't bother me a whole lot. I understand for tournament players it's a fairly important issue but for standard casual play it won't be a problem at all for me even if I wanted to use 6 patrol detachments, though I think it's far more likely my new standard list will end up being 3 patrols anyway.

I don't think it's really going to be a concern for tournament players, my guess is that there'll be exceptions made for Drukhari in some way. It's only looking like an issue now because we've not had a faction that interacts with detachments like this before.
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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: Codex: Drukhai Preview – Assembling Your Raiding Party   Codex: Drukhai Preview – Assembling Your Raiding Party - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon 26 Mar - 17:40

@Lord Asvaldir wrote:
Bike I don't see happening because that would require a model of one of our characters on a bike, and GW seems to be moving away from having options that cannot be represented model wise from their kits. Wings/teleport relic seems far more likely on the off chance that we get a method for making our characters move faster. Honestly though I'd just be content with making the venom have transport capacity 6, seems more likely than the raider going up in capacity especially given other venom chassis transports like the star weaver are capacity 6. Is it going to happen? No idea, but it certainly would be nice.  

My only hope is on the Grand Master on Dreadknight armour from GK. No model, but new entry of the Codex.
I hope to see something like this.
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Vindicavi
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PostSubject: Re: Codex: Drukhai Preview – Assembling Your Raiding Party   Codex: Drukhai Preview – Assembling Your Raiding Party - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon 26 Mar - 17:45

I'm leaning more towards the side of suspicion with this announcement, many of you seem to forget that this is a company's PR department. If it printed anything but good news the fans will love someone will be getting an angry note from management.

The fact that it requires an Archon warlord again leaves me concerned. Mostly this is fluff justified imo, but given the exceptionally lackluster archon options these days if they haven't made many changes to them, even if they buffed other characters, it will still feel very much like a useless warlord (an archon tax if you will) who you have to hide in a vehicle and provides very little to your army in terms of buff or raw combat/ranged power.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Codex: Drukhai Preview – Assembling Your Raiding Party   Codex: Drukhai Preview – Assembling Your Raiding Party - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon 26 Mar - 17:47

I like it. A lot. I hate being forced to take mandatory elite or fast attack etc choices. I'd rather take multiple patrol detachments. That's quite fine by me. Misty mostly kabal I guess but perhaps I need to buy some wrecks and a Succubus now.
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Ubernoob1
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PostSubject: Re: Codex: Drukhai Preview – Assembling Your Raiding Party   Codex: Drukhai Preview – Assembling Your Raiding Party - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon 26 Mar - 17:55

@Vindicavi wrote:
I'm leaning more towards the side of suspicion with this announcement, many of you seem to forget that this is a company's PR department. If it printed anything but good news the fans will love someone will be getting an angry note from management.

The fact that it requires an Archon warlord again leaves me concerned. Mostly this is fluff justified imo, but given the exceptionally lackluster archon options these days if they haven't made many changes to them, even if they buffed other characters, it will still feel very much like a useless warlord (an archon tax if you will) who you have to hide in a vehicle and provides very little to your army in terms of buff or raw combat/ranged power.

And you are absolutely correct to wonder and ask these questions in my opinion. I don't believe thoughts and concerns like that should be invalid. Right now the Archon really isn't all that spectacular. Maybe they'll get better, and maybe they won't.

I just hope we can hold out long enough, at least this next week, if not for when the codex drops in full. Again I personally don't feel like anyone's opinions should be invalidated, but I do agree that when some people start to get extreme and outright say "the codex WON'T be good because GW hates us" rather than asking "but did they think about this? I don't know about that just yet..." is when we start hitting problematic.

And of course if that's how you feel about it, no one can or should stop you either. But I have seen a number of times where discussions (not just on this forum mind you) escalate beyond even heated arguments to outright declarations that dark eldar and/or 40k will never be fixed and we're all doomed to spend way too much money and time on a worthless game, so why are we even trying. Sad

And trust me, I've felt that way plenty of times. But it really doesn't do anyone any good, does it?
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Voidhawk
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PostSubject: Re: Codex: Drukhai Preview – Assembling Your Raiding Party   Codex: Drukhai Preview – Assembling Your Raiding Party - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon 26 Mar - 18:04

1 Patrol = 1 HQ, 1 Troop
1 Battalion = 2 HQ, 3 Troop = +3cp
3 Patrols = 3 HQ, 3 Troop = +4cp

Not that bad at all. Bringing an extra 73pt Archon for +1cp is probably fine.

6 Patrols = 6 HQ, 6 Troops = +8cp
3 Battalions = 6 HQ, 9 Troops = +9cp
1 Brigade = 3 HQ, 6 Troops, 3 Elite, 3 Fast, 3 Heavy = +9cp

Is dropping 3 troops units worth losing a CP? Since (at minimum) that's only 100pts of dudes, it's definitely open to interpretation.

At any rate, it certainly does the intended job: allow you to have detachments with different Kabal/Cult/Coven keywords while still having roughly as many CP as the other armies.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Codex: Drukhai Preview – Assembling Your Raiding Party   Codex: Drukhai Preview – Assembling Your Raiding Party - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon 26 Mar - 18:11

@Ubernoob1 wrote:

As a warlord trait? Maybe. As a relic? Perhaps not. Craftworlders do have a relic that gives a character fly and a better movement speed.

They do. But they also have access to regular wings and jetbikes.

@Ubernoob1 wrote:
So who knows? I personally believe, and it seems we've got a big bunch of people with similiar feelings, that from one article we can see GW is TRYING. Will it be perfect? Doubt it, but only because nothing can be perfect because we all want different things. But it also goes along with what evil space elves said about GW wanting to do right by the dark eldar players, they want this to be good. Smile I had hoped he was right before and this to me personally confirms they are trying their best.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Dark Eldar have been around since 3rd? Hence, GW have now had 5 whole editions to try. If they still can't get it right by the 6th, then I think it's fair to say that they're clearly not trying very hard.

Also:
Spoiler:
 

@Rodi Sikni wrote:
The day I can go to buy a GW product and say "here is 50% of the price, but do not worry, I'm trying" I'll accept that excuse.

lol!
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Rodi Sikni
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PostSubject: Re: Codex: Drukhai Preview – Assembling Your Raiding Party   Codex: Drukhai Preview – Assembling Your Raiding Party - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon 26 Mar - 18:22

Changing the topic a little. Someone recognise the scenery?  These columns looks simple but cool.
Codex: Drukhai Preview – Assembling Your Raiding Party - Page 3 40kDrukhariPreview-Mar26-Image1e
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BigDaddyYumYums
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PostSubject: Re: Codex: Drukhai Preview – Assembling Your Raiding Party   Codex: Drukhai Preview – Assembling Your Raiding Party - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon 26 Mar - 18:24

With regards to the detachment limits in matched play, I could see them making a rule that in pure Drukhari armies, the Raiding Force counts as 1 detachment.

Its just the first of the sneak peeks so going crazy with speculation doesn't help anything.
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DARK_ARCHON_GAZ_NZ
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PostSubject: Re: Codex: Drukhai Preview – Assembling Your Raiding Party   Codex: Drukhai Preview – Assembling Your Raiding Party - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon 26 Mar - 18:29

Just a thought
GW stated wyches reavers venoms and succubus were improved
They said these improved units as part of the box sale spurlge
So expecting them to all be cheaper in points and a modified stat / strategy
Should be great. Stay positive
It's all looking good
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eae
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PostSubject: Re: Codex: Drukhai Preview – Assembling Your Raiding Party   Codex: Drukhai Preview – Assembling Your Raiding Party - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon 26 Mar - 18:35

@BigDaddyYumYums wrote:
With regards to the detachment limits in matched play, I could see them making a rule that in pure Drukhari armies, the Raiding Force counts as 1 detachment.
My only hope is for a 2-week-FAQ release, since GW FB account currently suggests to try to talk with the tournament orgs to make an exception for Drukhari players.
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Mikoneo
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PostSubject: Re: Codex: Drukhai Preview – Assembling Your Raiding Party   Codex: Drukhai Preview – Assembling Your Raiding Party - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon 26 Mar - 18:51

Looks pretty good so far. Just wish that the 3 warlord strategem didn't require that the main warlord id an archon, would've been cooler to allow any of the 3 so that people could have their favourite faction leading the raid.
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xzandrate
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PostSubject: Re: Codex: Drukhai Preview – Assembling Your Raiding Party   Codex: Drukhai Preview – Assembling Your Raiding Party - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon 26 Mar - 18:57

@BigDaddyYumYums wrote:
With regards to the detachment limits in matched play, I could see them making a rule that in pure Drukhari armies, the Raiding Force counts as 1 detachment.

Its just the first of the sneak peeks so going crazy with speculation doesn't help anything.

The other key will be you can only include 1 Raiding Force, and probably for pure Drukhari forces only.

12 is doable in 2000 pts, plus some points left for other heavy lifters. Depending on strategems, how powerful is 19 CP? All without considering there may be a way to get CP back from strategem use.

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eae
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PostSubject: Re: Codex: Drukhai Preview – Assembling Your Raiding Party   Codex: Drukhai Preview – Assembling Your Raiding Party - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon 26 Mar - 18:59

[quote="xzandrate"]
@BigDaddyYumYums wrote:
12 is doable in 2000 pts, plus some points left for other heavy lifters.  Depending on strategems, how powerful is 19 CP?
12 patrols won't give you 19CP, Raiding Force is not a detachment, it's a rule that states 6+ Patrols = +8CP.
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