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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: Preorders for our Codex and new Start Collecting box next week!   Sun Mar 25 2018, 19:43

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Well, you're crying before even seeing the rules. Let's see first how they divide us (if at all) and then be salty about it.

This is GW they can barely understand basic statistics. Making us 3 factions is... Well you know my stance on that. The Dark Eldar codex release is gonna be fun. The kind fun you have watching Maury or Springer.

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PostSubject: Re: Preorders for our Codex and new Start Collecting box next week!   Sun Mar 25 2018, 19:49

People from this forum have helped develop and play test the codex. Pretty sure they would of pointed out what doesn't work and what does.
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Bad-baden-baden
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PostSubject: Re: Preorders for our Codex and new Start Collecting box next week!   Sun Mar 25 2018, 19:52

Perhaps there is a special rule to make patrol detachment award CP's? That could be a good way to make the separate armies shtick a lot more viable.
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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: Preorders for our Codex and new Start Collecting box next week!   Sun Mar 25 2018, 20:10

Don't really need that, because of how detachments work in 8th it's pretty easy to just take an outrider or vanguard detachment and just get the kabal/cult/coven untis you want from there. Because of that I'm actually not too worried about how the 3 factions thing ends up working out because it will be easy enough to take say a kabal battalion and a cult outrider detachment. I just hope our hqs get better so I don't feel like spending pts on two archaons is a waste, and I'm fairly confident archaons in particular will change because several characters have seen their auras change from index to codex.

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RedRegicide
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PostSubject: Re: Preorders for our Codex and new Start Collecting box next week!   Sun Mar 25 2018, 20:11

I’m excited to have rules for each and still be able to run my brigade

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Preorders for our Codex and new Start Collecting box next week!   Sun Mar 25 2018, 20:12

My body is ready!

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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: Preorders for our Codex and new Start Collecting box next week!   Sun Mar 25 2018, 20:13

@Crazy_Ivan wrote:
People from this forum have helped develop and play test the codex. Pretty sure they would of pointed out what doesn't work and what does.

Heh heh heh. Yes they did, and unlike Reece and the others who play tested, they can't slither behind their NDAs once it's out. Of course if it's good and they did a quality job then of course there will be cause for much rejoicing as our army will finally be good. Well, good again, the birds put us pretty high in the brackets for a short time. And I genuinely hope it is, like really, I wanna be able to use my army in a competitive game and not feel like I'm wasting the time of everyone involved.

If it's not good however, this is their home forum.

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Marrath
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PostSubject: Re: Preorders for our Codex and new Start Collecting box next week!   Sun Mar 25 2018, 20:28

Oh Yeah!
Only 2 weeks left, then we will see where we stand.

"– a disparate raiding party drawn from several sources with multiple leaders vying for influence."

Just musing. Could this mean variety of units from different sub-factions could be rewarded?

Edit: A bit miffed that the "No new HQ models"-rumour seems to prove true, hope the rules for existing HQs will make up for still no Malys, Sliscus, Vect, Sathonyx or Kheradruakh.

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PostSubject: Re: Preorders for our Codex and new Start Collecting box next week!   Sun Mar 25 2018, 20:29

@TeenageAngst wrote:
@Crazy_Ivan wrote:
People from this forum have helped develop and play test the codex. Pretty sure they would of pointed out what doesn't work and what does.

Heh heh heh. Yes they did, and unlike Reece and the others who play tested, they can't slither behind their NDAs once it's out. Of course if it's good and they did a quality job then of course there will be cause for much rejoicing as our army will finally be good. Well, good again, the birds put us pretty high in the brackets for a short time. And I genuinely hope it is, like really, I wanna be able to use my army in a competitive game and not feel like I'm wasting the time of everyone involved.

If it's not good however, this is their home forum.

It doesnt matter if we suggest 1 or 100 things, its not like we can force GW to make changes, its up to them, we have no idea if they took our information to heart, or just as a general survey of interest.

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Dizzie
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PostSubject: Re: Preorders for our Codex and new Start Collecting box next week!   Sun Mar 25 2018, 20:30

I have been looking forward to this for ages, i was almost ready to start a thousand sons army, then we had 2 months of will it or won't it.
I'm hoping we do have the options for successfully running any type of army from 3 sub factions and of course fix the balance as a whole, though i guess at this stage, everyone is.
Should be fun for two weeks, i'm excited bounce
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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: Preorders for our Codex and new Start Collecting box next week!   Sun Mar 25 2018, 20:32

Quote :
It doesnt matter if we suggest 1 or 100 things, its not like we can force GW to make changes, its up to them, we have no idea if they took our information to heart, or just as a general survey of interest.

Play testers are vaunted by the company as shoring up their new rules sets. GW says they take their input to heart. If the product is bad, it follows the input was bad.

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Gorefather
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PostSubject: Re: Preorders for our Codex and new Start Collecting box next week!   Sun Mar 25 2018, 20:35

YES.

Some thoughts: I'm not a huge fan of the new SC box. 11 models in a 5 model transport (fingers crossed they buff it to 6) is frustrating, and I don't know anyone that still needs Reavers especially since Gangs of Commorragh has been out for so long. I run mono Kabal atm so it doesn't appeal much to me, but I'll probably still end up buying it since I have no self control.

I'm apprehensive about their description of "vying for influence", this could go several ways. The worst would be that mixing sub factions invalidates your sub faction traits, possibly including Scourges, Mandrakes, and Incubi who have no sub faction. Maybe it's that you have to take an HQ to "unlock" sub faction traits, so taking a single Hellion unit just means they won't get a bonus without a Succubus. Perhaps it has something to do with command points and stratagems.

Either way I'm not huge on "vying for influence" since the Archon has THE final authority during a raid. They've already muddled up the lore by renaming the faction, having them undermine the hierarchy of the Eternal City in addition would be extremely frustrating.
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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: Preorders for our Codex and new Start Collecting box next week!   Sun Mar 25 2018, 20:40

I wouldn't read too much into what they've said so far, the article today didn't have any real hints of rules, just the concept of all three factions being someone separate. I'm fairly confident that however they make the new system work out it will be fine as you can always just make extra detachments for each kabal/cult/covens. No way that incubi/mandrakes scourges would mudel that up anyway, since they have no hqs they'd have to be put into a detachment without interrupting the keyword abilities.

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Barking Agatha
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PostSubject: Re: Preorders for our Codex and new Start Collecting box next week!   Sun Mar 25 2018, 20:45

I would hardly call it 'slithering'. Suppose they were to ignore the NDAs and just spill the beans, what would happen?

1. It's unlikely that any legal penalties would actually be enforced, but the possibility is certainly there and could jeopardise them and their families.

2. Not only would GW never trust them again with advance information in order to provide input, they may well become more wary of trusting anyone else, keep their secrets to themselves from now on, and design their rules without any input from outsiders, as anyone inside GW can point to this example to prove that we can't be trusted.

3. There is such a thing as keeping your promises, NDA or no NDA.

4. You still wouldn't be happy.

So maybe give the guys a break? They made a promise not to tell and they're keeping it. Since when is that a bad thing?
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PostSubject: Re: Preorders for our Codex and new Start Collecting box next week!   Sun Mar 25 2018, 20:49

Typical really of the internet, people taking a little bit of information and already announcing the codex is bad. Remember all those people announcing 8th as terrible and that they were leaving the game before seeing the actual release.
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PostSubject: Re: Preorders for our Codex and new Start Collecting box next week!   Sun Mar 25 2018, 20:54

@Rusty293 wrote:
Typical really of the internet, people taking a little bit of information and already announcing the codex is bad. Remember all those people announcing 8th as terrible and that they were leaving the game before seeing the actual release.

Yeah but then you look at what happened to the Tau book...
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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: Preorders for our Codex and new Start Collecting box next week!   Sun Mar 25 2018, 20:54

Yeah it's way, way too early to be making such claims. We'll have a better idea what the codex will be like at the end of next week once all the daily community articles come out this week, but I personally won't make a judgement call on the codex until I have it in hand.

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PostSubject: Re: Preorders for our Codex and new Start Collecting box next week!   Sun Mar 25 2018, 20:56

@Barking Agatha wrote:
I would hardly call it 'slithering'. Suppose they were to ignore the NDAs and just spill the beans, what would happen?

1. It's unlikely that any legal penalties would actually be enforced, but the possibility is certainly there and could jeopardise them and their families.

2. Not only would GW never trust them again with advance information in order to provide input, they may well become more wary of trusting anyone else, keep their secrets to themselves from now on, and design their rules without any input from outsiders, as anyone inside GW can point to this example to prove that we can't be trusted.

3. There is such a thing as keeping your promises, NDA or no NDA.

4. You still wouldn't be happy.

So maybe give the guys a break? They made a promise not to tell and they're keeping it. Since when is that a bad thing?

When it goes against consumer advocacy, like the entirety of FLG's content since they signed on with GW. Their absolutely glowing review of Chapter Approved should be evidence enough of that.

If the play testers want to keep their reputation untarnished what they should do is prove they're not on GW's leash just because they signed an NDA. I'm not asking for them to leak info, never did I mention that. I am implying that once they signed that NDA they won't bite the hand that feeds even if what we're being fed is garbage. I'd like to see any play tester give a scathing opinion of any current GW product, or even an honest critical one.

Quote :
Remember all those people announcing 8th as terrible and that they were leaving the game before seeing the actual release.

8th is really bad.

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PostSubject: Re: Preorders for our Codex and new Start Collecting box next week!   Sun Mar 25 2018, 21:01

@TeenageAngst wrote:
@Barking Agatha wrote:
I would hardly call it 'slithering'. Suppose they were to ignore the NDAs and just spill the beans, what would happen?

1. It's unlikely that any legal penalties would actually be enforced, but the possibility is certainly there and could jeopardise them and their families.

2. Not only would GW never trust them again with advance information in order to provide input, they may well become more wary of trusting anyone else, keep their secrets to themselves from now on, and design their rules without any input from outsiders, as anyone inside GW can point to this example to prove that we can't be trusted.

3. There is such a thing as keeping your promises, NDA or no NDA.

4. You still wouldn't be happy.

So maybe give the guys a break? They made a promise not to tell and they're keeping it. Since when is that a bad thing?

When it goes against consumer advocacy, like the entirety of FLG's content since they signed on with GW. Their absolutely glowing review of Chapter Approved should be evidence enough of that.

If the play testers want to keep their reputation untarnished what they should do is prove they're not on GW's leash just because they signed an NDA. I'm not asking for them to leak info, never did I mention that. I am implying that once they signed that NDA they won't bite the hand that feeds even if what we're being fed is garbage. I'd like to see any play tester give a scathing opinion of any current GW product, or even an honest critical one.

Quote :
Remember all those people announcing 8th as terrible and that they were leaving the game before seeing the actual release.

8th is really bad.

You think 8th is bad, i think its good. I also have seen a huge increase in players.

And when they were play testing they might have tested 100's of options, but just b.c they didnt find some of the killer combos doesnt mean they didnt try nor did they not believe in what they were saying.

There is so much information behind the scenes that we dont know about, its impossible for us to call them out like you are.



And.. Back onto topic, its way to early to know anything, but them having Wyches and Reavers in a box set, i'm am thinking its b.c they didnt sell well, but i am REALLY hoping Reavers are much better, its one of my favorite DE models.

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PostSubject: Re: Preorders for our Codex and new Start Collecting box next week!   Sun Mar 25 2018, 21:06

I'm looking forward to running multiple detachments for coven, cult, and kabal each with its own set of bonuses. It's thematic and will also give us more command points.

Some people will never be happy and just like to complain.
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PostSubject: Re: Preorders for our Codex and new Start Collecting box next week!   Sun Mar 25 2018, 21:11

Quote :
There is so much information behind the scenes that we dont know about, its impossible for us to call them out like you are.

It's super easy. Have one of the play testers be critical of the Tau codex, or the Necrons, or the Daughters of Khaine. Have them tell us we shouldn't buy something because it's bad in their opinion. Or just throw shade at GW in general. They're not going to do it because they're on the take now. Their involvement GW invalidates everything they say.

Quote :
them having Wyches and Reavers in a box set, i'm am thinking its b.c they didnt sell well, but i am REALLY hoping Reavers are much better, its one of my favorite DE models.

Yeah it's always been about packing good models with one bad one to clear it out of the warehouse. I'm looking at YOU Wraithlord!

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PostSubject: Re: Preorders for our Codex and new Start Collecting box next week!   Sun Mar 25 2018, 21:12

Colour me excited.

Plus, I'd be alright if the factions were split entirely; the idea that the three splinters of the Drukhari going to war together isn't so much an alliance, so much as it is a deal (rife with backstabbing), strikes me as rather fluffy.

Overall, I'm feeling positive about this.

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PostSubject: Re: Preorders for our Codex and new Start Collecting box next week!   Sun Mar 25 2018, 21:13

Considering the description, I wouldn’t be surprised if you could mix kabala/coven/cults in the same detachments, but with only the factions represented by a character getting a special rule
For example, if you have in your army some Kabalite units and some coven unites, but just Kabalite characters, just the cabal units will get the special rule. If you have one Kabalite and one coven character, then all units will get special traits. I’m sure that mandrakes and scourges will have a “we don’t count” rule as Phoenix princes in eldar book.
I think this would be a fair solution.

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PostSubject: Re: Preorders for our Codex and new Start Collecting box next week!   Sun Mar 25 2018, 21:26

I imagine whatever Kabal/Coven/Cult rules we get will be designed to synergise with one another, which could lead to a variety of cool playstyles.

As a fluffy example, whatever rules the Kabal of the Black Heart and the Cult of Strife get might well synergise with one another really well.
That way we have an interesting way to represent the agreement between those two factions on the tabletop, as well as being able to field them as two separate armies if so desired.

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PostSubject: Re: Preorders for our Codex and new Start Collecting box next week!   Sun Mar 25 2018, 21:26

TeenageAngst, I don’t know how old are you and what is your job, but honestly all this hate towards “people not biting the hands who feed them” is very out of place. There is a difference between being a third part reviewing a product and a part of a working system. If you are working for a company and you produce something bad together, you shouldn’t go around saying “you know it’s bad because of the boss of the company” and the boss shouldn’t go around saying “you know, it’s bad because the workers in the factory (or the play testers from the internet)”. This is not how company works, this is how economies and systems fails. There is nothing morally wrong in not talking bad about your employer.

Splintermind guy exposed himself saying the codex is good, and if he did it, I’m sure it is because he genuinely believes so. If he believed the opposite, it would have been a lot simpler to just hide behind the NDA saying “you know... I cannot express comment before the codex is out”.

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