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 Did I just break the game?

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Tiax_Dalrok
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PostSubject: Did I just break the game?   Fri Mar 23 2018, 17:52

Hello, I have a question for you, it seems to me that I found a way to build a truly OP thing.
I would like to know what you think about it?
(I apologize in advance for my poor English)

First of all, by browsing the FAQ I came across such a thread

Q: If a model has two rules that allow it to ignore wounds, such
as the Disgustingly Resilient ability and the Tenacious Survivor
Warlord Trait, can I use them both?
A: Unless stated otherwise, yes.

I began to wonder if there is a model that can have so many similar skills that it statistically becomes unkillable

Unfortunately Dark eldar do not have such model

However, I found a certain error in the eldar code, specifically in the record regarding the vehicle equipment list and in the model datasheets (wave serpent) there is a record that allows you to take  ITEMS - plural

I never found the recording, which forbids taking the same improvements more then one.
If such a record does not exist, and I am right then for the cost of 100 (10x stone) points you can create an indestructible vehicle.

I will be grateful for opinions and thoughts, or correcting if this topic was discussed.
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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: Did I just break the game?   Fri Mar 23 2018, 18:59

Skills and abilities don't stack with themselves. E.g., if you're a Coven unit in aura range of two Haemonculi you don't get +2 toughness, only +1.
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Kantalla
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PostSubject: Re: Did I just break the game?   Fri Mar 23 2018, 20:22

Interesting idea.

The wording does allow you to take items, so in theory you could take multiple Spirit Stones upgrades.

The questionable bit is whether multiple Spirit Stones work independently, or whether you would get a single roll. The wording is:
"Roll a D6 each time a model with spirit stones suffers a wound or mortal wound: on a 6 the wound is ignored"

I would interpret that as a check on whether you have spirit stones (regardless of numbers) to earn a roll, rather than a roll for each set.

You could stack with Ulthwe's Craftworld trait, but I don't think multiple Spirit Stones will work.

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Ubernoob1
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PostSubject: Re: Did I just break the game?   Fri Mar 23 2018, 21:32

@Kantalla wrote:
You could stack with Ulthwe's Craftworld trait, but I don't think multiple Spirit Stones will work.

Except Ulthwe specifically does NOT stack with other forms of aftersaves...
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Tiax_Dalrok
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PostSubject: Re: Did I just break the game?   Sat Mar 24 2018, 08:08

@Burnage wrote:
Skills and abilities don't stack with themselves. E.g., if you're a Coven unit in aura range of two Haemonculi you don't get +2 toughness, only +1.

I have not seen a record saying that the Skills and abilities don't stack with themselves. And at the beginning of my previous post, I inserted a quote from the faq in which it is said that the ignoring damage stack.

Yes Haemonculi don't stack because it's written in the rule itself.
"Master of Pain: Add 1 Tougjness od friendlly <...> units within 6" of one or more models with this ability"

@Ubernoob1 wrote:

@Kantalla wrote:
You could stack with Ulthwe's Craftworld trait, but I don't think multiple Spirit Stones will work.

Except Ulthwe specifically does NOT stack with other forms of aftersaves...

Yes some of the skills have a record saying that it does not stack with other skills giving you this same buff, I assume that when GW give such a record to some skills, the base version of this ability is that they stack.

@Kantalla wrote:
The questionable bit is whether multiple Spirit Stones work independently, or whether you would get a single roll. The wording is:
"Roll a D6 each time a model with spirit stones suffers a wound or mortal wound: on a 6 the wound is ignored"

I would interpret that as a check on whether you have spirit stones (regardless of numbers) to earn a roll, rather than a roll for each set.

I agree that this depends on the intrpretation, but in this case, It can be tweaked in both directions, that it is one skill that we get for possession, no matter what number of the item we have, or it is the attribution assigned to one item. In this case it stack.

This is not clear to me, which is why I am specialists.
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Ikol
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PostSubject: Re: Did I just break the game?   Sat Mar 24 2018, 09:14

The Haemonculus rule gets around it with ‘within 6” of a model with this ability’ which disallows self-stacking. If it was worded ‘within 6” of this model’ it would stack with itself.

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Kantalla
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PostSubject: Re: Did I just break the game?   Sat Mar 24 2018, 09:16

I think it is fair to assume abilities stack unless they state otherwise, given GW generally makes an effort in the individual rules to state multiple abilities don't stack. Therefore when that is not stated, abilities should be allowed to stack.

"Roll a D6 each time a model with spirit stones suffers a wound or mortal wound: on a 6 the wound is ignored"

I am reading the rule as follows:
1) a model with one (or more) spirit stones is a 'model with spirit stones'
2) if the model suffers a wound then it qualifies to 'roll a D6' to avoid the wound
therefore
3) a single D6 roll is allowed even if multiple spirit stones were purchased

Basically, it is the same as being within range of one or more Haemonculi as I read it.

I think you would need a justification for saying each spirit stones upgrade operates independently to get your almost invulnerable Wave Serpent to be RAW.

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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: Did I just break the game?   Sat Mar 24 2018, 13:18

"A model with spirit stones"

Take as many as you want, doesn't change a thing, IMO.

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Tiax_Dalrok
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PostSubject: Re: Did I just break the game?   Sat Mar 24 2018, 20:21

@Mppqlmd wrote:
"A model with spirit stones"

Take as many as you want, doesn't change a thing, IMO.

the upgrade is called "spirit stones" no spirit stone this is one of the difficulties in interpreting this rule

To be precise I do not intend to play on it, I am interested in a purely academic degree

For me it still looks like the skill is attributed of the single upgrade.
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Dalakh
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PostSubject: Re: Did I just break the game?   Sat Mar 24 2018, 22:44

I think you broke the game about as much as the guy who discovered that you can throw nades with entire squads as Sautekh since they become Assault.

Catch is, Necrons don't actually have a single Grenade weapon.
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RedRegicide
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PostSubject: Re: Did I just break the game?   Sun Mar 25 2018, 00:58

I think you have a semantics argument, and good catch. But it would get vetoed by any TO and subsequently FAQ'd if it was a large enough event IMO

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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: Did I just break the game?   Sun Mar 25 2018, 02:13

@Tiax_Dalrok wrote:
@Mppqlmd wrote:
"A model with spirit stones"

Take as many as you want, doesn't change a thing, IMO.

the upgrade is called "spirit stones" no spirit stone this is one of the difficulties in interpreting this rule

I know, but I don't think that changes a thing. Here, the event is triggered by the presence of a model equipped with the item, and not by the item itself.



Your interpretation would be applicable with a rule like this : "Everytime the model equipped with this upgrade loses a wound...". There, the event would be fired from the item, which would make it stackable.

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