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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: v8 Codex tidbits   Fri Mar 16 2018, 23:08

Wasn't that because Cleopatra had an affair with Bismarck ?

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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: v8 Codex tidbits   Fri Mar 16 2018, 23:11

Geez you guys need to learn your history.

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PostSubject: Re: v8 Codex tidbits   Fri Mar 16 2018, 23:13

Let's just murder GW, wear their faces, and release our own codex!

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Bad-baden-baden
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PostSubject: Re: v8 Codex tidbits   Fri Mar 16 2018, 23:31

@Mppqlmd wrote:
Wasn't that because Cleopatra had an affair with Bismarck ?

Yeah, crazy how history works out, hey? Who would have known that such a perfect couple could birth to Adolf Hitler?
Well, I guess that's the dangers of having an affair with your first cousin: You end up with the man responsible for discovering America.
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HERO
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PostSubject: Re: v8 Codex tidbits   Fri Mar 16 2018, 23:43

So back on track:

Regardless of whether or not these guys are right, I don't want to see us falling into sub-factions in a single book. This would mean a lot of dissynergy and I don't see that as making us effective as an army. It can also be a bad translation, meaning that there might be:

<Kabal>, <Wych Cult>, <Haemonculi> keywords

And certain strategems or weapons or buffs are only applicable to them. So a Succubus for example, can only benefit Wych Cults, Haemonculi to Haemonculi and so on. I don't see Kabal as a possibility, as Archons should be as flexible as Autarchs in leading <Drukkari> units, but we'll see.
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Bad-baden-baden
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PostSubject: Re: v8 Codex tidbits   Fri Mar 16 2018, 23:55

There's honestly not a lot to talk about. We have barely more vague information from a beta codex. Nothing in this could be accurate except likely the advance and charge wych cult. The codex release will be like every other codex. People will be salty with how watered down everything is, there will be one bad thing that everyone will latch on to, then in a couple weeks strategies will be formed and we'll be "solid."

I doubt we will have the same mobility and customization we used to have. Dark Eldar will be an army that is no longer identified by speed. Instead, they'll be the "3 armies in one" eldar.
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HERO
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PostSubject: Re: v8 Codex tidbits   Fri Mar 16 2018, 23:57

@Bad-baden-baden wrote:
There's honestly not a lot to talk about. We have barely more vague information from a beta codex. Nothing in this could be accurate except likely the advance and charge wych cult. The codex release will be like every other codex. People will be salty with how watered down everything is, there will be one bad thing that everyone will latch on to, then in a couple weeks strategies will be formed and we'll be "solid."

I doubt we will have the same mobility and customization we used to have. Dark Eldar will be an army that is no longer identified by speed. Instead, they'll be the "3 armies in one" eldar.

Giving us 18" movement on all vehicles would be a good start, with no modifier for heavy weapons on anything.
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Bad-baden-baden
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PostSubject: Re: v8 Codex tidbits   Sat Mar 17 2018, 00:03

@HERO wrote:
@Bad-baden-baden wrote:
There's honestly not a lot to talk about. We have barely more vague information from a beta codex. Nothing in this could be accurate except likely the advance and charge wych cult. The codex release will be like every other codex. People will be salty with how watered down everything is, there will be one bad thing that everyone will latch on to, then in a couple weeks strategies will be formed and we'll be "solid."

I doubt we will have the same mobility and customization we used to have. Dark Eldar will be an army that is no longer identified by speed. Instead, they'll be the "3 armies in one" eldar.

Giving us 18" movement on all vehicles would be a good start, with no modifier for heavy weapons on anything.

If it happens I'll be content. I'm certain it won't go higher than 16" for anything but perhaps jetbikes. Even if we do move 18",it's still too slow in the grand scheme of things. Gone are the days of advancing 36" across the board, while at most the enemy is moving 18". The movement phase doesn't matter anymore: there's virtually no strategy to it anymore.

Sisters of battle can act of faith like mad up the board. Everything in every army can deepstrike. The traditional weaknesses of many armies - the fact that their slow - is entirely negated in many cases. Indirectly this means Dark Eldars traditional strength is negligible.

I don't doubt well get stratagems to move like mental in our boats, but only being able to move really fast with 1 boat still sucks.
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FuelDrop
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PostSubject: Re: v8 Codex tidbits   Sat Mar 17 2018, 00:09

so, for proper DE speed, I think we need 16" move 2d6 advance (3d6 with enhanced sails) on our vehicles, with Venoms having 18" (but no sails).

Allow units to disembark (but not move or advance) after moving or advancing, counting as having moved or advanced respectively for the purpose of shooting and charging.

Cult units should be able to Advance and Charge by default.
Kabals need to be able to shoot after advancing. Not caring specific details.

When all this is done, we can claim to be fast enough for it to matter.
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Bad-baden-baden
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PostSubject: Re: v8 Codex tidbits   Sat Mar 17 2018, 00:16

@FuelDrop wrote:
so, for proper DE speed, I think we need 16" move 2d6 advance (3d6 with enhanced sails) on our vehicles, with Venoms having 18" (but no sails).

Allow units to disembark (but not move or advance) after moving or advancing, counting as having moved or advanced respectively for the purpose of shooting and charging.

Cult units should be able to Advance and Charge by default.
Kabals need to be able to shoot after advancing. Not caring specific details.

When all this is done, we can claim to be fast enough for it to matter.


That's exactly the problem though, I would be shocked if we got all of this. At most I'm hoping for kaballites to get splinter rifles turned into A2, and raiders move 16" with a flat 6-8" advance, while they can ignore the advance penalties. Even with that we'd be too slow, and it's already some pretty big demands.

I don't doubt well get a stratagem to flat out move a vehicle double it's move characteristic. Well probably get another that allows a unit to disembark after a vehicle has moved. Its still to slow, because it only affects 1 vehicle. Unless we have some big CC overhauls, none of our CC is worth using these stratagems on. And even if we did, we wouldnt want to commit more than 1 unit to that CC, because of the bloody atratagem known as "counter attack."

I don't know about you guys, but that bloody stratagem absolutely ruins my attempts at any major CC lists. It works for armies like Death company and sangunary guard, because sangunary guard are resilient enough to survive counterattack. We are not.
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PostSubject: Re: v8 Codex tidbits   Sat Mar 17 2018, 00:50

To be honest I don't think giving us more speed will change much, unlike other armies our whole army is fast, unless of course you're footslogging, which only begs the question "why?"

I'm of the opinion of our fellow like minded posters from before that what we need is a way to charge from our vehicles and synergy, any synergy would be good.

Basically how i see it;
We have no psychic defense, even though we hate psyker's, and have a whole society built on erasing psykers from existence if they even get close.
We have no way to get into combat reliably without getting shot to pieces.
We have no internal synergy due to splitting the army in 3.
We seem to be paying tax on everything for no reason, our army is badly costed and really out of whack.
They gimped our small arms dark light for no reason and over costed them, why was there a need to do this? i'm looking at you Eldar fusion pistol/gun.

If they fix all this and and show some love to covens and wyche cult units i'll be happy.
On the plus side i have hope due to what they did with Eldar, those points adjustments were really good. If GW manages to mess all this up then i'll settle for reavers.

Bring reavers Back Gdub, bring reavers back...
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PostSubject: Re: v8 Codex tidbits   Sat Mar 17 2018, 01:11

Until some mensch gives us grainy cell phone pictures of a points spread, knowing what does what is kind of meaningless. Everything is dependent on cost/benefit. If the Talos was unchanged except for only costing 20 points + wargear I would smother my lists in them like so much Plugra.

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PostSubject: Re: v8 Codex tidbits   Sat Mar 17 2018, 01:20

@TeenageAngst wrote:
Until some mensch gives us grainy cell phone pictures of a points spread, knowing what does what is kind of meaningless. Everything is dependent on cost/benefit. If the Talos was unchanged except for only costing 20 points + wargear I would smother my lists in them like so much Plugra.

Agreed . I think it's the best we can hope for: to get significant points reductions and a few stat changes here and there. I'm doubting we'll see significant reworked. None of the codexes really have.
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MitchH311
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PostSubject: Re: v8 Codex tidbits   Sat Mar 17 2018, 02:08

Just keeping in mind, the guys at Splinter Mind have already said that the beta rules they saw are "really solid" and that GW asked for feedback from people who play Dark Eldar a lot. I'm going to keep clinging to the vestiges of hope, a lot like a down and out Kabalite, clings to the last vestiges of their soul. Desperately and in denial lol.

I'm hoping that faction specific benefits are unlocked via taking HQ's. Coven units only receive buffs in this Detachment if you took a Haemonculus HQ, but the same Detachment can include a Succubus to unlock cult buffs as well.
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PostSubject: Re: v8 Codex tidbits   Sat Mar 17 2018, 02:19

And if it all goes wrong, we could try making a community ‘dex. Show them what we want for a good and interesting, yet fair codex.
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PostSubject: Re: v8 Codex tidbits   Sat Mar 17 2018, 02:21

I do not trust Splintermind because they, like everyone else who was a play tester, are hiding behind their NDAs like shields.

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PostSubject: Re: v8 Codex tidbits   Sat Mar 17 2018, 02:27

Adhering to a legally binding NDA isn't exactly a good reason to distrust a source.
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PostSubject: Re: v8 Codex tidbits   Sat Mar 17 2018, 02:37

@Burnage wrote:
Adhering to a legally binding NDA isn't exactly a good reason to distrust a source.

Let's follow this train of thought for a minute.

They have to follow the NDA. The NDA makes it so they cannot give any specifics. But they are allowed to make vague statements such as it being "solid" (at this point I can only assume physically solid as opposed to liquid or gas). No one who gets this exclusive access has ever said anything negative about the products before or even after the release of the products in question, nor have they taken any responsibility for any shortcomings in the end result in spite of apparently being important enough to help GW with beta testing. Just look at the FLG reviews of GW products prior to their being involved with them in play testing, and then look at their review of that burning dumpster Chapter Approved.

Currently they are acting like every other play tester, nothing but rainbows and sunshine about the new product in question. To believe them, I need evidence that they have been critical of other GW products since becoming involved with them. That way I know they're not afraid to bite the hand that feeds so to speak for the sake of consumer advocacy.

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PostSubject: Re: v8 Codex tidbits   Sat Mar 17 2018, 06:02

@TeenageAngst wrote:
I do not trust Splintermind because they, like everyone else who was a play tester, are hiding behind their NDAs like shields.

"Hiding."
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PostSubject: Re: v8 Codex tidbits   Sat Mar 17 2018, 06:08

I believe the word you were looking for was Resistance, and not revolution.

Anyways, I am, probably like many of you, hopeful and yet highly skeptical. The biggest problem I have with GW removing Trueborn from the Codex would be the absolute devastation this could have on the lore for our faction. The Trueborn may or may not be richer than any other Dark Eldar, doesn’t matter. Wealth and status change everyday in The Dark City. Their important factor is the fact that they were created through a natural process. They have a biological mother that gave birth to them, instead of being like any other disposable test tube baby Kabalite. They inherit the status of their parents just from breathing and live as close to a silver spoon life as can occur. By removing Trueborn. Games Workshop’s décision can imply that all Dark Eldar are the same when fighting in Kabalite armor. Which we all know, based on the individual’s prowess, is completely untrue. So personally as a casual player, I will be more frustrated at the implicit lore changes and feel of the army if and when we lose our Trueborn. Sad

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PostSubject: Re: v8 Codex tidbits   Sat Mar 17 2018, 11:04

I guess being a true born will be an upgrade of basic warriors. I really hope we can keep those for blasters. I love my converted true born just so much!

But they are kind of redundant compared to scourge...
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PostSubject: Re: v8 Codex tidbits   Sat Mar 17 2018, 11:24

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the GW stance on using index-alone stuff along with codex allow to use units that are no longer present as well ? It's not much but it's better than nothing I guess if it's true.

Otherwise : 3CP - Trueborn Warriors : Choose one Kabalite Warrior unit of your army to be Trueborn Warriorswoooohooooo, so good. jocolor
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PostSubject: Re: v8 Codex tidbits   Sat Mar 17 2018, 11:37

Trueborn fill the same role as Havocs, Devastators, or Chaos Chosen.

Theoretically they should be somewhat similar to Sternguard veterans much like Bloodbrides should be roughly analogous to Vanguard veterans, however due to incompetent handling and stripping away anything unique about them from the 5th edition codex they no longer fill those roles well.

My friend plays chaos and has run the numbers. Chosen are worthless because havocs exist, more or less. We don't have the same option for Havoc equivalents, so our trueborn still have a place.

Hell, swap out the splinter rifle with a shardcarbine and give them ghostplate armour. They are now elite, noticably different from Warriors in effectiveness, while not in the same exact same role as Scourges due to being able to use vehicles and being cheaper.
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PostSubject: Re: v8 Codex tidbits   Sat Mar 17 2018, 12:52

They shouldn't have ghost plate armour. Too similar to scourges.
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PostSubject: Re: v8 Codex tidbits   Sat Mar 17 2018, 13:01

Quote :
I believe the word you were looking for was Resistance, and not revolution.

Quote :
Geez you guys need to learn your history.

Very Happy
Quote :

Yeah, crazy how history works out, hey? Who would have known that such a perfect couple could birth to Adolf Hitler?
Well, I guess that's the dangers of having an affair with your first cousin: You end up with the man responsible for discovering America.

At least America gave us french fries. Which were then used in the Third French Revolution (initiated by Jeanne d'Arc and Napoleon) to counter to armies of Hitler Von Bismarck (son of Cleopatra).

Quote :
They shouldn't have ghost plate armour. Too similar to scourges.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but wasn't GPA available to Trueborns in 5th codex ?

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