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Dalakh
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PostSubject: v8 Codex tidbits   Fri Mar 16 2018, 01:42

Hello people,

Future True Kin commander and frenchie here.

I grasped some tidbits about the future codex from this french stream and I though I'd share with you. For info these guys have had the beta codex and are definitely legit.



What I got aside from the generic solid codex, msu army, in-your-face:

- 4++ on haemies
-reavers are supposedly awesome, they move 18", still advance 8" and can then charge, I don't know if that requires stratagems, specific faction however, but definitely a can-do
-lightly implied that one cult trait could be advance+charge (allowing the above)
-strongly implied (everything is "strongly implied" let's not say that anymore) bonus for pure kabal/coven/cult detachment
(comparison with daemon locus), likely it's just the <faction> trait that only works on a full <faction> detachment
-Trueborn are not an entry in the codex (what ???)
-Coven with armywide -1 AP in CC (likely a faction trait)
-leaving the first turn to a drukhari cc list, not a good idea (apparently)
-Drahzar fights twice in some way (compared to berzerks)
-mandrakes and incubi not being linked to factions doesn't work too good for them (obviously linked to full faction detachment boni)
-they did say drukhari were a decent cc army

That's all folks, grab your salt and cya.
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HERO
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PostSubject: Re: v8 Codex tidbits   Fri Mar 16 2018, 03:49

This is really high level..

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PostSubject: Re: v8 Codex tidbits   Fri Mar 16 2018, 03:49

They do look definably legit... especially with your first posting account. Combine that with the fact that early testers have signed a non disclosure agreement and would/should not show their faces in a video...

Also, why do I want a beta ruleset. Which means anything is possible. Anything can be in or out.
Not helpful at all.

Dismissed.

*Goes and tries to find a new plaything that isn’t broken*

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FuelDrop
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PostSubject: Re: v8 Codex tidbits   Fri Mar 16 2018, 04:29

This looks bad.
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: v8 Codex tidbits   Fri Mar 16 2018, 06:23

Some things do look interesting, but i guess we'll need more info to decide whether to be enthusiastic or depressed.

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FuelDrop
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PostSubject: Re: v8 Codex tidbits   Fri Mar 16 2018, 06:50

So, here's what's setting off my warning bells.

Reavers can already move 18 (drug enhanced bikes) with 8 inch advance. If as indicated assault after charge is a cult tactic, that means that there is not necessarily any change to the Reavers.

Our army needs to be multiple elements working together. Anything that punishes us for taking the majority of our army is bad. However, if this can be averted by taking multiple detachments, that's fine.

HOWEVER, it looks like we will be actively punished for taking Incubi and Mandrakes. To the best of my knowledge no other army is punished for taking specific units with no way out of it.

Likely that we are losing both Trueborn and Bloodbrides, if Trueborn are out of the codex the Bloodbrides are going with them.

In summery, these leaks if accurate appear to indicate we're being pushed towards running Ynnari.
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lament.config
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PostSubject: Re: v8 Codex tidbits   Fri Mar 16 2018, 09:08

Bonuses for taking pure detachments of kabal, coven, or cult could be handy if we are getting bonuses for taking <NAMED> kabal, coven, or cult. Not sure if that what the video implies as I don't speech French but, that could make for interesting list building options. Trying to fit two battalions and a vanguard or similar detachment is a good amount of command points and still allows us to bring representatives from all the factions of the dark city.

The haemonculus getting a 4++ is good news. -1 AP in close combat on coven sounds good too. Advance and charge on reavers (a unit that is faster than genestealers)could be really good if they get a solid points drop and cluster caltrops or grav talons get better.

Not knowing exactly how incubi, mandrakes, and scourges fit into these specific factions is something to watch but, I'll take a wait and see approach to that news.

I'm really waiting to see how our points adjust and what stratagems we get. Any weapon profile changes would be interesting as well.
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PartZebra
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PostSubject: Re: v8 Codex tidbits   Fri Mar 16 2018, 09:17

Similar "leaks" were mentioned on the Drukhari facebook page the other day. I wager from the same source.

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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: v8 Codex tidbits   Fri Mar 16 2018, 10:45

If this turns out to be true then I really don't understand why GW are so keen on splitting the Kabal, Wych Cult and Coven units. The Daemon split seems fluffy, this doesn't.
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ricorongen
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PostSubject: Re: v8 Codex tidbits   Fri Mar 16 2018, 10:52

It does sounds nice being a kabal focused player to be rewarded for it, but i am afraid that we get just some cool things and the rest utter crap like we are used to by gdubs for the last 2 codexes.

Time will tell though!

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PostSubject: Re: v8 Codex tidbits   Fri Mar 16 2018, 10:56

@Burnage wrote:
If this turns out to be true then I really don't understand why GW are so keen on splitting the Kabal, Wych Cult and Coven units. The Daemon split seems fluffy, this doesn't.

My biggest point on that is I have yet to meet a daemon player who wasn't trying to field mono-god armies more times than not anyways, though I do have a friend who would have liked some kind of bonus for undivided. With dark eldar it wasn't until 8e that I even considered them to ever mechanically be as separated as they are now, with maybe the exception of Haemonculi removing fleet from wyches if they were in a unit together or the haemonculus supplement perhaps. So yes, I am a bit worried about this and have been for a while but I certainly hope however it works out that it works out well. Getting cheaper HQs (or at least ones that we like...) to help fill out those detachments would be nice.

Now...if what they are doing is having specific kabal, cult, and coven traits to pick from as long as you have a wholly dark eldar detachment, but then ANOTHER non-choice kabal, cult, or coven bonus if the whole detachment is just one of them would be interesting...

Of course I had also wondered if doing something like that for the game as a whole might be interesting? Having two detachments, one of say ultramarines and one of cadians gets you the ultramarines and cadian traits but if your whole army was just one or the other there was yet another space marine or guardsmen trait gained. I think I heard once that age of sigmar works like that? The more specific your army faction gets the more stuff you get for it. Does anyone know if that's true and if so how well does it work for the game?
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ILovehashbrowns
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PostSubject: Re: v8 Codex tidbits   Fri Mar 16 2018, 11:30

I am really worried about what the codex will bring, I think that by forcing us into 3 sub factions they will essentially make us inept, as I feel like all of our stratagems will be for the wrong things.
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RedRegicide
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PostSubject: Re: v8 Codex tidbits   Fri Mar 16 2018, 12:08

Hey guys, I know there is some bad in this, but let's look at the silver linings:

Mercenaries: I'm sad to see my beautiful shadow people effectively nerfed by being denied traits, but we can still include these guys to fill slots in formations that have traits that would be useless for them. It's not much of a silver lining, but if they get a slight price drop I think they will stil be competitive without the trait.

With a point decrease, reavers will be extremely different now. The advance and charge trait makes them dangerous at up to 26" + 7" average charge. We wanted speed and we have it.

Suddenly wyches are able to get into combat easier, b/c now they can advance out of transports.

Covens NEEDED that -1 AP in CC. Thank Vect.

I think that this will gear us towards making 'Ynnari style' armies, where we take 3 detachments, one for coven, cult and kabal. We just need to take one battalion, then 2 specialist (outrider or spearhead or w.e) so we'll be playing with an average of 4 HQs and 8 CP

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: v8 Codex tidbits   Fri Mar 16 2018, 12:14

Honestly, Beta rules and No pics = dont care, at least the necrons leaks had pics.

And if any of it is true, especially no trueborn, thats the stupidest thing GW could do with DE right now, taking away one of the more played units.

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PostSubject: Re: v8 Codex tidbits   Fri Mar 16 2018, 12:38

@amishprn86 wrote:
Honestly, Beta rules and No pics = dont care, at least the necrons leaks had pics.

And if any of it is true, especially no trueborn, thats the stupidest thing GW could do with DE right now, taking away one of the more played units.


In fact, GW should bring them away from the Codex, with the Bloodbrides too.

Trueborn and Bloodbrides have no models, and no models=no rules in the Codex. All the Codex cut out any no-model rule from the game (and that's why there's the rule that allow you to pick some index choices in you army anyway).

So this is in line with the GW production right now. Anyway I'm not afraid about that: they can litterally push the Wyches at 2 Attacks and cut the Brides, and bring to the Kabal more special weapon choices (without the +1D +1A, keeping them at 7 points) and cut the Trueborn.
Honestly, Brides-Wyches and Kabal-Trueborn are kinda redundant in a matter of choices. Turn the pairs in one single choice will be a good way to boost the second choices (Kabal, Wyches) without the cost of the firsts (Trueborn, Bloodbrides).

Of course they will nevere put 4 Blasters in a Kabal unit but maybe a midway between them...like, 2 blaster in 5, 4 blaster in 10? Or something like that.



Anyway I don't know if these rumors are consistent, but they sounds litterally in line with the actual GW marketing/ruledesign. Bring different Detatchment with different rules is totally fine (and BG too, actually these are 3 nearly-indipendent organizations) and Daemons are a good precedent.
The other way is to do something like DarkAngels (Dark Eldar) with Ravenwing and Deathwing (Coven, Cult, Kabal). So just one army with special rules (Dark Eldar-Dark Angels) and some stratagems for the keywords (Wings-CCK).


Honestly, I hope these rules are real. I'll prefer the Daemons way more than the DarkAngels way.
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PostSubject: Re: v8 Codex tidbits   Fri Mar 16 2018, 13:03

If they increase the number of special weapons available to kabalite warriors (2 blasters per unit would be reasonable) and increase the number of base attacks that wyches have, then I won't really miss trueborn/bloodbrides.

It would be good if they put the Dracon back in as an 'Archon-lite' HQ choice, however.

Incubi/Mandrakes not having faction traits probably won't be a big deal if they have strong rules by themselves, and as long as taking them doesn't interfere with the ability to use faction traits for the rest of the army.
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PostSubject: Re: v8 Codex tidbits   Fri Mar 16 2018, 13:22

Consider me extremely skeptic about this, sound more like conjectures and wishlisting by someone who never played Dark Eldar in the first place, most of the stuff looks like a copy-paste from other codex.

All in all not what a "solid codex" would be like.
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PostSubject: Re: v8 Codex tidbits   Fri Mar 16 2018, 13:34

@Logan Frost wrote:
Consider me extremely skeptic about this, sound more like conjectures and wishlisting by someone who never played Dark Eldar in the first place, most of the stuff looks like a copy-paste from other codex.

All in all not what a "solid codex" would be like.

There is also a historical precedent for people rumor-trolling DE players when a new codex is expected. The Warseer rumors around.. early 2010 I think.. come to mind. Though it's funny how some of them turned out to be pretty accurate, though it was admitted that the rumors were all 100% made-up.
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PostSubject: Re: v8 Codex tidbits   Fri Mar 16 2018, 16:35

Quote :


In fact, GW should bring them away from the Codex, with the Bloodbrides too.  

Trueborn and Bloodbrides have no models, and no models=no rules in the Codex. All the Codex cut out any no-model rule from the game (and that's why there's the rule that allow you to pick some index choices in you army anyway).

So this is in line with the GW production right now. Anyway I'm not afraid about that: they can litterally push the Wyches at 2 Attacks and cut the Brides, and bring to the Kabal more special weapon choices (without the +1D +1A, keeping them at 7 points) and cut the Trueborn.
Honestly, Brides-Wyches and Kabal-Trueborn are kinda redundant in a matter of choices. Turn the pairs in one single choice will be a good way to boost the second choices (Kabal, Wyches) without the cost of the firsts (Trueborn, Bloodbrides).

Of course they will nevere put 4 Blasters in a Kabal unit but maybe a midway between them...like, 2 blaster in 5, 4 blaster in 10? Or something like that.



Anyway I don't know if these rumors are consistent, but they sounds litterally in line with the actual GW marketing/ruledesign. Bring different Detatchment with different rules is totally fine (and BG too, actually these are 3 nearly-indipendent organizations) and Daemons are a good precedent.
The other way is to do something like DarkAngels (Dark Eldar) with Ravenwing and Deathwing (Coven, Cult, Kabal). So just one army with special rules (Dark Eldar-Dark Angels) and some stratagems for the keywords (Wings-CCK).


Honestly, I hope these rules are real. I'll prefer the Daemons way more than the DarkAngels way.

they will also not put up to 4 blasters in a unit of 10 warriors because the box only has 2 special weapons, one of them a shredder and two heavy weapons. Same thing happened to the archon losing how much of his wargear? 70%? This is most likely also the reason why reavers only have 1 blaster/3 models.
as for the 3 parts of the army, I hope they dont do it the dark angels way, the chapter tactic does absolutely nothing for death and ravenwing and there are (almost) no stratagems to synergize these 3 groups.
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PostSubject: Re: v8 Codex tidbits   Fri Mar 16 2018, 16:45

I think these rumors are on the right track. All of these is amazing if there are some slight tweaks to the units they concern. If wracks get a points drop, talos get a statlines increase, wyches get another base attack, reavers get points drop etc etc, then all of this is great news.
The multiple detachment is annoying, but not the end of the world either. Definitely leans to the more disappointing thing, but with significant points drops, filling out these detachments will be fine
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PostSubject: Re: v8 Codex tidbits   Fri Mar 16 2018, 17:21

Can't say any of these changes excite me. The only thing I am interested right now are the Strategems, synergies, buffs and wargear rules.

Also, I could imagine that they handle Trueborn and Bloodbrides just like they did in 7th edition, as an upgrade that changes their role. But I could live without these 2 units because they haven't seen much play anyway.

After all, Scourges seem to be the better Trueborn anyway and GW doesn't seem to know how to fix a unit such as the Bloodbrides. I have no doubt that the next codex will be good, I am only afraid that it won't be fun.

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PostSubject: Re: v8 Codex tidbits   Fri Mar 16 2018, 17:29

@The Strange Dark One wrote:
Can't say any of these changes excite me. The only thing I am interested right now are the Strategems, synergies, buffs and wargear rules.

Also, I could imagine that they handle Trueborn and Bloodbrides just like they did in 7th edition, as an upgrade that changes their role. But I could live without these 2 units because they haven't seen much play anyway.

After all, Scourges seem to be the better Trueborn anyway and GW doesn't seem to know how to fix a unit such as the Bloodbrides. I have no doubt that the next codex will be good, I am only afraid that it won't be fun.

Definitely agree. I'm more interested to see if our transports went up to 16" movement and if capacity increased. That and changes to our HQs, what sort of synergies we can have etc.
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PostSubject: Re: v8 Codex tidbits   Fri Mar 16 2018, 18:29

@Cerve wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
Honestly, Beta rules and No pics = dont care, at least the necrons leaks had pics.

And if any of it is true, especially no trueborn, thats the stupidest thing GW could do with DE right now, taking away one of the more played units.


In fact, GW should bring them away from the Codex, with the Bloodbrides too.  

Trueborn and Bloodbrides have no models, and no models=no rules in the Codex. All the Codex cut out any no-model rule from the game (and that's why there's the rule that allow you to pick some index choices in you army anyway).

So this is in line with the GW production right now. Anyway I'm not afraid about that: they can litterally push the Wyches at 2 Attacks and cut the Brides, and bring to the Kabal more special weapon choices (without the +1D +1A, keeping them at 7 points) and cut the Trueborn.
Honestly, Brides-Wyches and Kabal-Trueborn are kinda redundant in a matter of choices. Turn the pairs in one single choice will be a good way to boost the second choices (Kabal, Wyches) without the cost of the firsts (Trueborn, Bloodbrides).

Of course they will nevere put 4 Blasters in a Kabal unit but maybe a midway between them...like, 2 blaster in 5, 4 blaster in 10? Or something like that.



Anyway I don't know if these rumors are consistent, but they sounds litterally in line with the actual GW marketing/ruledesign. Bring different Detatchment with different rules is totally fine (and BG too, actually these are 3 nearly-indipendent organizations) and Daemons are a good precedent.
The other way is to do something like DarkAngels (Dark Eldar) with Ravenwing and Deathwing (Coven, Cult, Kabal). So just one army with special rules (Dark Eldar-Dark Angels) and some stratagems for the keywords (Wings-CCK).


Honestly, I hope these rules are real. I'll prefer the Daemons way more than the DarkAngels way.

You know MANY units still dont have models and/or gear and still got rules in codex right? DE is literally the only army that is following this new rules idea from GW.

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PostSubject: Re: v8 Codex tidbits   Fri Mar 16 2018, 18:36

@amishprn86 wrote:
@Cerve wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
Honestly, Beta rules and No pics = dont care, at least the necrons leaks had pics.

And if any of it is true, especially no trueborn, thats the stupidest thing GW could do with DE right now, taking away one of the more played units.


In fact, GW should bring them away from the Codex, with the Bloodbrides too.  

Trueborn and Bloodbrides have no models, and no models=no rules in the Codex. All the Codex cut out any no-model rule from the game (and that's why there's the rule that allow you to pick some index choices in you army anyway).

So this is in line with the GW production right now. Anyway I'm not afraid about that: they can litterally push the Wyches at 2 Attacks and cut the Brides, and bring to the Kabal more special weapon choices (without the +1D +1A, keeping them at 7 points) and cut the Trueborn.
Honestly, Brides-Wyches and Kabal-Trueborn are kinda redundant in a matter of choices. Turn the pairs in one single choice will be a good way to boost the second choices (Kabal, Wyches) without the cost of the firsts (Trueborn, Bloodbrides).

Of course they will nevere put 4 Blasters in a Kabal unit but maybe a midway between them...like, 2 blaster in 5, 4 blaster in 10? Or something like that.



Anyway I don't know if these rumors are consistent, but they sounds litterally in line with the actual GW marketing/ruledesign. Bring different Detatchment with different rules is totally fine (and BG too, actually these are 3 nearly-indipendent organizations) and Daemons are a good precedent.
The other way is to do something like DarkAngels (Dark Eldar) with Ravenwing and Deathwing (Coven, Cult, Kabal). So just one army with special rules (Dark Eldar-Dark Angels) and some stratagems for the keywords (Wings-CCK).


Honestly, I hope these rules are real. I'll prefer the Daemons way more than the DarkAngels way.

You know MANY units still dont have models and/or gear and still got rules in codex right? DE is literally the only army that is following this new rules idea from GW.

Guard lost roughriders, tyranids lost (shrikes? Gargoyles? Can't remember which is which), Blood Angels lost DC chaplains to name a few examples, so, it is par for the course.
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PostSubject: Re: v8 Codex tidbits   Fri Mar 16 2018, 18:42

Quote :
Guard lost roughriders, tyranids lost (shrikes? Gargoyles? Can't remember which is which), Blood Angels lost DC chaplains to name a few examples, so, it is par for the course.

True, but a lot of those, rough riders especially, were models that are OOP. Guard Veterans also come to mind, which are, basically, exactly the same as Trueborn

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