HomeDark Eldar WikiDark Eldar ResourcesNull CityFAQUsergroupsRegisterLog in

Share | 
 

 Incubi modelling question - Demiglaives = 2 swords?

Go down 
AuthorMessage
FattimusMcGee
Hellion
avatar

Posts : 55
Join date : 2018-03-03

PostSubject: Incubi modelling question - Demiglaives = 2 swords?   Sat Mar 03 2018, 21:54

Hey guys! Hopefully this isn't a silly question, but I'm working on putting together my Incubi and really want to go for the Demiklaives on the leader - My question is, for WYSIWYG, are the Demiklaives considered 2 separate swords?

I've tried searching for images on Google and every squad I see is the same (gotta love monopose!). Does someone mind clarifying for me?

Thanks!!!


(I'm assuming it is indeed 2 swords)
Back to top Go down
FuelDrop
Hekatrix
avatar

Posts : 1392
Join date : 2015-06-21

PostSubject: Re: Incubi modelling question - Demiglaives = 2 swords?   Sat Mar 03 2018, 22:48

@FattimusMcGee wrote:
Hey guys! Hopefully this isn't a silly question, but I'm working on putting together my Incubi and really want to go for the Demiklaives on the leader - My question is, for WYSIWYG, are the Demiklaives considered 2 separate swords?

I've tried searching for images on Google and every squad I see is the same (gotta love monopose!). Does someone mind clarifying for me?

Thanks!!!


(I'm assuming it is indeed 2 swords)

I believe it can be both. Don't believe that GW actually sells a model with demiclaves. I also think that Demiclaves are sure not worth 8 points!
Back to top Go down
Barrywise
Wych
avatar

Posts : 614
Join date : 2012-11-14
Location : Illinois

PostSubject: Re: Incubi modelling question - Demiglaives = 2 swords?   Sun Mar 04 2018, 00:55

Looking at word roots, the demi-klaive is a half klaive right? or a pair of half klaives. You could literally cut one of the klaives in half, just below the higher handle and use that. Personally I think that looks kinda dumb, like 2 weird looking butcher-knife-axe hybrids. I'd say just use two power swords or something.

_________________
Want to chat in real time with your fellow archons? Join our Discord channel -> https://discord.gg/5yhRP7v
Back to top Go down
FuelDrop
Hekatrix
avatar

Posts : 1392
Join date : 2015-06-21

PostSubject: Re: Incubi modelling question - Demiglaives = 2 swords?   Sun Mar 04 2018, 01:50

Yeah... but why would you want to? I am not sure that +2 attacks is ever worth -1 strength, +1 AP, and 8 points.
Particularly on something that already has a lot of attacks, but a low strength.
Back to top Go down
Malifik
Slave
avatar

Posts : 7
Join date : 2013-01-11

PostSubject: Re: Incubi modelling question - Demiglaives = 2 swords?   Sun Mar 04 2018, 02:12

A Demiklaive can be used as a single or dual blade so there’s little issue with using a regular Incubus model as a Klaivex. If you’re really worried about WYSIWYG then just paint the Klaivex to differentiate him from the rest of the squad.
Back to top Go down
FattimusMcGee
Hellion
avatar

Posts : 55
Join date : 2018-03-03

PostSubject: Re: Incubi modelling question - Demiglaives = 2 swords?   Sun Mar 04 2018, 02:25

@FuelDrop wrote:
Yeah... but why would you want to? I am not sure that +2 attacks is ever worth -1 strength, +1 AP, and 8 points.
Particularly on something that already has a lot of attacks, but a low strength.


Here is a blurb from 1d4chan that helps clarify (I tend to agree):

"Demiklaives: Single Blade vs Dual Blade: There's no reason not to buy the twin swords, ever. Assuming everything hits with the Twin Blades you can expect 3 wounds vs T3, 2 Wounds vs T4-5 and 1 Wound vs T6 up. With the Single Blade you can expect to see 2.6 Wounds vs T3, 2 Wounds vs T4, 1.3 Wounds vs T5-7 and 0.6 wounds vs T8+."

So for units with bad Armor Saves (6/7+) or low T, Demi-Klaives comes out on tops (if just slightly). The way I look at it, that's 8pts for a potential 2 additional W's. I'll need to try it a bit, but yeah, it's a valid option **imho**. I'll need to do some Mathhammer later

Back to top Go down
Kantalla
Wych
avatar

Posts : 840
Join date : 2015-12-21

PostSubject: Re: Incubi modelling question - Demiglaives = 2 swords?   Sun Mar 04 2018, 03:25

Drazhar has Demiklaives if you want something to base the separate blades on.

That Demiklaives advice would be before the author checked the numbers. In 7th it was very rare for Demiklaives to do more damage despite the extra cost. In 8th that has changed as the wound and save mechanics have changed, so typically Demiklaives will do slightly more damage but still cost too much. The short version of why not to generally bother with them is:
Demi-klaives have 50% more attacks (6 vs 4), but cost almost 50% more. That puts them at the same points efficiency, but they have worse S and AP. In some cases, say Grotesques, with T5 and an invulnerable save, the Demiklaives are marginally ahead, but that is a terrible target to throw Incubi into.

In Narrative Play, where you don't need to worry about the points, they should be an auto-include, but they aren't really worth it in Matched Play.

_________________
From a midnight sky, there is a searing flash, a boom, a brief moment of destruction, and then it is gone.
Kabal of Lightning Strikes - Project Log
Drukhari damage output analysis
Back to top Go down
Mppqlmd
Incubi
avatar

Posts : 1844
Join date : 2017-07-05

PostSubject: Re: Incubi modelling question - Demiglaives = 2 swords?   Sun Mar 04 2018, 09:51

Demi-glaives are worth it against all the targets you don't want your incubi to face in the first place...

It's a bit like the firedragons flamer. It's not bad at all, but you don't want your Firedragons to anywhere near infantry...

_________________
My Kabal
Back to top Go down
Ikol
Wych
avatar

Posts : 563
Join date : 2017-03-20
Location : Perth

PostSubject: Re: Incubi modelling question - Demiglaives = 2 swords?   Sun Mar 04 2018, 13:52

@Mppqlmd wrote:
Demi-glaives are worth it against all the targets you don't want your incubi to face in the first place...

It's a bit like the firedragons flamer. It's not bad at all, but you don't want your Firedragons to anywhere near infantry...

@Mppqlmd wrote:
That just means they’re versatile!
~on the topic of Wyches.

_________________
This world exists because of the things we have done, forever branching to the decisions we make and twisting to what we do not.

”Woe to our enemies.  We'll tear them apart regardless.” ~Barrywise
Back to top Go down
Mppqlmd
Incubi
avatar

Posts : 1844
Join date : 2017-07-05

PostSubject: Re: Incubi modelling question - Demiglaives = 2 swords?   Sun Mar 04 2018, 14:54

Wyches are the Cult basic infantry. Having versatile basic infantry is good, because those units are the most subject to redundancy.

Incubi are highly specialized (and expensive) units. They are not meant to be adaptable, because you're rarely taking more than a few with you.

_________________
My Kabal
Back to top Go down
Ikol
Wych
avatar

Posts : 563
Join date : 2017-03-20
Location : Perth

PostSubject: Re: Incubi modelling question - Demiglaives = 2 swords?   Sun Mar 04 2018, 15:04

I believe your comment on versatility was sarcastic in regards to the optimal targets for the Wyches ranged loadiuts being in complete opposition to their (less than stellar) melee loadouts.

Incubi (and Fire Daragons) are highly specialised, however I would point out that the Wyches are highly specialised too, they just kind of suck at their specialisation.

You’ve struck the nail on the head when saying that the Demiklaivr and Dragon’s Breath Flamer are both GOOD weapons, and that they are impeded by being available only to units that want to be targetting something else entirely.

Flamer: anti-infantry, Fusion Guns: anti-tank/MC/Characters-if-you-can-hit-them.

Demiklaives: anti-GEQ else identical. Klaives: anti-TEQ.

I’ve no idea how to fix the Fire Dragons problem (save making it an anti-tank Flamer which would be bonkers). But for the Demiklaives, I’d leave the points where they are, give double blades the same profile as a Klaive but with the 2 extra attacks and make the single blade S+2, D2 to differentiate it. 8 points worth, right there.

Leaves the Klaivex as a 27 point melee monster (which they are meant to be!) goes some way towards rectifying Drazhar’s aggregious over-costing and lets the unit focus on its specialisation.

_________________
This world exists because of the things we have done, forever branching to the decisions we make and twisting to what we do not.

”Woe to our enemies.  We'll tear them apart regardless.” ~Barrywise
Back to top Go down
Mppqlmd
Incubi
avatar

Posts : 1844
Join date : 2017-07-05

PostSubject: Re: Incubi modelling question - Demiglaives = 2 swords?   Sun Mar 04 2018, 15:19

Quote :
Incubi (and Fire Daragons) are highly specialised, however I would point out that the Wyches are highly specialised too, they just kind of suck at their specialisation.

Haha, that is very true. We're not even sure what their role is (anti GEQ ? Tarpit ?), but they're damn bad at doing it.

Honestly, i don't mind much the flamer for Fire Dragons, but I see it as a defensive tool : fire dragons are expensive, and having a flamer act as assault-dissuasion is not that bad. The squad leader can always launch a grenade at tanks anyway, so it's fine.

About the Klaivex : I think the demi-glaives would be interesting if the Klaivex had some way to deal Mortal Wounds on a 6 to wound. The Klaive would be the standard anti-TEQ weapon, and the demi-glaive would be an anti-HQ weapon. But right now, it feels like a payed downgrade.

_________________
My Kabal
Back to top Go down
Ikol
Wych
avatar

Posts : 563
Join date : 2017-03-20
Location : Perth

PostSubject: Re: Incubi modelling question - Demiglaives = 2 swords?   Sun Mar 04 2018, 15:28

Or at the very least an expensive side-grade.

I agree with the DB Flamer (now I’m thinking of Fire Dragon Exarchs going Kamehameha , damn it) being a defensive rather than offensive tool, the range of their guns puts them at risk of retaliatory charges and auto-hits with mid-high strength + a solid AP function as a brilliant deterrent.

If the current +1 Damage of Killing Strike (Lethal Precision?) was turned into an additional mortal wound, that’d be cool.

Also: I want my Klaivex powers back... where’s my Murderous Assault? My chosen foe? The Klaivex used to give Incubi exploding attacks on 6’s to hit and give himself preferred enemy against whoever he was duelling.

_________________
This world exists because of the things we have done, forever branching to the decisions we make and twisting to what we do not.

”Woe to our enemies.  We'll tear them apart regardless.” ~Barrywise
Back to top Go down
Mppqlmd
Incubi
avatar

Posts : 1844
Join date : 2017-07-05

PostSubject: Re: Incubi modelling question - Demiglaives = 2 swords?   Sun Mar 04 2018, 15:48

Yep. Our captains are pretty much all so lackluster. For some units (Trueborns and scourges), they are even less interesting than the normal dude.

_________________
My Kabal
Back to top Go down
Ming the Merciless
Hellion
avatar

Posts : 26
Join date : 2017-09-30
Location : Mongo

PostSubject: Re: Incubi modelling question - Demiglaives = 2 swords?   Sun Mar 04 2018, 17:25

If wysiwyg is an issue just use Drazhar.

Demiklaives are worth it for me as two more attacks is potentially two more 6's to wound for Lethal Precision.
Back to top Go down
Mppqlmd
Incubi
avatar

Posts : 1844
Join date : 2017-07-05

PostSubject: Re: Incubi modelling question - Demiglaives = 2 swords?   Sun Mar 04 2018, 17:30

Quote :
Demiklaives are worth it for me as two more attacks is potentially two more 6's to wound for Lethal Precision.

True, it's a boost for HQ hunting. But since Lethal Precision requires the enemy to fail a saving roll, and since Demi-glaives have worse AP, it's a bit weird.

Lethal precision should be bonus mortal wounds anyway.

_________________
My Kabal
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Incubi modelling question - Demiglaives = 2 swords?   

Back to top Go down
 
Incubi modelling question - Demiglaives = 2 swords?
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
THE DARK CITY :: 

GENERAL DRUKHARI DISCUSSION

 :: Drukhari Discussion
-
Jump to: