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 Debating 40k faction alignments

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RedRegicide
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PostSubject: Debating 40k faction alignments    Wed Feb 21 2018, 18:40

I’ve been thinking about faction D&d style alignments recently, thought it’d be fun to chat about it.

I assumed there are no Good factions, and that chaotic means they are either chaos or destruction (aos term) based

True kin: Neutral Evil - we battle demons, pledge allegiance to the dark city as a whole but are rather Machiavellian

Harlies and Craftworld: Lawful Neutral - they strive to save our race

Imperium: Lawful Evil - They are Order and Facists

Chaos: Chaotic Evil - duh

Tau: Lawful Neutral - they fight for order but their “greater good” really isn’t Good

Tyranids/GSC: Neutral - just gotta eat man
Edit: Strange dark one pointed out that GSC is probably Chaotic Neutral.

Crons: I’m torn because I don’t know a lot or their lore.
Edit: Strange Dark One made a strong argument for Neutral Evil.

Orks: Chaotic Neutral - they aren’t evil per se, just natural war machines

Any thoughts?

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Last edited by RedRegicide on Wed Feb 21 2018, 20:27; edited 1 time in total
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The Strange Dark One
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PostSubject: Re: Debating 40k faction alignments    Wed Feb 21 2018, 18:59

Pretty much this. For Necrons, I'd say they are neutral evil if

I hope my Necron fluff is still up to date:
I'd argue that they are clearly evil, because the Necrontyr started a war against the Old Ones out of envy and spite. They weaponized star parasites to wage their war that was fueled by anger which created the C'tan. Their eventual conversion to Necrons is nothing redeeming, but a direct result from their own naive hatred.

They have no agenda or higher goal that would lead them to be classified as lawful. However, they are also not impulsive enough to be classified as chaotic. In their current state, they do very little harm unless their slumber is disturbed. But of course, once they wake up crap will hit the fan.

But maybe the Necrontyr and actual Necrons should be seen classified separately.

Edit: For GSC I'd argue that they are Chaotic Neutral. The premise of their existance is to prepare a planet for an invasion that will kill them too.

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PostSubject: Re: Debating 40k faction alignments    Wed Feb 21 2018, 19:43

I'd place the T'au on the "neutral good" case. They work together, consider the rest of the group more important than their own situation. They always try to negociate with other races and leave them alone if they don't pose a direct threat.
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PostSubject: Re: Debating 40k faction alignments    Wed Feb 21 2018, 20:05

@dumpeal wrote:
I'd place the T'au on the "neutral good" case. They work together, consider the rest of the group more important than their own situation. They always try to negociate with other races and leave them alone if they don't pose a direct threat.

Indeed, this is something you would think if you were a Tau citizen citizen yourself... until you snap out of the brainwashing. Tau has amazing PR and cool tech, but they are a dictatorship controlled by an elite no different to the Imperium.

Yes, you get to keep some of your cultural background, but true individualism? Forget about it.
There just is no place for a "good" race in 40k, unless they meet a tragic fate like the Squats or are already extinct (Old Ones).

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PostSubject: Re: Debating 40k faction alignments    Wed Feb 21 2018, 20:21

I might argue that the Exodites are Neutral good ... As they basically leave everything well enough alone and just want to get on with their primitive lives.
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PostSubject: Re: Debating 40k faction alignments    Wed Feb 21 2018, 20:23

I agree with your points strange dark one, cultists are naturally opposed to human authority so it makes sense.

Dumpeal, I agree that some citizens of the Tau may be Neutral good, but as a faction they demand groups join them or be eradicated. Not exactly a Good mentality IMO

Exodites could be Lawful good IMO, bc they are true to their rigorous path system. As a non playable faction it makes sense they are the only good guys haha

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PostSubject: Re: Debating 40k faction alignments    Wed Feb 21 2018, 21:19

@The Strange Dark One wrote:
@dumpeal wrote:
I'd place the T'au on the "neutral good" case. They work together, consider the rest of the group more important than their own situation. They always try to negociate with other races and leave them alone if they don't pose a direct threat.

Indeed, this is something you would think if you were a Tau citizen citizen yourself... until you snap out of the brainwashing. Tau has amazing PR and cool tech, but they are a dictatorship controlled by an elite no different to the Imperium.

Yes, you get to keep some of your cultural background, but true individualism? Forget about it.
There just is no place for a "good" race in 40k, unless they meet a tragic fate like the Squats or are already extinct (Old Ones).

If you were on a planet and you could choose which race your neighbour system is from, which one would you choose? They don't go on cruisade because someone else is from another race and only try to assimilate others during their expansion sphere. It's not "all good", but it's far better than any other race. Except maybe the lettuce-eaters exodites.
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PostSubject: Re: Debating 40k faction alignments    Wed Feb 21 2018, 22:14

@dumpeal wrote:
@The Strange Dark One wrote:
@dumpeal wrote:
I'd place the T'au on the "neutral good" case. They work together, consider the rest of the group more important than their own situation. They always try to negociate with other races and leave them alone if they don't pose a direct threat.

Indeed, this is something you would think if you were a Tau citizen citizen yourself... until you snap out of the brainwashing. Tau has amazing PR and cool tech, but they are a dictatorship controlled by an elite no different to the Imperium.

Yes, you get to keep some of your cultural background, but true individualism? Forget about it.
There just is no place for a "good" race in 40k, unless they meet a tragic fate like the Squats or are already extinct (Old Ones).

If you were on a planet and you could choose which race your neighbour system is from, which one would you choose? They don't go on cruisade because someone else is from another race and only try to assimilate others during their expansion sphere. It's not "all good", but it's far better than any other race. Except maybe the lettuce-eaters exodites.

Oh, I completely agree.
But in my book "better" than other races doesn't make them "good". It's just a somewhat brighter shade of black.

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PostSubject: Re: Debating 40k faction alignments    Wed Feb 21 2018, 23:02

Here is my take on it :

But first, let's agree on how i read the alignement system of D&D. Good/Evil means "presence or absence of empathy", and Law/Chaos means "desire/no desire for organized systems". In 40k, no race is "The good ones", but some races have empathy (at least for their own members), while some completly lack any.

Lawful evil : a heavily organized society that is fueled with personal ambitions, lack of concern for other's life, and a cynical approach of life ? Dark Eldars.

Neutral (with lawful tendency) Evil : Necrons. They are fueled with hatred and frustration for the sacrifice they made. They live to kill, and prove their superiority to the rest of the world.

Chaotic Evil : Chaos Demons, considering how the 4 gods can't work together to achieve what they could do if there was only 1.


Lawful Neutral : the Imperium. Heavily organized society that, indeed, is very xenophobic, but can show concern for the live of its own citizens (occasionally). Cruelty isn't at the core of their culture, but sacrifice is, and sacrifices are a very empathetic action, so they are clearly not evil for me.

Neutral : Tyrannids. They don't have moral standards, and are to be classified like the animals in D&D.

Chaotic Neutral : Orkz. They don't feel superior nor hate humies, they just like to beat them to death for fun.

Lawful Good : T'au. They aren't good, maybe, but they have a concern for life. They offer pacifical surrendering to their foes. They instaured multiculturalism in their society (and army, because meat-shields for the win). If you look into the 40k univers, T'au are (with orkz) the least-xenophobic faction, and that's enough for me to make them somewhat Good.

Neutral Good (with lawful tendencies): probably the Craftworlds. They are concerned with the lives and after-life of every citizen it has, they try to function as a solid micro-society to protect their children from the coming Doom... they are what 40k has closest to a NG alignement. They aren't loyal because of how isolated they are (craftworld never reunited as one big faction).


Chaotic Good : Harlequins. They live for freedom and madness, but they try to preserve the world from Chaos, which draws them towards Good. They also try to reunite the Eldar family.

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PostSubject: Re: Debating 40k faction alignments    Wed Feb 21 2018, 23:44

@Mppqlmd wrote:
Neutral Good (with lawful tendencies): probably the Craftworlds. They are concerned with the lives and after-life of every citizen it has, they try to function as a solid micro-society to protect their children from the coming Doom... they are what 40k has closest to a NG alignement. They aren't loyal because of how isolated they are (craftworld never reunited as one big faction).

Until they decide to sacrifice a planet full of humans for a handful of Eldars and shrug it off like they merely killed a bunch of ants.

But perhaps, like in most fiction, it ultimately comes down to the interpretation of the author that is writing about a faction.

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PostSubject: Re: Debating 40k faction alignments    Thu Feb 22 2018, 00:04

@Mppqlmd wrote:
Here is my take on it :

But first, let's agree on how i read the alignement system of D&D. Good/Evil means "presence or absence of empathy", and Law/Chaos means "desire/no desire for organized systems". In 40k, no race is "The good ones", but some races have empathy (at least for their own members), while some completly lack any.

Lawful evil : a heavily organized society that is fueled with personal ambitions, lack of concern for other's life, and a cynical approach of life ? Dark Eldars.

Neutral (with lawful tendency) Evil : Necrons. They are fueled with hatred and frustration for the sacrifice they made. They live to kill, and prove their superiority to the rest of the world.

Chaotic Evil : Chaos Demons, considering how the 4 gods can't work together to achieve what they could do if there was only 1.


Lawful Neutral : the Imperium. Heavily organized society that, indeed, is very xenophobic, but can show concern for the live of its own citizens (occasionally). Cruelty isn't at the core of their culture, but sacrifice is, and sacrifices are a very empathetic action, so they are clearly not evil for me.

Neutral : Tyrannids. They don't have moral standards, and are to be classified like the animals in D&D.

Chaotic Neutral : Orkz. They don't feel superior nor hate humies, they just like to beat them to death for fun.

Lawful Good : T'au. They aren't good, maybe, but they have a concern for life. They offer pacifical surrendering to their foes. They instaured multiculturalism in their society (and army, because meat-shields for the win). If you look into the 40k univers, T'au are (with orkz) the least-xenophobic faction, and that's enough for me to make them somewhat Good.

Neutral Good (with lawful tendencies): probably the Craftworlds. They are concerned with the lives and after-life of every citizen it has, they try to function as a solid micro-society to protect their children from the coming Doom... they are what 40k has closest to a NG alignement. They aren't loyal because of how isolated they are (craftworld never reunited as one big faction).


Chaotic Good : Harlequins. They live for freedom and madness, but they try to preserve the world from Chaos, which draws them towards Good. They also try to reunite the Eldar family.


I would switch the lawful good Tau and the neutral good eldar. Eldar society is very strictly organised around the paths and every ways of their life are structured, to avoid a new downfall.
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PostSubject: Re: Debating 40k faction alignments    Thu Feb 22 2018, 00:53

For the races I know about:

DE: Neutral Evil. I don't think you can really call them lawful, because that tends to involve personal moral codes, trustworthiness etc. (and, on larger scales faceless bureaucracies and the like). That doesn't seem right for DE. You could probably make an argument for both CE and NE. I'd lean towards NE, but it might come down to the individual.

Necrons: Varies, I think. Destroyers are probably CE, since they're basically Daleks now. The other characters are likely LE, with Trazyn being NE. You could make an argument for some of the lower ranking Necrons being Neutral, as they're little more than mindless automatons.

IG: Maybe Lawful Neutral? Representing their obedience on an individual basis, and the bureaucratic nature of the IG on a larger scale.

Tyranids: Lawful Evil.
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PostSubject: Re: Debating 40k faction alignments    Thu Feb 22 2018, 02:46

i genuinely don’t think there are any good races in 40k because they are all willing to let 1000 of another race die for one of theres

I can’t see us as Lawful evil, too much infihhting for that

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PostSubject: Re: Debating 40k faction alignments    Thu Feb 22 2018, 06:29

Would you consider a human evil if he killed a 1000 of muskitoes to save 10 human lives?
Why would you consider a craftworld evil because he does the same for his eldar brethren?
You might prefer to have an alternative if possible but if you cannot find it/ don't have the time for it then saving those 10 people is worth more than saving those 1000 bugs.

You are now not judging the races by how good evil they are, but by how much they consider other races their equal.

Also dark eldar have quite a strict set of rules and they are brutally enforced and rarely crossed. I would also easier clasify them as lawful over chaotic. Just because there are less rules and most of those make less sense to us does not make them chaotic. Strangely enough dark eldar despite all their madness and excess have strict castes and strict rules for when and how you cannot kill others. The fact that the rules are about when you cannot kill them instead of you cannot kill them makes them seem less like laws to us but as long as those rules are obyed and carried out it seems like they are not as choatic as we think about them?
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PostSubject: Re: Debating 40k faction alignments    Thu Feb 22 2018, 08:42

In dnd if an elf is willing to let 1000 halflings die to save another elf, I don’t think he’d be good. Good involves empathy, and self sacrifice IMO

That’s why I went neutral evil for us, because we have elements of both law and chaos, but your arguments for Lawful evil are pretty strong too

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PostSubject: Re: Debating 40k faction alignments    Thu Feb 22 2018, 11:16

@RedRegicide wrote:
In dnd if an elf is willing to let 1000 halflings die to save another elf, I don’t think he’d be good. Good involves empathy, and self sacrifice IMO

That’s why I went neutral evil for us, because we have elements of both law and chaos, but your arguments for Lawful evil are pretty strong too

True but that is because an elf is roughly equavalent to an halfling (maybe 2 halflings XD)
But good gods also let a lot of the lesser races die or even actively kill them if need be.
Killing humans in 40k is maybe just a good act?

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