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 Cheaper Reavers

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Archon_91
Wych
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Posts : 506
Join date : 2017-01-03

PostSubject: Re: Cheaper Reavers   Mon Feb 19 2018, 20:37

Except then you are double paying for stuff by pricing a unit based on the buffs it can get. Taking the dark reapers example, as you say, aurynn, a stand alone model is fine, but then you add psychic buffs, the price of which you payed for by paying for the psycher, however you ten want to increase the price of the model for the already paid for psychic powers ... Double paying for said psychic buff. Moving on the unit size ... You pay for each model in the unit ... I don't see how increasing the points of the model based on how many models you can take is a good idea ... As a counter point I ask why are guardsmen then not well above their actual price? Or Orks for that matter ... It almost sounds like you are suggesting there should be a price punishment on top of paying points for each model in the unit over the minimum number of models in the unit. As for the ynnari one ... I can't argue that, most people agree the ynnari are poorly executed and while they were heavily nerfed that doesn't quite fix that it was a very thinly veiled attempt by GW to have the Aelidari race become more "Imperium like" by effectively giving them a soup option that plays like any imperial soup army. Choose the best options from the armies and put them all together.
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aurynn
Incubi


Posts : 1626
Join date : 2013-04-23

PostSubject: Re: Cheaper Reavers   Tue Feb 20 2018, 07:30

Which is half truth. The psyker paid for a psychic power, but didn't pay for the ridiculous effect it will have on the said unit (since clearly psychic powers vary in effectiveness depending on target), that can be quite big too, so he can stack buffs. If you add the points to the Reapers, they are paying just for that extra oomph they will get.

And yes, I do think there should be price punishment for taking more than 5 Reapers for example. People cry for having psykers punished on smitespam by adding +1 to each subsequent cast cost. Its exactly the same logic. You spam? Pay more!
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Pain Engine
Hellion


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Join date : 2017-09-30
Location : Stockholm

PostSubject: Re: Cheaper Reavers   Tue Feb 20 2018, 08:47

The answer to spam isn't making it cost more, you should never punish players for using what is good and forcing them into using subpar alternatives.
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aurynn
Incubi


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PostSubject: Re: Cheaper Reavers   Tue Feb 20 2018, 08:48

No... the point is not to have an unit that is superior and can be exploited. :-D
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Pain Engine
Hellion


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PostSubject: Re: Cheaper Reavers   Tue Feb 20 2018, 08:52

Sure, but that's not an easy task, and not something that forcing players to pay for repetitive listbuilding solves.
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|Meavar
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: Cheaper Reavers   Tue Feb 20 2018, 09:23

The idea of increasing cost of multiples is threefold.
A) you are "forced to take different units, thus chosing targets actually matters
B) if a unit is slightly undercosted you cannot spam it to oblivion. Pask is undercosted, but since you can have a max of 1 in the army it will be an advantage but will not instantly win you the game.
C) Some things reach a thresshold if spammed that they become much more effective (in the case of an army of knights you suddenly negate all shooting from normal guns, this has partially been solved with the everything can wound everything idea already, but it still holds true, why was brimstone spam so good, since they were cheap and you had to waste all your high priced shooting also at them. Since you could not target anything else. And they could harm pretty much everything.

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aurynn
Incubi


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PostSubject: Re: Cheaper Reavers   Tue Feb 20 2018, 10:50

@Pain Engine wrote:
Sure, but that's not an easy task, and not something that forcing players to pay for repetitive listbuilding solves.
Yes and no. I believe that in 30K there was something like that. Basic unit costed X per model, but all further additions costed X+Y. Was fair...
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Pain Engine
Hellion


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PostSubject: Re: Cheaper Reavers   Tue Feb 20 2018, 12:44

@aurynn wrote:
@Pain Engine wrote:
Sure, but that's not an easy task, and not something that forcing players to pay for repetitive listbuilding solves.
Yes and no. I believe that in 30K there was something like that. Basic unit costed X per model, but all further additions costed X+Y. Was fair...

Lol no, it was the opposite. 10 tacs cost 150, then each tac after that cost an extra 10 points.
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aurynn
Incubi


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PostSubject: Re: Cheaper Reavers   Tue Feb 20 2018, 16:06

:-D Was it really? :-D I stand corrected. Nevertheless, it'd work. :-)
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