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 Denying Deep Strike

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Kantalla
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PostSubject: Denying Deep Strike   Fri Feb 16 2018, 02:20

A trend with most Codex armies lately is the ability to Webway Strike or similar where they can bring in 1 or 2 large short ranged shooting (or melee) units. Or they may be able to deep strike these units in directly without a stratagem.

To counter deep striking units, the basic principle is to limit the area where deep strikers can land, and leave only cheap expendable units in range of them when they land. Deep striking units are usually expensive and not particularly resilient, so they rely on taking out something important when they land.

Dealing with this is something Drukhari can do reasonably well, in part because we have plenty of expendable units that we can afford to lose much more easily than the deep striking units. Most Drukhari lists have multiple squads of 5 Kabalite Warriors in a Venom, for example. In addition, if the enemy is able to pile in and consolidate into a vehicle, they can move away with Fly and still fire.

Here are some set ups for the standard mission deployments showing how easy is it to prevent enemy deep strike into your key units.

1) Spearhead (Hammer and Anvil is similar)

With 3 × 5 Kabalite Warriors and 3 vehicles there is no space in the deployment zone that is not within 9" of one of the Drukhari units. The dice outside the deployment zone show the extent of the area where deep strike units cannot land, and the dice inside the zone show the distance where a unit with a 12" charge could reach.

You can safely deploy behind those dice without being in range of a charge from a deep strike (unless the enemy has some form of extra movement, such as Craftworld Eldar with the Quicken power.

I think it is interesting how few units are required to completely deny deep strike within your zone, and offer only an expendable 5 man Kabalite Warrior unit as a viable target for assault.

If you get first turn and can move forward then a much larger part of the table can be cut off.

2) Dawn of War (Front-Line Assault is similar)

Here you need four units of Kabalites and you are very cramped for space if you avoid being within 12" of the enemy. Technically you need four vehicles to prevent any deep strike behind your sacrificial line, but it would be hard to build an army that doesn't fill up all the space.

3) Search and Destroy

Again only three units are required to practically keep all deep strikers out of your deployment zone. You might want four units in case you get first turn and can move forward.

4) Vanguard Strike

Three units is enough here, although again you might want four units in case you get first turn and want to control more of the table.

I would recommend having at least four units of 5 Kabalites in a Venom in your list. That way if you face an army with a critical element being short ranged deep strike units then you can deploy on foot and deny the deep strikers any useful targets, and still be useful mounted in the Venoms if you aren't facing that type of threat.

Set up the Venoms just behind the Kabalite units so they are out of charge range, but are close enough to embark on if there is no longer a deep strike threat to worry about.

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PostSubject: Re: Denying Deep Strike   Fri Feb 16 2018, 07:17

Nicely done.
My main issue rarely is the first turn, where deep strike is an issue.

Also how do you handle things like nurglins (which can deploy 9" of your units during deployment). For us they are not the biggest problem since we can usually fly away and still shoot, but with other armies I really struggle against them and even for us they kill/ disrupt my screen in turn 1 which means in turn 2 his hart hitting deep strike units come in.
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PostSubject: Re: Denying Deep Strike   Fri Feb 16 2018, 08:38

I really like this and it is so visual. Thanks for taking the time to put it together
Other units I have used for screening are rwjf's against non flying close combat deepstrike units, as they create an unchargable wall. And if you use two, you can have your wall for two turns as they swap positions.

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Kantalla
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PostSubject: Re: Denying Deep Strike   Fri Feb 16 2018, 10:43

|Meaver:
For Nurglings, if they get first turn they are like a unit that got Quicken or Warptime after arriving by deep strike. You have two options to avoid them moving and charging units behind your screen:
1) Don't have any gaps in the screen they can move through (requires a lot more models and may not be practical)
2) Deploy anything without Fly more than 17" back from where the Nurglings could be deployed (i.e. more than 8" back from the edge of your deployment zone.

On the Dawn of War layout there is really limited space back 8" from your deployment edge, so you could have a dense screen in front of the key units to protect and thinner elsewhere.

In terms of the enemy holding back deep strikers to weaken the screen, they need to balance playing with less points on the table against the extra damage they can do once the screen is removed. Against Drukhari that also means Power from Pain ramps up a bit more too. A Drukhari player might well be able to drop another expendable unit in place where a screening unit is removed, but more elite armies could struggle.

LordSplata - using Flyers can be good, but is also situational. If your opponent can wait you out they might not even need to kill the screen, and they might have deep strikers with Fly, but if it works then you can deny space without even risking the screening unit.

I had a very satisfying moment in a tournament last year where I used my Voidraven on the edge of the screen to bait a unit of jump pack Veterans to try to land and try assault it. They made the charge but didn't kill it and the Void Mine killed the whole unit (with one command point reroll).

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PostSubject: Re: Denying Deep Strike   Sun Feb 18 2018, 21:54

Nice write up.

Nurglings were changed in the codex. They now have to deploy 9" away from enemy units and 9" away from your opponents deployment zone ( the new part of the rule). So they are less annoying than they used to be.

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PostSubject: Re: Denying Deep Strike   Sun Feb 18 2018, 22:08

Interesting little change. I wasn't aware they didn't have the deployment zone limitation in the Index.

I could have written them up a bit more simply - Nurglings threat range is 5" move + 2-12" charge, so maximum is 17". As they must be more than 9" outside the zone edge, your key units are safe if they are 8" or more inside the zone edge.

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PostSubject: Re: Denying Deep Strike   Mon Feb 19 2018, 06:19

@Kantalla wrote:
Interesting little change. I wasn't aware they didn't have the deployment zone limitation in the Index.

I could have written them up a bit more simply - Nurglings threat range is 5" move + 2-12" charge, so maximum is 17". As they must be more than 9" outside the zone edge, your key units are safe if they are 8" or more inside the zone edge.

Jeah but with a 12 inch deployment zone and the size of vehicles etc that pretty much only leaves the option of putting raiders/ravagers at the back line facing sideways.
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PostSubject: Re: Denying Deep Strike   Mon Feb 19 2018, 10:05

Depends on the mission of course.

If you have the Dawn of War, or a similar setup, then you are really limited for space.

You could deploy a denser screen with gaps too small to fit a Nurgling base through, but if they can shoot your screen that might not be sufficient. With Drukhari, I think you would just accept getting Raiders and Ravagers contacted by Nurglings, as you can move away, and perhaps reserve that back 4" of your zone for anything that doesn't have Fly - the Reavers and Talos that the Codex is going to fix for example!

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PostSubject: Re: Denying Deep Strike   Thu Mar 08 2018, 00:14

Awesome thread. Great ppictures.
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PostSubject: Re: Denying Deep Strike   Thu Mar 08 2018, 02:24

Thanks for doing this!

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PostSubject: Re: Denying Deep Strike   Thu Mar 08 2018, 04:17

Hoh. Very nice! further validates my argument for Kabalites + Venoms being mainstays in our army. Twisted Evil

Would it make sense at all to, if by chance you are using these strategies and have a unit or two of Wyches/Wracks, to keep them near the front lines, to tie up or counter charge any deepstrikers? I'd probably have them in those venoms for their own safety and for that extra 3" disembark. Also, you could just move them to block the way of the enemy unit if they're especially good at CC. I feel like this would be fairly effective against Genestealers.

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PostSubject: Re: Denying Deep Strike   Thu Mar 08 2018, 11:09

@Barrywise wrote:
Hoh. Very nice! further validates my argument for Kabalites + Venoms being mainstays in our army. Twisted Evil

Would it make sense at all to, if by chance you are using these strategies and have a unit or two of Wyches/Wracks, to keep them near the front lines, to tie up or counter charge any deepstrikers? I'd probably have them in those venoms for their own safety and for that extra 3" disembark. Also, you could just move them to block the way of the enemy unit if they're especially good at CC. I feel like this would be fairly effective against Genestealers.

Bombs are often max size assault units. Whatever they touch dies, I’d try and keep the speed bump cheap

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PostSubject: Re: Denying Deep Strike   Thu Mar 08 2018, 14:26

If you're going to use Wyches for a counter-charge, don't send them against something that can throw weight of dice. So Khorne Beserkers, Genestealers, really any infantry, is a no-go. Use Wyches to charge tanks, monster nids, big scary demons, that kinda thing.

Also, you can do this same tactic with the Kabs still inside Venoms. In most maps you can lock down your deployment zone with 4 Venoms. Useful if you run Blasters as you don't need to throw that away. But if your opponent doesn't have artillery, you're probably safe conga-lining to take up more space.

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PostSubject: Re: Denying Deep Strike   Thu Mar 08 2018, 15:01

Very handy threat. All I have to add is that I'd say razorwing flocks can make pretty excellent screens as well, I take 5 minimum size flocks in my list which gives me enough to shield my side of the board turn one, plus they can move further than kabalites in my first turn to get more area denial. Plus it's funny how much they bother my opponents considering how weak they are.

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PostSubject: Re: Denying Deep Strike   Fri Mar 09 2018, 02:43

@Lord Asvaldir Razorwing Flocks look like a solid unit for denying deep strike. I don't own any, so haven't playtested using them instead. Do you get much value from them if your opponent isn't bringing any meaningful deep strike?

My reasoning for recommending Kabalites is they are cheap (even cheaper than a Razorwing Flocks unit), cover a large part of the board if set up at unit coherency, and if your opponent isn't bringing deep strike units, they can just jump in their Venoms and head up the board.

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PostSubject: Re: Denying Deep Strike   Fri Mar 09 2018, 03:31

As tempting as it might be to see Razorwing Flocks and use them for screens, that's really about all they can do. As an army still using the Index, we really can't afford that kind of inefficiency. Kabs + Venoms give you the same area denial plus some meaningful offensive output too.

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PostSubject: Re: Denying Deep Strike   Fri Mar 09 2018, 22:16

I mean that's a good point but I've never regretted bringing razorwing flocks. Their speed let's them be a great chaff unit even if I don't have to face any deep strikers. I've had them tie up units like predators and devestators backfield or block charges from getting to key units. Plus the number of wounds they have means they actually take a decent amount of firepower despite being t2. Even had a courier mission game where it was a razorwinf flock that struck the last wound to the courier. I'd definitely recommend taking them.

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PostSubject: Re: Denying Deep Strike   Mon Mar 12 2018, 03:20

Nice topic.  I did something similar with fighters in my earlier 8th Ed. ITC games:
http://lkhero.blogspot.com/2017/07/ynnari-deploying-against-first-turn.html

..except I used flyers Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Denying Deep Strike   Mon Mar 12 2018, 05:38

I think your blog post got linked here last year, and it is a really nice representation to the nuclear option to denying first turn deep strike. I remember having a little laugh and eye roll at the image the first time I saw it.

Tactically I don't like that flyer defence, because the deep strikers can delay until turn 2 when the flyers have had to move away.

At the start of 8th it felt wrong to need that type of strategy to deal with the strange new rules. Now the deep strike bubble wrap just seems a normal part of the game to me. It's also interesting that in the past it was difficult to keep drop pods away from key units, whereas now it is easy to deny them your whole deployment zone.

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