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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently... we're next.   Fri Jan 26 2018, 19:56

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I'm cautiously optimistic....I don't think I've been as scarred as most the folks here from our treatment, but then I was a Bretonnian player in 8th ed Fantasy and waited for the book that never came before they ended the game. The fact that we're getting a book and they didn't "Endtimes" 40k tells me this will be better than my previous experience.

Oh boy, I can relate to that.

Yep. 8th edition may not be perfect, but at least it's not EndTimes.

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PostSubject: Re: Apparently... we're next.   Fri Jan 26 2018, 20:05

So many emotions for an Archon to feed on in this thread!

I can’t wait to see what’s in store for us and pleasantly surprised that the codex will be out before he London GT cut off at the end of April.

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently... we're next.   Fri Jan 26 2018, 20:18

If our wargear and some units points are more balanced i'll be happy.

Honestly for me if these get cheaper (some by 1/2 points) i'll play DE heavily again and not Harlequins

Blasters, Shredder, Heat Lances, Liquidfire Guns, Ossefactor
Hellions, Reavers, All Coven
All HQ's other than Archon and Haemonculus
Bonus: Give us back Vehicle upgrades NO OTHER ARMY LOST THEIRS WTF GW!

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PostSubject: Re: Apparently... we're next.   Fri Jan 26 2018, 20:26

They've had three tries to make shredders something other than a joke. Here's hoping that fourth times a charm! Really, I'm looking forward to seeing our vehicle wargear

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently... we're next.   Fri Jan 26 2018, 20:31

I did the math many times (against IG, against Orks, against Marines and SM Biker) on turn 1 max distance then turn 2 at 1/2 distance. Did the same for Storm Bolters.... Storm Bolters are better as the game go on longer and they are 2pts.

Now against T5 and T6 units Shredders are better. but we have Blasters and Lances for those units.

Funny enough tho, equal points SB are 3x better and actually something 10% better than Melta Guns (in equal points with current points).

B.c you get 4 SB for 1 Shredder, my math with all equal amount of weapons.... Did a little bit of math with equal points.. Shredders are trash.

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Crazy_Ivan
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently... we're next.   Fri Jan 26 2018, 20:33

I would love to see the return of aethersails, used to love zooming across the table turn one right up to the enemy.
2 boats of grots doing so really used to keep fire off the rest of my army, they were pretty good at surviving too!


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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently... we're next.   Fri Jan 26 2018, 20:46

Example 80pts of SB's

40 SB's
Max range (80 shots)
IG:  T3, 5+ = 23.70
SM: T4, 3+ = 8.89

Rapid Range (160 shots)
IG:  T3, 5+ = 47.41
SM: T4, 3+ = 17.78

80pts of Shredders
10 Shredders
Max or 1/2 range doesnt matter (10D3)
IG:  T3, 5+ = 7.42
SM: T4, 3+ = 2.96

If you think 40 SB's is a lot, well.. my SoB can have 70 with Open top Rhinos (the Rhinos have 2 each thats where 20 of those are coming from), and thats with 9 Vehicles, 2 good HQ's and 11 Units.

DE can do the same thing with Trueborn and Venoms, and it something i would like to try.

But looking at the points you can see how bad Shredders really are, especially at 1/2 range. My SOB army was Laughing at the IG Conscripts spam, but i was also taking like 20 HB's in open top Rhinos crap back killing 20 of them a turn. I could kill 70 Conscripts a turn if i went 1st. Celestine moves 24" in 1 turnand charges, when you play her correctly you have to actually kill her 3-4x....

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PostSubject: Re: Apparently... we're next.   Fri Jan 26 2018, 20:53

IDK if you guys remember, but DE use to drop actual WWP on the table (small blast sizes).

They were counted as impassible terrain, means unless you had Jump you couldnt go over them. For 85pts you could have you HQ with a WWP, do that 3x (Haemonculus could do 3 per 1 HQ), put those 3 in 1 Venom (320pts total) rush up and place a wall so your Rhinos/Landraider couldnt move for like 3 turns (had to go around, you placed them 1.99" apart b.c you couldnt be within 1" of them either, this way Infantry couldnt walk between them) And then DE had RWJ's and Venoms laugh at you and just shot you for 3 turns.

Sorry just remembering old memories

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PostSubject: Re: Apparently... we're next.   Fri Jan 26 2018, 20:56

How could we forget? Placeable webway portals were amazing! It's really disappointing how they have been scaled down since then.
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently... we're next.   Fri Jan 26 2018, 22:31

I've still got mine!!! I have two of them
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently... we're next.   Fri Jan 26 2018, 22:39

I'm excited we are getting our Codex. Empirical evidence suggests there is a high probability that our codex will be good (i.e. make us competitive) but of course, correlation doesn't imply causation, and Dark Eldar is about unique a 'finesse' army as you can find in 40k, and that opens up a lot of opportunity to do make us versatile or to make us a complete flop.

I do not think our codex being released later in the process would provide us any benefit. If it is going to suck, let it suck and lets get it over with, but at least we will finally see what GW thinks of us in 8th edition.

The term 'cautiously optimistic' has been used...I agree...I think we simply wait and see!

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently... we're next.   Fri Jan 26 2018, 23:28

People at LVO asked about Vect, its 100% confirm no Vect in the codex from (He said, she Said people).

Cant prove if they are telling the truth, but it doesnt give me hope for Vect in the codex.

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PostSubject: Re: Apparently... we're next.   Fri Jan 26 2018, 23:29

@amishprn86 wrote:
People at LVO asked about Vect, its 100% confirm no Vect in the codex.

I think they have missed a real trick to give us a Lord of war, we can only hope they will do in the future.
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FuelDrop
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently... we're next.   Fri Jan 26 2018, 23:42

So, serious question: Do you guys think we'll get a Lord of War option?
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently... we're next.   Fri Jan 26 2018, 23:42

No

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PostSubject: Re: Apparently... we're next.   Fri Jan 26 2018, 23:48

No not at the moment, I'm ever the optimist that we will at some point.
I guess a real driving factor would be sales if there was a huge demand for Drukari they would invest in them, they don't seem to get that if they don't push the lines they don't sell which is why they keep pushing all the imperium stuff.
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently... we're next.   Sat Jan 27 2018, 00:23

I'm not sure why there's so much pessemism about our upcoming codex. Just look at the last few codexes: AM, Eldar, Nids, BA, DA all got solid codexes with fairly balanced pts costs and rules. You just can't expect too much from the codex. It's not going to return all those 5th edition goodies we use to have, bring back our old favorite special characters or have new models, but we can expect it to be a reasonably balanced codex. We'll get stratagems and relics along with new pts costs that should put us at more equal footing with other codexes. My only concern is how they manage kabals/cults/covens but we'll see how that turns out.

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PostSubject: Re: Apparently... we're next.   Sat Jan 27 2018, 00:30

I was counting on several months before being gutted by how bad our Codex was.

Soon any reason for hope will be removed along with Trueborn, Bloodbrides and the ability to take Kabal/Coven/Cult in the same detachment.

Yes I'm still bitter about the 7th edition Codex.

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PostSubject: Re: Apparently... we're next.   Sat Jan 27 2018, 00:39

@Lord Asvaldir wrote:
I'm not sure why there's so much pessemism about our upcoming codex. Just look at the last few codexes: AM,  Eldar,  Nids,  BA,  DA all got solid codexes with fairly balanced pts costs and rules. You just can't expect too much from the codex. It's not going to return all those 5th edition goodies we use to have,  bring back our old favorite special characters or have new models,  but we can expect it to be a reasonably balanced codex. We'll get stratagems and relics along with new pts costs that should put us at more equal footing with other codexes. My only concern is how they manage kabals/cults/covens but we'll see how that turns out.

The reason for pessimism is that in recent years our codexes tend to be an afterthought, including unneeded nerfs and making only a few units viable. The lack of new cover art does not help us get stoked for a codex with a bunch of effort put into it, either.
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently... we're next.   Sat Jan 27 2018, 00:44

Right I get that, but you have to look at what's been happening in 8th. Things have changed, the old pattern of codex releases just isn't the same. We can very reliably look at the pattern of codex releases over the past couple months and see that it's likely we'll get a reasonably balanced codex. Could GW completely muck it up? Sure but again looking at the last several releases it seems unlikely.

And about the cover art-almost NO codexes have got new cover art. Off the top of my head the only one I can think of is space marines, so I really expected nothing less.

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PostSubject: Re: Apparently... we're next.   Sat Jan 27 2018, 00:55

@FuelDrop wrote:
@Lord Asvaldir wrote:
I'm not sure why there's so much pessemism about our upcoming codex. Just look at the last few codexes: AM,  Eldar,  Nids,  BA,  DA all got solid codexes with fairly balanced pts costs and rules. You just can't expect too much from the codex. It's not going to return all those 5th edition goodies we use to have,  bring back our old favorite special characters or have new models,  but we can expect it to be a reasonably balanced codex. We'll get stratagems and relics along with new pts costs that should put us at more equal footing with other codexes. My only concern is how they manage kabals/cults/covens but we'll see how that turns out.

The reason for pessimism is that in recent years our codexes tend to be an afterthought, including unneeded nerfs and making only a few units viable. The lack of new cover art does not help us get stoked for a codex with a bunch of effort put into it, either.

The last Codex we received was in 2014, right at the peak of GW being (let's be honest) completely terrible. They've improved considerably as a company since then and I don't think we need to be overly pessimistic about what our new Codex is going to be like.
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently... we're next.   Sat Jan 27 2018, 01:02

Count me on the optimistic wagon. No Vect but we could get plastic Grots and maybe some beasts, one can hope!
Guess stratagems, relics and such will compensate for the lack of new minis and characters...

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PostSubject: Re: Apparently... we're next.   Sat Jan 27 2018, 01:06

I just hope the stupid -1 to hit on the Succubus's glaive goes away so we can use her warlord trait properly.
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently... we're next.   Sat Jan 27 2018, 01:11

Well to be honest i will be happy with Index kabal lvl codex, if just Wych cult and Coven gets on pair with Index Kabal. And yea... i rather have versitility over raw power...
I see the outlines in the Index for some very fun lists, but atm couse of some of the point costs, they arent really worth it.

Index Kabal i think is pretty decent in how they play, and apart from point reductions, to make them in line with rest of the codexs, i wouldnt really tought them, as i think for most parts they are fine.

Index Wych cult, had they been much cheaper and with webway, i could see 2 groups of 20 wyches jump out of the webway tarpitting everyhting for a few rounds, with reavers, being able to take speciel weapons on all bikes, striking tanks, while hellions taking care of Elite troops, and beast being GEQ killers.
Ofc if they actually made wych cult special weapons have specific roles, BB suddenly would be a super interesting unit.

Coven... I really cant see what their idea for them are atm...

Hopefully we will get a codex actually forfill the outlines the index set, and while it doesnt look like we actually will get any special chars (an named archon would have been nice), there is imo plenty of things in the index that makes me think the codex will at least be decent.
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently... we're next.   Sat Jan 27 2018, 01:34

Coven is the "nurgle" or "wraith" of DE.

What was GW thinking? They sold well in 7th so dont make them good, this way they can sell more Hellions, Wyches, etc...

I mean i won a local ITC tournament with CTC and 2 Grotesquries, then the rest of my army was Reavers lol (Like 24? of them or something stupid) and 2 Raiders (just for blocking)

Reavers start on table out of LoS in terrain, CTC with 1 Cronos as well. DS 18 Grots, move up the CTC and Reavers. I went against a Gladdius for the final game, My Reavers killed something like 30 SM all game, my CTC had HWB and was popping Tanks all game, with Grots taking all the wounds (b.c they are large foot print and can hold objectives or charge the Free Rhinos).

That was my last game with DE, then i went full Corsairs b.c they were much more fun (and easier to win).

But yeah, Reavers, Talos/Cronos and Reavers mad DE playable in 7th, so ofc those will be bad in 8th index.

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