HomeDark Eldar WikiDark Eldar ResourcesNull CityFAQUsergroupsRegisterLog in

Share | 
 

 Should our elites be extra elite...

Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1, 2
AuthorMessage
amishprn86
Dracon
avatar

Posts : 3255
Join date : 2014-10-04
Location : Ohio

PostSubject: Re: Should our elites be extra elite...   Tue Jan 23 2018, 21:34

Bloodbrides needs to be like trueborn and able to use a special piece of gear on each model (or up to 5) like it used to be able to.

_________________
New to Blogging, just starting https://maddpaint.blogspot.com/

Harlequins 3k+
Dark Eldar 10k+
Tyranids 10k+
SOB 3k+
Painted 4k points
Back to top Go down
dumpeal
Wych
avatar

Posts : 908
Join date : 2015-02-13
Location : Québec

PostSubject: Re: Should our elites be extra elite...   Tue Jan 23 2018, 21:45

@amishprn86 wrote:
Bloodbrides needs to be like trueborn and able to use a special piece of gear on each model (or up to 5) like it used to be able to.

I don't think the wyches special weapons are good enough to make bloodbrides worthy even if each could take 1.

I mean, the most useful one only reroll failed wounds. If every WYCHES could reroll wounds, MAYBE I would consider them.... Maybe. But bloodbrides? no way.
Back to top Go down
amishprn86
Dracon
avatar

Posts : 3255
Join date : 2014-10-04
Location : Ohio

PostSubject: Re: Should our elites be extra elite...   Tue Jan 23 2018, 22:38

@dumpeal wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
Bloodbrides needs to be like trueborn and able to use a special piece of gear on each model (or up to 5) like it used to be able to.

I don't think the wyches special weapons are good enough to make bloodbrides worthy even if each could take 1.

I mean, the most useful one only reroll failed wounds. If every WYCHES could reroll wounds, MAYBE I would consider them.... Maybe. But bloodbrides? no way.

If they are cheaper (Wyches 7pts, brdies 9pts) then you would be able to take much more of them. Also i've said it 100x but will again, in my world wyches/brides would have always -1ap, speical weapons will be -2ap.

_________________
New to Blogging, just starting https://maddpaint.blogspot.com/

Harlequins 3k+
Dark Eldar 10k+
Tyranids 10k+
SOB 3k+
Painted 4k points
Back to top Go down
LordSplata
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 281
Join date : 2017-06-14
Location : Sydney

PostSubject: Re: Should our elites be extra elite...   Thu Jan 25 2018, 08:21

I might take those, but I don't really want a 7point unit that needs a transport to get to its target as this makes the transport tax quite high. I'd prefer a slightly more expensive unit that deals more damage or does their job better than a cheaper unit. And then an elite version of it that is better again.

On the blood brides, if they are a straight +1attack wych unit then they become too easy to compare and either they or wyches become useless units in the codex because one is the obvious superior choice. Much like splinter rifles vs splinter cannons atm.
Instead they should offer something different. Additional weapons could do that. Complete no escape (like so many other units) might as well. A better invul save, or a shooting invul save. These would all create great headaches and arguments of which someone should take. Which a balanced codex should be about
Back to top Go down
Sarkesian
Kabalite Warrior
avatar

Posts : 222
Join date : 2016-01-12
Location : Utah

PostSubject: Re: Should our elites be extra elite...   Thu Jan 25 2018, 17:42

Well, they could always just remove blood brides from the codex. Nobody uses them. Keep wyches as core, then you'd have fast attack and flyers. Covens would have core and elites and heavy support. Kabal would be what it is now. Why should they worry about fixing something no one will use anyways, and just work on better synergy between the 3 groups?

Salty, I know, but it could be a realistic scenario.
Back to top Go down
amishprn86
Dracon
avatar

Posts : 3255
Join date : 2014-10-04
Location : Ohio

PostSubject: Re: Should our elites be extra elite...   Thu Jan 25 2018, 17:44

The point of Bloodbrides are they are our Veteran squads of Wyches, you know the squads that literally EVERY codex has that ALL are made with the same fashion as WEAPONS experts that ALL can pick SPECIAL WEAPONS.

Not mad or anything.... Mad Evil or Very Mad Rolling Eyes

_________________
New to Blogging, just starting https://maddpaint.blogspot.com/

Harlequins 3k+
Dark Eldar 10k+
Tyranids 10k+
SOB 3k+
Painted 4k points
Back to top Go down
Sarkesian
Kabalite Warrior
avatar

Posts : 222
Join date : 2016-01-12
Location : Utah

PostSubject: Re: Should our elites be extra elite...   Thu Jan 25 2018, 18:11

Oh I totally understand where you are coming from. But for GW, they don't have different models from normal wyches, and the rules may end up being difficult for them to implement and balance properly. So to them, removing them as an option would be no different as having them in the codex and no one using them. Saves money on ink.
Back to top Go down
Mppqlmd
Incubi
avatar

Posts : 1844
Join date : 2017-07-05

PostSubject: Re: Should our elites be extra elite...   Thu Jan 25 2018, 19:45

@Sarkesian wrote:
But for GW, they don't have different models from normal wyches, and the rules may end up being difficult for them to implement and balance properly.

I'd almost feel sorry for them... but i don't. It's their job, and they receive enough money to be expected to do it right Wink

_________________
My Kabal
Back to top Go down
Sarkesian
Kabalite Warrior
avatar

Posts : 222
Join date : 2016-01-12
Location : Utah

PostSubject: Re: Should our elites be extra elite...   Thu Jan 25 2018, 20:24

Completely agree with you. They should be able to do it. But I'm preparing myself for them to be removed. Lord knows it wouldn't be the first time something was removed.
Back to top Go down
FuelDrop
Hekatrix
avatar

Posts : 1392
Join date : 2015-06-21

PostSubject: Re: Should our elites be extra elite...   Fri Jan 26 2018, 04:02

Question: would someone run the numbers and work out the efficiency difference between equal points Wyches and Bloodbrides with the same drugs?
Back to top Go down
Kantalla
Wych
avatar

Posts : 859
Join date : 2015-12-21

PostSubject: Re: Should our elites be extra elite...   Fri Jan 26 2018, 04:50

Check the link in my signature. I had assumed +1A for both, even though the Wyches don't have the Drugs listed in their unit titles.

Spoiler: They are actually very similar in damage efficiency.

_________________
From a midnight sky, there is a searing flash, a boom, a brief moment of destruction, and then it is gone.
Kabal of Lightning Strikes - Project Log
Drukhari damage output analysis
Back to top Go down
FuelDrop
Hekatrix
avatar

Posts : 1392
Join date : 2015-06-21

PostSubject: Re: Should our elites be extra elite...   Fri Jan 26 2018, 05:01

On tablet so cannot see signature, but how are they for comparative survivability?
Back to top Go down
Kantalla
Wych
avatar

Posts : 859
Join date : 2015-12-21

PostSubject: Re: Should our elites be extra elite...   Fri Jan 26 2018, 06:08

Defensively they are identical, but Bloodbrides are more expensive, so a clear win for the vanilla Wyches.

With similar points efficiency offensively, and Bloodbrides less resilient, Wyches are the better choice right now. Add in objective secured for Troops and there really is little reason to take Bloodbrides.

That analysis was based on including a transport tax as well, so Bloodbrides might have a slight edge if you were considering equivalent webway arrival units.

_________________
From a midnight sky, there is a searing flash, a boom, a brief moment of destruction, and then it is gone.
Kabal of Lightning Strikes - Project Log
Drukhari damage output analysis
Back to top Go down
FuelDrop
Hekatrix
avatar

Posts : 1392
Join date : 2015-06-21

PostSubject: Re: Should our elites be extra elite...   Fri Jan 26 2018, 07:44

Yeah, when it becomes a matter of "Equal points of an elite and troops choice have the same offense but the troops have more bodies so are more durable..."

Bloodbrides need to get a reason to exist, and it shouldn't be "A 50% increase in points cost so you can get more mediocre and overpriced weapons." (remember my chaos friend LAUGHED at me when I told him the stats on the Hydra gauntlet.)
Back to top Go down
Kantalla
Wych
avatar

Posts : 859
Join date : 2015-12-21

PostSubject: Re: Should our elites be extra elite...   Fri Jan 26 2018, 10:12

I don't really see a reason for Bloodbrides to exist at all right now.

Perhaps they could be like Trueborn, where you can take many more special weapons, and maybe the weapons will be good in the Codex. Perhaps they will disappear from the Codex altogether. I hope they can find a viable niche for Bloodbrides, but not really expecting it.

_________________
From a midnight sky, there is a searing flash, a boom, a brief moment of destruction, and then it is gone.
Kabal of Lightning Strikes - Project Log
Drukhari damage output analysis
Back to top Go down
FuelDrop
Hekatrix
avatar

Posts : 1392
Join date : 2015-06-21

PostSubject: Re: Should our elites be extra elite...   Fri Jan 26 2018, 10:45

Honestly, Trueborn are a problem too. they pay +50% for an extra attack they don't use and extra special weapon access. Which would be fine except that Havocs are the same price tag as Chaos Marines while also having comparable weapons per squad, a larger selection of weapons, and an option to make the Sargent shooty.

So we are really paying through the nose for +1 S3 attack on a squad with no melee options. And we
pay it because we need those weapons, but as Havocs show weapon access in and of itself need not cost points.

I think that making bloodbrides character hunters on par with harlequins would not be out of the question, frankly. Make them badass.
Back to top Go down
The Strange Dark One
Wych
avatar

Posts : 623
Join date : 2014-08-22
Location : Private subrealm of the Eldritch Skies Kabal.

PostSubject: Re: Should our elites be extra elite...   Fri Jan 26 2018, 12:08

It was my impression that Trueborn should be the equivalent to Fire Dragons. The extra cost per model is insignificant if you consider the transport tax and weapon cost.

I wouldn't even mind if a Trueborn that was equivalent to a Fire Dragon would be more expensive, if we got the possibility to customize the Trueborn to a greater extent in return.

Just imagine a Trueborn squad with S7 Heat Lances, Ghostplate Armor, Haywire Grenades for roughly the price of a Fire Dragon. Perhaps a nice rule that gives re-rolls of 1 against some targets (like the Assured Destruction rule). And now imagine letting them shoot out of a Venom/Raider. Kaboom.

Or, equip them with Haywire Blasters if they finally become worth their points in the codex.

_________________
Discontinued: Dark Eldar 7th Codex Redux
A pragmatic custom codex for pragmatic realspace raiders.
Back to top Go down
FuelDrop
Hekatrix
avatar

Posts : 1392
Join date : 2015-06-21

PostSubject: Re: Should our elites be extra elite...   Fri Jan 26 2018, 12:19

@The Strange Dark One wrote:
It was my impression that Trueborn should be the equivalent to Fire Dragons. The extra cost per model is insignificant if you consider the transport tax and weapon cost.

I wouldn't even mind if a Trueborn that was equivalent to a Fire Dragon would be more expensive, if we got the possibility to customize the Trueborn to a greater extent in return.

Just imagine a Trueborn squad with S7 Heat Lances, Ghostplate Armor, Haywire Grenades for roughly the price of a Fire Dragon. Perhaps a nice rule that gives re-rolls of 1 against some targets (like the Assured Destruction rule). And now imagine letting them shoot out of a Venom/Raider. Kaboom.

Or, equip them with Haywire Blasters if they finally become worth their points in the codex.

I can get behind this.

I say give Trueborn Ghostplate stock. I have no idea why GW is so scared of that stuff.

Wooo! Our Archons can upgrade to 4+6++, where most HQ's come with at least 5++ stock and many have 3+4++.
Back to top Go down
Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
avatar

Posts : 7226
Join date : 2012-04-26
Location : London

PostSubject: Re: Should our elites be extra elite...   Fri Jan 26 2018, 12:28

@FuelDrop wrote:
I can get behind this.

I say give Trueborn Ghostplate stock. I have no idea why GW is so scared of that stuff.

Wooo! Our Archons can upgrade to 4+6++, where most HQ's come with at least 5++ stock and many have 3+4++.

I think the reason they don't do that is the tired old excuse of there not being a model for a Kabalite (whether that be warrior, trueborn or archon) in Ghostplate. Therefore there are no rules for it. Of course, this process does not apply to Space Marines.

_________________

You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting. In what world could you possibly beat me?
Back to top Go down
The Strange Dark One
Wych
avatar

Posts : 623
Join date : 2014-08-22
Location : Private subrealm of the Eldritch Skies Kabal.

PostSubject: Re: Should our elites be extra elite...   Fri Jan 26 2018, 12:52

The kits are the bane of our existence...
This and GW's reasoning.

Edit: Is it possible that She Who Thirsts, is actually a metaphor for the GW executives? Razz

_________________
Discontinued: Dark Eldar 7th Codex Redux
A pragmatic custom codex for pragmatic realspace raiders.
Back to top Go down
|Meavar
Hekatrix
avatar

Posts : 1041
Join date : 2017-01-26

PostSubject: Re: Should our elites be extra elite...   Fri Jan 26 2018, 14:26

Nah, they are just under her influence.

I think making bloodbrides harlequin like in stats would not be a bad option, but it does take something away from the harlequins and they barely (or don't even) have enough options to be worthy of a codex. They should just put the harlequins back under the dark eldar like they used to be. They at least are still true kin unlike our emotially shunned craftworld cousins.
Back to top Go down
Archon_91
Wych
avatar

Posts : 521
Join date : 2017-01-03

PostSubject: Re: Should our elites be extra elite...   Fri Jan 26 2018, 19:26

In a weird way yes and no harlequins are more like the true kin, but they are still similar to our lesser cousins in that they never shunned their psycher abilities, still use shuriken weapons, and in some cases (solitaire and possibly shadowseer) they do repress their emotions
Back to top Go down
Archon_91
Wych
avatar

Posts : 521
Join date : 2017-01-03

PostSubject: Re: Should our elites be extra elite...   Fri Jan 26 2018, 19:26

In a weird way yes and no harlequins are more like the true kin, but they are still similar to our lesser cousins in that they never shunned their psycher abilities, still use shuriken weapons, and in some cases (solitaire and possibly shadowseer) they do repress their emotions
Back to top Go down
Mppqlmd
Incubi
avatar

Posts : 1844
Join date : 2017-07-05

PostSubject: Re: Should our elites be extra elite...   Fri Jan 26 2018, 19:55

@Archon_91 wrote:
In a weird way yes and no harlequins are more like the true kin, but they are still similar to our lesser cousins in that they never shunned their psycher abilities, still use shuriken weapons, and in some cases (solitaire and possibly shadowseer) they do repress their emotions

The Solitaire doesn't repress his emotions (at least not in the same logic as the CW do).

The Solitaire symbol of a symbol of pure abandon and sacrifice. He has no interest in protecting his soul by Serenity (like CW do), because he has accepted that his soul is to be sacrificed to She-Who-Thirsts.


I indeed think that Harlies are closer to DE than they are to CW. They still live in the complete heritage of the ancient Eldar culture, with all its madness, excess and refined approach of life. They just have the chance to still have a god with them, which makes the whole "soul eating" process non-necessary, but appart from that they are the same.

_________________
My Kabal
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Should our elites be extra elite...   

Back to top Go down
 
Should our elites be extra elite...
Back to top 
Page 2 of 2Go to page : Previous  1, 2

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
THE DARK CITY :: 

GENERAL DRUKHARI DISCUSSION

 :: Drukhari Discussion
-
Jump to: