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 A Thought For Splinter Racks

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Ikol
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PostSubject: A Thought For Splinter Racks   Wed Jan 17 2018, 15:04

So, in the all-important fluff, Splinter Racks are just a tiny set of Webway portals on a boat that spits out guns. The troops onboard then pick these shiny new guns up and shoot them instead of reloading, allowing them to chuck more shards of crystalline poison downrange.

Which manifested as Twin-linked Splinter weapons in previous editions... and whilst that was good, it did always raise the question for me: why doesn't anyone grab the Splinter Cannons? Why can't Incubi snap up a rifle and take a few shots with it? They were Ballistic Skill 4 and had NO GUN, which was a little BS Razz

So, my proposal for Splinter Racks in the new edition:

Whilst models embarked on a Transport equipped with Splinter Racks, models are considered to be armed with an additional Splinter Rifle and Splinter Pistol.

This does a few things;

1. Fixes the fluff-problems I raised earlier

2. It' seems better than Twin-linked for standard Warriors or tricked out Trueborn; multi-targeting for the Warriors and a Blaster-carrier still gets the benefit. This comes at the cost of it being slightly worse on a Splinter-Cannon hearing model.

3. Gives a slight SLIGHT defensive bonus to our gunboat: the passengers are armed with pistols, so if the wierd circumstance arises where you decide to NOT disembark-fall-back-shoot-shoot-charge/keep-clear and instead stay in combat, the passengers can shoot everyone with pistols.

4. Incubi, Wyches, HQ, Wracks and (hilariously) Grots get some range whilst embarked.

5. Gives us an easy points target, that being 10 points as it is at most 10 guns in a combination of pistols and rifles at any time (which should each roughly be 1 point if they weren't integrated-cost) as you can't fire both at the same time.

6. The rule looks simple enough to me.


Thoughts?

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|Meavar
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PostSubject: Re: A Thought For Splinter Racks   Wed Jan 17 2018, 17:31

I don't like the pricing, but I like the idea.

I am unsure about the fluff, I always thought it was extra reloads to be jammed in the splinter weapons.
The idea that everyone could grab a splinter rifle is great, I am unsure if I would ad the pistols, but that is just details.

What I do think is that 10 points is very little, you have to compare the cost of a unit of kabalites with a transport to two units of kabalites. And 2 units of kabalites should be a lot cheaper then a vehicle+kabalites with a ward save, a better armour save, a higher move, an extra dark lance, fly and the same amount of splinter shots.
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CurstAlchemist
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PostSubject: Re: A Thought For Splinter Racks   Wed Jan 17 2018, 17:42

What "all-important fluff" states that splinter racks are mini webway portals?

5th edition entry on them states: "The vessels passengers are trained extensively in the art of shooting the vessel's bountiful anti-personnel weapons at high speed, allowing those within to unleash fusillades into the enemy."

7th edition states: "Some Dark Eldar vehicles carry additional racks of anti-personnel weaponry on their decks. This allows passengers to quite literally empty their weapons’ magazines in great raking fusillades, before discarding their spent guns in favour of fully-loaded replacements."

As for the idea itself I think it has some promise but I lack the ability to properly assess point costs.
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: A Thought For Splinter Racks   Wed Jan 17 2018, 19:21

If the splinter racks give us TL (and not rerolls to hit, as i presume it will), it will cost at least 25pts.

However, i'd rather have the Splinter racks just give TL to every splinter weapon embarked. Might actually make SplinterCannonBorn a thing.

And if they give Shardcarbines to Trueborns... you'd have access to twinlinked shardcarbines.

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PostSubject: Re: A Thought For Splinter Racks   Wed Jan 17 2018, 21:32

Giving twin linked to all splinter weapons would be great. It would give players more of a reason to take them compared to the venom.
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FuelDrop
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PostSubject: Re: A Thought For Splinter Racks   Wed Jan 17 2018, 22:42

Twin Linked would be excellent. Rerolls would be fine.

Honestly, I suspect that Splinter Racks are going to be our only big "Force Multiplier" option, since we have no psykers, crap auras, and most of the time we're in transports anyway so even if we had good auras we wouldn't benefit from them.

Given this, I think that BOTH rerolls and extra shots would not be out of the question. Call it a 35 point upgrade.

I fear it's going to be "Reroll 1's to hit with splinter weapons", but that's unlikely right?
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PostSubject: Re: A Thought For Splinter Racks   Thu Jan 18 2018, 06:37

Do realise that if we get the extra shots and it is a 35 point upgrade (and no price changes) you just payed 32 points for a dark lance and upgrading your kabalites to have fly, t5/6 and a better movement, better saves, a ward save and hardly diminished shooting for the first 9 wounds (factoring in the increased damage from rerolls and extra shots means you need roughly 2.6 squads of kabalites for the same damage output).
If we assume it also works for a splinter cannon you get those upgrades for free...

I like our transports and I want them to be viable, but I do not want them to be so much better then our foot troops that there is no reason to field them on foot. I know most people here want to use our transports badly, but that makes that it sometimes feels like they want them to be the only viable way to play dark eldar.
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FuelDrop
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PostSubject: Re: A Thought For Splinter Racks   Thu Jan 18 2018, 07:01

Well if GW revamps our characters to pull their weight and gives us some decent mobility options on foot, then maybe footslogging will be viable. As is we're too slow, frail, short ranged and expensive to footslog it.
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wormfromhell
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PostSubject: Re: A Thought For Splinter Racks   Thu Jan 18 2018, 08:05

@|Meavar wrote:
you just payed 32 points for a dark lance and upgrading your kabalites to have fly, t5/6 and a better movement, better saves, a ward save and hardly diminished shooting for the first 9 wounds (factoring in the increased damage from rerolls and extra shots means you need roughly 2.6 squads of kabalites for the same damage output).

Mate you are not paying 32 points for the raider, we are talking JUST the splinter racks upgrade here.

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PostSubject: Re: A Thought For Splinter Racks   Thu Jan 18 2018, 11:31

@wormfromhell wrote:
@|Meavar wrote:
you just payed 32 points for a dark lance and upgrading your kabalites to have fly, t5/6 and a better movement, better saves, a ward save and hardly diminished shooting for the first 9 wounds (factoring in the increased damage from rerolls and extra shots means you need roughly 2.6 squads of kabalites for the same damage output).

Mate you are not paying 32 points for the raider, we are talking JUST the splinter racks upgrade here.

Yes I know, but you pay 220 points for a raider with splinter racks and 10 kabalites
with double the shots and rerolls to hit you shoot as well as nearly 27 kabalites = 189 points in kabalites (188 when not rounded down to whole kabalites).

which means you have the choice
A) 27 t3 wounds
move 7
less shots after each wound lost
32 points left over

B) 10 t3 wounds and 10 wounds t5/6 5++
a dark lance
movement 14
keeping the same number of shots for the first 10 wounds lost
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Dodo_Night
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PostSubject: Re: A Thought For Splinter Racks   Sun Feb 11 2018, 23:25


Hmm, maybe make the splinter racks like the lasgun array on a chimera? combine with open topped and kabalites in the raider for a TON of poison shots >)

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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: A Thought For Splinter Racks   Mon Feb 12 2018, 04:57

Don't really see why it would. Lasgun array is extra lasguns tacked on a chimera that the occupants can use to fire, while the splinter rifle wrack is just extra splinter rifles for the passengers. Giving embarked splinter rifle units twin linked or some sort of rerolls seems likely to me, and I'm ok with either as long as it's a reasonably priced upgrade.

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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: A Thought For Splinter Racks   Mon Feb 12 2018, 09:39

@|Meavar wrote:
Do realise that if we get the extra shots and it is a 35 point upgrade (and no price changes) you just payed 32 points for a dark lance and upgrading your kabalites to have fly, t5/6 and a better movement, better saves, a ward save and hardly diminished shooting for the first 9 wounds (factoring in the increased damage from rerolls and extra shots means you need roughly 2.6 squads of kabalites for the same damage output).
If we assume it also works for a splinter cannon you get those upgrades for free...

Please apply that logic to any force multiplier in the game (Harlequin troop master, for example) and you'll see how common this is.

Force multiplying IS SUPPOSED to be incredibly point efficient. That's what it's all about.

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Dark Elf Dave
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PostSubject: Re: A Thought For Splinter Racks   Mon Feb 12 2018, 09:44

I think if GW follow the same pattern as they have so far then either re-roll 1's or re-roll failed hits is the likely rule we can expect and they will of course be priced accordingly. Re-roll 1's shouldn't cost much...re-roll failed should cost a bit more.

Another option could be to allow us rapid fire at full range...not very fluffy.

I would prefer a simple re-roll failed hits but would be awesome if they brought back fire twice.
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PostSubject: Re: A Thought For Splinter Racks   Mon Feb 12 2018, 16:57

Well my hope is the archon aura gets switched to rerolling 1s to hit like most other standard characters, so I hope splinter racks would be something that doesn't conflict with an archon aura like that.

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PostSubject: Re: A Thought For Splinter Racks   Mon Feb 12 2018, 17:13

My hope is that our Archon can auto-cast 1 Doom per turn : "Your kabal units reroll failed wound rolls against that target until the end of your turn".

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PostSubject: Re: A Thought For Splinter Racks   Mon Feb 12 2018, 17:15

That would be sweet and a nice unique character ability for DE. I'll take pretty much anything though over the currently mostly useless ld aura.

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The Strange Dark One
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PostSubject: Re: A Thought For Splinter Racks   Mon Feb 12 2018, 18:53

@Mppqlmd wrote:
My hope is that our Archon can auto-cast 1 Doom per turn : "Your kabal units reroll failed wound rolls against that target until the end of your turn".

Team "Doom for the Archon" assemble!
It's seriously the only thing that makes sense in terms of gameplay and fluff.

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PostSubject: Re: A Thought For Splinter Racks   Mon Feb 12 2018, 23:58

@The Strange Dark One wrote:
@Mppqlmd wrote:
My hope is that our Archon can auto-cast 1 Doom per turn : "Your kabal units reroll failed wound rolls against that target until the end of your turn".

Team "Doom for the Archon" assemble!
It's seriously the only thing that makes sense in terms of gameplay and fluff.

Where do I sign up?

Also, how about every DE character aura is not an aura but a surgical de-buff as aforementioned.

Archon: Pick an enemy unit within 12". Drukhari infantry and jetbike units re-roll 1s to hit with ranged weapons if they target that unit. Kabalite infantry units re-roll any and all rolls to hit against that unit.

Succubus: Pick an enemy unit within 12". Drukhari infantry and jetbike units re-roll 1s to hit with melee weapons if they target that unit. Cult infantry and Jetbike units may re-roll any to hit rolls against that unit.

Haemonculus: Pick an enemy unit within 12". Drukhari infantry and jetbike units re-roll 1s to wound with poison weapons if they target that unit. Coven infantry units may re-roll any to wound rolls with poison weapons against that unit.

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PostSubject: Re: A Thought For Splinter Racks   Tue Feb 13 2018, 06:48

For the archon I like the debuff.
For the succubus I might make it a bit harder (but mainly she should fight harder) and say the debuff goes whenever she wounds a unit.
The haemonculus is fine with the aura he has I think, he is more for buffing our dudes than debuffing the opposition (except we could have some artifacts which can debuff and can also/just be taken by a heamy.
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PostSubject: Re: A Thought For Splinter Racks   Tue Feb 13 2018, 09:02

I'd like to see something like :

- Archon : "Your ally units reroll 1's to wound against that target. Kabal ally units reroll every failed wound rolls instead".

- Succubus : "Non-vehicle Allies within 12" reroll 1's to hit in melee. Cult units within 12" add +1 to their A stat when charging".

- Coven : "Non-vehicle Allies within 12" gain +1 to their Inured to pain. Coven units within 12" gain +1 T as well".

That's my vision for DE HQs.

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PostSubject: Re: A Thought For Splinter Racks   Tue Feb 13 2018, 09:31

Reroll wounds would be the thing that Drukhari really need, as our poison and S3 melee both tend to bounce off a bit too much.

I would like the Archon to provide either a reroll 1s to wound debuff to a selected target, or a Doom effect (perhaps on a 4+ seeing as there is otherwise no opportunity for a psyker to deny). Bonus for Kabal seems a nice idea.

Succubus with an ignore overwatch aura for cult units would be good. Damage buffs would be good too.

Haemonculus seems about on the right track already, although Mppqlmd's suggestion looks nice.

Will see in a month or so I guess.

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PostSubject: Re: A Thought For Splinter Racks   Tue Feb 13 2018, 09:51

What if instead of an Aura the Succubus could choose a "personal retinue" at the start of the game? I don't see a buffing aura as fluffy, but having her personal retinue of the most excellent fighters seems much more (keep your friends close, but potential threats closer).

I'd also like her having an improved version of No Escape, which would also aid other melee units without being a straight aura buff.

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PostSubject: Re: A Thought For Splinter Racks   Tue Feb 13 2018, 14:57

We already have one hq with the option for a retuine (the court) really wouldn't want another character with a similar option. Succubus buffing nearby units in combat is just fine by me, and my guess is it will stay being only wytch units.

12" aura is gigantic, no hqs of other armies get an aura that big so it won't happen for us. Honestly as long as the archons aura becomes good I'll be happy. Heamonculus aura is already alright and the succubus is supposed to be more of a beat stick than a force multiplier.

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PostSubject: Re: A Thought For Splinter Racks   Tue Feb 13 2018, 16:07

@Lord Asvaldir wrote:

12" aura is gigantic,  no hqs of other armies get an aura that big so it won't happen for us. Honestly as long as the archons aura becomes good I'll be happy. Heamonculus aura is already alright and the succubus is supposed to be more of a beat stick than a force multiplier.

We should have the same as Necrons : 6" on foot, but 12" when mounted on a command barge. A raid is a perfectly viable command barge, and a Tantalus even more so.


Quote :
We already have one hq with the option for a retuine (the court) really wouldn't want another character with a similar option. Succubus buffing nearby units in combat is just fine by me, and my guess is it will stay being only wytch units.

I think what he meant was more like the "Big 'Uns" in the WHFB greenskin army : for every Succubus in your army, chose one Cult unit at the beginning of the game. They are her personal retinue, and all gain <...> (insert any boost you can think of).

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