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 New Player: Concepting 500p, 600p or 750p List(s)

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Ptah
Slave
Ptah

Posts : 5
Join date : 2017-12-31

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PostSubject: New Player: Concepting 500p, 600p or 750p List(s)   New Player: Concepting 500p, 600p or 750p List(s) I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 16 2018, 02:47

I've recently started an army and have an archon kit, two kabalite warrior kits, and a scourge kit. I'd like to be able to use all of these in a list of any one of the above sizes. I assume that I will need to get my hands on a few raiders as well. Before assembling the rest of my army, I have the following planned:

Archon - agonizer, blaster - 76pts

10x Kabalite Warriors - blaster, phantom grenade launcher - 88pts
10x Kabalite Warriors - blaster, phantom grenade launcher - 88pts

5x Scourges - 4x dark lances - 150pts

Total: 402 pts

What could/should be added to this? Are any wargear changes in order? I'd like to keep the scourges in at some capacity.
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Kantalla
Wych
Kantalla

Posts : 869
Join date : 2015-12-21

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PostSubject: Re: New Player: Concepting 500p, 600p or 750p List(s)   New Player: Concepting 500p, 600p or 750p List(s) I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 16 2018, 03:53

Mostly those are all decent unit options, at least with index rules.

I would split the Kabalites into four squads of 5 instead of 2 squads of 10 and get each a Venom with your next purchases. At the moment Raiders are a bit too expensive.

After that Ravagers and Razorwing Jetfighters would give you a solid stock standard Drukhari list.

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Drukhari damage output analysis
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FuelDrop
Hekatrix
FuelDrop

Posts : 1392
Join date : 2015-06-21

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PostSubject: Re: New Player: Concepting 500p, 600p or 750p List(s)   New Player: Concepting 500p, 600p or 750p List(s) I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 16 2018, 04:10

Eh, venoms bring little to the table.

Go an elite heavy build. Raiders full of trueborn and darklight.
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wormfromhell
Sybarite
wormfromhell

Posts : 324
Join date : 2017-01-03
Location : Australia, the land of the $85 Ravager.

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PostSubject: Re: New Player: Concepting 500p, 600p or 750p List(s)   New Player: Concepting 500p, 600p or 750p List(s) I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 16 2018, 04:52

@FuelDrop wrote:
Eh, venoms bring little to the table.

Go an elite heavy build. Raiders full of trueborn and darklight.

I find that scourge are just so much more point-efficient than true born. first turn optimal shots are almost guaranteed with 36" DL's and DS. TB have a shorter range, and require expensive transports. I find specialised scourge are good for an alpha strike, and unupgraded kabalites in venoms give good speed and durability. Both types of Razorwing are also good.

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Kantalla
Wych
Kantalla

Posts : 869
Join date : 2015-12-21

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PostSubject: Re: New Player: Concepting 500p, 600p or 750p List(s)   New Player: Concepting 500p, 600p or 750p List(s) I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 16 2018, 07:14

I'm not a big Trueborn fan at the moment.

If you want Dark Lances on your Trueborn then you could go 2 × 5 Trueborn with Lances in a Raider. That comes to 305 points for five Dark Lances. Four Lances get a hit penalty if the Raider moves.

Alternatively for 310 points you can have two Ravagers with six Dark Lances. More resilient, more firepower and the ability to move.


_________________
From a midnight sky, there is a searing flash, a boom, a brief moment of destruction, and then it is gone.
Kabal of Lightning Strikes - Project Log
Drukhari damage output analysis
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Drukhari
Hellion
Drukhari

Posts : 39
Join date : 2018-01-03

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PostSubject: Re: New Player: Concepting 500p, 600p or 750p List(s)   New Player: Concepting 500p, 600p or 750p List(s) I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 16 2018, 17:39

I think you should drop your warrior units to 5, just because there's no real benefit to keeping them at 10. Also buy venoms for them. They're amazing.

As for your scourges, if you haven't already assembled them I'd recommend dropping the dark lances all together and playing them with their stock shard carbines. They then get to use their mobility without sacrificing their output, and become great for objective control. Scourges with dark lances are just too expensive per wound and losing a gun with every wound really hurts.

After dropping the scourges' lances you'll need to bring more to the table. Ravagers, RWJFs, or trueborn 5 man units with 2 Lances to hold friendly objectives are all good options.

Definitely do not take Fueldrop's advice. Elite Drukhari doesn't work. We go down easy enough that you know some stuff is going to die. The trick is to make sure nothing is free single most valuable target on the table so there's no way to cripple you just by popping 1 or 2 transports.
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Ptah
Slave
Ptah

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Join date : 2017-12-31

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PostSubject: Re: New Player: Concepting 500p, 600p or 750p List(s)   New Player: Concepting 500p, 600p or 750p List(s) I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 16 2018, 20:19

Thanks for all the advice. I'll definitely go for 4x5 kabalites w/ blaster in venoms then. Also a ravager at least. Would it be worth to upgrade one of the scourges shard carbines into another weapon like heat lance, splinter cannon, haywire blaster etc? I am also considering making a 4 man trueborn squad to accompany the Archon either on foot or in yet another venom. Would this be wise? If so, would I go for 2 dark lances on them?
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Ptah
Slave
Ptah

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PostSubject: Re: New Player: Concepting 500p, 600p or 750p List(s)   New Player: Concepting 500p, 600p or 750p List(s) I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 16 2018, 20:48

So here's a new list:

Archon - agonizer, blaster - 76pts

5x Kabalite Warriors - blaster, phantom grenade launcher - 53pts
5x Kabalite Warriors - blaster, phantom grenade launcher - 53pts
5x Kabalite Warriors - blaster, phantom grenade launcher - 53pts

Venom x4 - 65 x 4 = 260 pts

5x Scourges - splinter cannon - 85 pts

Ravager - 3x dark lances, shock prow - 156 pts

Total: 899 pts

So it's not quite the range of points that I had indicated originally, but a 900 point game will be just fine I believe. Thoughts?
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Drukhari
Hellion
Drukhari

Posts : 39
Join date : 2018-01-03

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PostSubject: Re: New Player: Concepting 500p, 600p or 750p List(s)   New Player: Concepting 500p, 600p or 750p List(s) I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 16 2018, 21:33

I see you noticed a patrol detachment would only allow you 3 troop choices. Good catch.

I like where you're going, but I think you can start smaller, and more flexible.

Maybe try something like this?

HQ - Archon - Agoniser, Splinter Pistol 58

Troop - Kabalite Warrior x5 - Blaster 50
Troop - Kabalite Warrior x5 - Blaster 50

Dedicated Transport - Venom - Splinter Cannon x2 95
Dedicated Transport - Venom - Splinter Cannon x2 95

Elite - Kabalite Trueborn x5 - 2x Dark Lance 95

Fast Attack - Scourge x5 - Shard Carbines 70
Fast Attack - Scourge x5 - Shard Carbines 70

Flyer - Razorwing Jetfighter - Dark Lance x2, Twin Splinter Rifle, Razorwing Missiles - 155

This adds up to 738 points, leaving you a few to toss some phantasm grenade launchers or something in for a 750 point game.

It gives you 2 units of warriors in venoms to harrass the enemy, clear out any weak infantry with mass splinter fire, and take some potshots at anything bigger with the high strength/ap blasters.

This list gives you 2 units of scourges for contesting mid-field objectives, and a unit of trueborn in the backfield to sit on friendly objectives with the Archon to take some shots at any thing big with their Dark Lances.

It also has a Razorwing Jetfighter, which is like a swiss army knife of DE vehicles. It's awesome.

Bringing the RWJF is a little ballsy because it won't keep you in the game if everything else is wiped off the table, but at this point level it's not likely you'll be seeing anything SUPER heavy that would necessitate a ravager, at least not every game like you could reasonably expect to in a larger point size. It'd feel super bad to bring a ravager to a game where the other guy brings only infantry, but a RWJF can do just fine in any game. Plus a little risk keeps things fun.

Bringing a splinter cannon on scourges is 100% not worth it. None of the special weapons are really. You could try bringing heavy weapons like dark lances, but it's not for me. The splinter cannon costs more than another model, and only adds in 3 more shots, at -1 to hit if you move. If you brought another Scourge you'd still have those 3 more shots, but wouldn't be worried about moving around, and would add another wound to the unit. Don't take splinter cannons.
You did your math wrong for the venoms. They're 65, plus 15 per splinter cannon and they come stock with one, which makes the base price 80 if you bring a twinlinked splinter rifle and 95 if you bring 2 cannons, which I always recommend on units with blasters because blaster range is the same as splinter cannon rapidfire.
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|Meavar
Hekatrix
|Meavar

Posts : 1041
Join date : 2017-01-26

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PostSubject: Re: New Player: Concepting 500p, 600p or 750p List(s)   New Player: Concepting 500p, 600p or 750p List(s) I_icon_minitimeWed Jan 17 2018, 07:14

Not a very experienced genral, but because of that I often play small games.
I would say you can drop it even further down to 600 to start with, possibly even dropping the scourges and starting at roughly 500. Starting small has the large advantage that for most people the motivation is better to paint most of it. With these you also have a good starting point from which to build by adding a new unit every time.

HQ - Archon - Agoniser, Splinter Pistol 58

Troop - Kabalite Warrior x5 - Blaster 50
Troop - Kabalite Warrior x5 - Blaster 50

Dedicated Transport - Venom - Splinter Cannon x2 95
Dedicated Transport - Venom - Splinter Cannon x2 95

Fast Attack - Scourge x5 - Shard Carbines 70

Razorwing jetfigther or ravager 155
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Drukhari
Hellion
Drukhari

Posts : 39
Join date : 2018-01-03

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PostSubject: Re: New Player: Concepting 500p, 600p or 750p List(s)   New Player: Concepting 500p, 600p or 750p List(s) I_icon_minitimeWed Jan 17 2018, 09:08

8th edition isn't balanced for small games. I'm all for painting, and for milestones, but I don't think you should be looking to start as small as possible or anything.
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|Meavar
Hekatrix
|Meavar

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Join date : 2017-01-26

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PostSubject: Re: New Player: Concepting 500p, 600p or 750p List(s)   New Player: Concepting 500p, 600p or 750p List(s) I_icon_minitimeWed Jan 17 2018, 13:11

While I agree balance can be a bit of a problem at smaller games expecially it often becomes rock paper scissors. Those small battles do really help with getting the rules down and learning your army if you have not played before (or have not played for serveral editions).
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Drukhari
Hellion
Drukhari

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Join date : 2018-01-03

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PostSubject: Re: New Player: Concepting 500p, 600p or 750p List(s)   New Player: Concepting 500p, 600p or 750p List(s) I_icon_minitimeWed Jan 17 2018, 16:42

Not disagreeing there! I just don't think dropping interesting stuff to be able to play 600 instead of 500 is really worth it. Especially when you're bringing vehicles, 750 points really isn't that much to paint that it should feel super daunting, even if you're new.
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Ptah
Slave
Ptah

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Join date : 2017-12-31

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PostSubject: Re: New Player: Concepting 500p, 600p or 750p List(s)   New Player: Concepting 500p, 600p or 750p List(s) I_icon_minitimeWed Jan 17 2018, 23:48

Thank you all for the advice again. I'll be going with Drukhari's list as it seems the most fitting. I'm especially glad it has more scourges in it, which is an excellent excuse for me to assemble more of them! They are great models.
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Drukhari
Hellion
Drukhari

Posts : 39
Join date : 2018-01-03

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PostSubject: Re: New Player: Concepting 500p, 600p or 750p List(s)   New Player: Concepting 500p, 600p or 750p List(s) I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 18 2018, 00:23

I hope it serves you well!

Cheers
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PostSubject: Re: New Player: Concepting 500p, 600p or 750p List(s)   New Player: Concepting 500p, 600p or 750p List(s) I_icon_minitime

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