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 1750, returning after 6 month break into a new edition

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Slave
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PostSubject: 1750, returning after 6 month break into a new edition   1750, returning after 6 month break into a new edition I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 14 2018, 18:31



As the title says, I haven't had any experience with dark eldar in 8th, but I played them for 4 years prior. Had a look around at what's what (no webway portal????), and came up with this.
(b)++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Aeldari - Drukhari) [98 PL, 1750pts] ++[/b]

+ No Force Org Slot +

Court of the Archon [6 PL, 62pts]: Sslyth, Sslyth

+ Heavy Support +

Cronos [5 PL, 102pts]: Cronos

Ravager [8 PL, 155pts]: Dark Lance, Dark Lance, Dark Lance

Talos [7 PL, 121pts]
. Talos: Chain-Flails, Macro-Scalpel, Stinger Pod

+ Dedicated Transport +

Raider [6 PL, 115pts]: Dark Lance

+ Troops +

Kabalite Warriors [3 PL, 50pts]
. 3x Kabalite Warrior
. Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
. Sybarite: Splinter Rifle

Kabalite Warriors [3 PL, 50pts]
. 3x Kabalite Warrior
. Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
. Sybarite: Splinter Rifle

Kabalite Warriors [3 PL, 50pts]
. 3x Kabalite Warrior
. Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
. Sybarite: Splinter Rifle

Kabalite Warriors [3 PL, 50pts]
. 3x Kabalite Warrior
. Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
. Sybarite: Splinter Rifle

+ Flyer +

Razorwing Jetfighter [8 PL, 155pts]: 2 Dark Lances, Twin splinter rifle

+ Fast Attack +

Scourges [10 PL, 144pts]
. Scourge
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Blaster
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Blaster
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Blaster
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Blaster
. Solarite: Shardcarbine

+ HQ +

Archon [4 PL, 73pts]: Agoniser, Blaster

Haemonculus [5 PL, 83pts]: Crucible of Malediction, Electrocorrosive whip, Master Regenerist, Splinter Pistol, The Parasite's Kiss, Warlord

+ Elites +

Grotesques [12 PL, 260pts]
. Grotesque: Flesh Gauntlet, Liquifier Gun
. Grotesque: Flesh Gauntlet, Liquifier Gun
. Grotesque: Flesh Gauntlet, Monstrous cleaver
. Grotesque: Flesh Gauntlet, Monstrous cleaver
. Grotesque: Flesh Gauntlet, Monstrous cleaver
. Grotesque: Flesh Gauntlet, Monstrous cleaver

Incubi [5 PL, 90pts]
. 4x Incubi
. Klaivex: Klaive

Kabalite Trueborn [5 PL, 95pts]
. Dracon: Splinter Rifle
. 2x Kabalite Trueborn
. Trueborn with Heavy Weapon: Dark Lance
. Trueborn with Heavy Weapon: Dark Lance

Kabalite Trueborn [5 PL, 95pts]
. Dracon: Splinter Rifle
. 2x Kabalite Trueborn
. Trueborn with Heavy Weapon: Dark Lance
. Trueborn with Heavy Weapon: Dark Lance

++ Total: [98 PL, 1750pts] ++

The idea is to have harmony + grotesques + Talos + cronos in a blob in the middle, and to have the archon, incubi and slyth in the raider. Then use the kabalites and scourges as cheap and mobile blasters, whilst the trueborn and ravager provide fire from the back.
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kicu
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PostSubject: Re: 1750, returning after 6 month break into a new edition   1750, returning after 6 month break into a new edition I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 14 2018, 21:27

We have webway - in a form of a stratagem. For 1cp u can "deepstrike" infantry/biker, for 3cp u can do that with 2 units.

I can't really say anything about covens, never use them.

I would rather take lances on scourges and blasters on trueborn. You can deepstrike ur winged ladies to snipe enemy characters

I don't have any experience with no-boat DE, but i do not think it is not optimal.
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Drukhari
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Drukhari

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Join date : 2018-01-03

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PostSubject: Re: 1750, returning after 6 month break into a new edition   1750, returning after 6 month break into a new edition I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 15 2018, 21:41

I'm actually glad you took Dark Lances on trueborn instead of Scourges. Dark Lances on scourges drive me crazy because you're paying for mobility while moving them costs you -1 to hit. This makes a lot more sense to me.

Scourges with blasters can hit like a truck on the turn they come in, the only problem is that they're expensive when you give them special weapons, and you lose a weapon for every model that dies. There are just better ways.

A court of the Archon isn't going to make your Archon actually get anything done. Our HQs are basically just a tax right now, and they're universally terrible. Except for maybe the named Wych one, who's name eludes me. Don't waste the points trying to make him useful.

You're building the list wrong for how most people would play Dark Eldar. We're not resilient enough to try to play the long game with most armies. We need to hit them fast, hard, and where it hurts. Your list doesn't have the mobility to do that, even with deepstrike stratagem (which I don't see any good options for where you would be able to use it effectively anyway).

Your talos and chronos are going to be too slow to be able to do any of what you really want them to be able to do before turn 2 if the enemy is coming at you, and turn 3 if they're hanging back (by which point the game would already be decided because it's not hard to shoot DE off a table if they don't cripple you turn 1).

Warriors with blasters are awesome, but they're awesome because it's a cheap unit with a good gun that lets you buy a venom. A blaster on an open-topped vehicle is a wonderful thing, but a blaster on foot slogging infantry is just 15 points you're throwing away because your enemy will never let it get within threat range of anything worth shooting with it.

The Grotesques and Incubi are going to have similar problems to the Talos and Cronos. They're just going to take too long to get there. PLUS, if you want a tough unit to throw at something I believe it's better to just take Wracks with the Haemy.

I would drop the Talos and Cronos for 223 points.
I'd drop a unit of warriors for another 50 points. You only need 3 units to meet a batallion detachment's requirements. 273 points.
I'd drop the grotesques, because while cool, there are better options for melee units in our codex and 260 points is a MASSIVE sink for a unit that you're basically just hoping they'll shoot at while giving them no real reason to do so. 533 points.
I'd drop the Incubi, and Slythh because the plan is flawed. Incubi can be scary to MEQ, and being the only unit in a transport makes them the only unit on the table worth shooting first turn, so if your opponent gets first turn they'll almost definitely destroy your raider and leave your incubi and Slythh stranded being completely ineffective. This means you don't need that raider anymore either. 800 Points.
I'd also drop the scourges for the reasons listed earlier, but don't worry the scourges themselves are awesome and they'll be back. 944 Points.

Now how to spend those 944 points?

First thing first, a second Ravager with Dark Lances. These things are our bread and butter for dealing with superheavies, which are a real issue in 1500+ point games with all the traitor primarchs and things floating around this edition. 789 Points.

Get 3 venoms with Splinter Cannons on the table. Their rapidfire range is the same range as the blasters your warriors have, which makes them great for kiting people around. Also, having your infantry in vehicles lets you get them into threat range first turn, and helps you survive opponent's first turn because of invuln saves and the -1 to hit that venoms give you. 504 points.

RWJFs are one of the best flyers in the game. You could stand to have more than one. A second one brings you down to 349 points.

I'd drop the blaster on the Archon for a splinter pistol. You don't have a transport for him, and he's pretty bad anyway. Might as well leave him in the backfield with your Trueborn. 364 points.

I'd bring 2 units of 5 scourges with their stock shard carbines. They're super mobile, and can bully the hell out of objective camping infantry with their 15 shots/unit, and they're cheap enough that you don't feel bad for letting them sit on an objective for a bit. 224 points.

Now is when things get interesting. You need to decide what you want from your Haemonculous. He can be used to sit in the back field to raise the toughness of your Ravagers, he can advance up the table with the Venoms to raise their toughness since a lot of people will panic and throw all their small arms fire into them, or you can bring a melee unit with him and toss them in a raider.

If you want to bring a melee unit I'd recommend Wracks. 9 Wracks in a raider will set you back 205 points, and Haemy can raise their toughness with his buff. This leaves you with 19 points for upgrades for them or PGLs for all your warriors. This is my least favourite option, because the wracks aren't going to be able to do anything until at least turn 2 when they disembark, and swinging the game in our favor on turn one is what we as Dark Eldar players do.

Personally, I'd keep the haemy with your Ravagers in the back. I'd drop the whip for his stock haemonculous tools to save yourself 7 points. This is important because it brings you up to 231.

I'd then add another unit of 5 scourges, because you made your anti-tank more resilient, you can afford to throw in a little more anti-infantry. 161 points.

161 points is enough for another Ravager, or another Razorwing Jetfighter built the way you already have in your list. Which you take shouldn't really matter. They're both great options. I'd lean towards the RWJF, because having a third would give you another command point, which could be great. A third Ravager would be good if your meta has a lot of superheavies or imperial players playing with full armor lists, whereas a RWJF would have something to add to your list no matter what your opponent brings. Just go with whichever model you like the look of better even, you literally can't go wrong. This leaves you with 6 points. 6 Points can be a couple PGLs on your warriors, or it could be one PGL and 3 Shock Prows for ravagers, etc.

Sorry I took everything apart. I hope this helps and you don't just think I'm some douchebag on the internet trying to make you feel bad. I really am just trying to help!

Happy wargaming.
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Slave
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PostSubject: Re: 1750, returning after 6 month break into a new edition   1750, returning after 6 month break into a new edition I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 16 2018, 20:53

Thanks for the reply.
I'm leaning towards taking a third ravager as 90% of players near me are using some flavour of power armour with a primary or tau/craftworlds with stormsurge or wraithknight. I was mainly staying away from venoms due to them being 80 points. Last edition my list would have had 5-7. Also are Reaver's any good? I love the models and gangs of commorragh is tempting.
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Drukhari
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PostSubject: Re: 1750, returning after 6 month break into a new edition   1750, returning after 6 month break into a new edition I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 16 2018, 21:11

No problem! I hope I explained my thought processes well enough.

Venoms are completely amazing. The -1 to hit that they get (which no other DE vehicles except for flyers get) is enough to be the difference between surviving your opponent getting first turn and losing the game before you get to act. They can be a bit expensive, but they're 100% worth it.

Reavers are NOT good. They feel fine on the table because they're fast and tough and everything, but the problem is that you're paying sooo much for that toughness that you should be spending on guns. We're not playing the long game as DE, we're trying to table the opponent every time because it's the only way to win reliably. We need as much firepower as possible and Reavers just can't bring it, which is unfortunate because they're gorgeous models.

I'd try to steer you towards a RWJF instead of third ravager, and suggest using the ravager to bump yourself up to the 2000 point mark. I'm not sure, but I feel like wraithknights aren't vehicles, which means splinter weapons wound on 4s. Ravagers are better against vehicles, but a RWJF can deal with big targets as well as small targets, and the only place it really falters is against massive vehicles like knights or baneblades. Even then, with 2 Dark Lances it's far from aweful.
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PostSubject: Re: 1750, returning after 6 month break into a new edition   1750, returning after 6 month break into a new edition I_icon_minitime

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