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 Razorflails.

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FuelDrop
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Razorflails.   Mon Jan 08 2018, 12:43

Razorflails are the unloved child of the Wych Weapons. In 7th edition they were pretty terrible as an option, but in 8th they have become flat out embarrasing compared to their competition.

So, I want to pitch an idea to everyone:

Razorflails. Melee. S: User. AP: -1. Damage: 1. Special: +1 attack when fighting with this weapon. +1 to hit when fighting with this weapon. Generates additional attacks on to hit rolls of 6+, additional attacks cannot generate further attacks.



So, still giving an accuracy boost by making you hit on 2+ from turn 1, rather than with rerolls. Because you probably have a succubus nearby and will be rerolling those 1's either way. But, generating extra attacks on a 5+ (4+ after turn 3) gives it at least something to do to compete with the Hydra Gauntlets.

Not convinced they're on par with the gauntlets, maybe make them 3 points for the pair as well?

Thoughts?

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|Meavar
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PostSubject: Re: Razorflails.   Tue Jan 09 2018, 07:23

With both the +1 to hit and the extra attacks generated it will be to good.
Before turn 3 you already generate attacks on a 5+ since you have +1 to hit and are thus (slightly better against t3 and equal against t4) and you will become even better at turn 3+ when you have +2 to hit.
If you make it generating an extra attack on a 7+ if it has +1 to hit it will still generate extra attacks on a unmodified roll of a 6 in the first 2 turns and it will be slightly worse but after turn 3 it will perform similar against t4 and outperform against t3. So we will have one weapon which is better early game and versus t4 and one late game and versus t3?
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PostSubject: Re: Razorflails.   Tue Jan 09 2018, 10:46

@|Meavar wrote:
With both the +1 to hit and the extra attacks generated it will be to good.
Before turn 3 you already generate attacks on a 5+ since you have +1 to hit and are thus (slightly better against t3 and equal against t4) and you will become even better at turn 3+ when you have +2 to hit.
If you make it generating an extra attack on a 7+ if it has +1 to hit it will still generate extra attacks on a unmodified roll of a 6 in the first 2 turns and it will be slightly worse but after turn 3 it will perform similar against t4 and outperform against t3. So we will have one weapon which is better early game and versus t4 and one late game and versus t3?

I would say make it 6+ base (so 5+ with the +1 to hit turn 1), and alter the combat drugs to also give +1 to hit. It's still generating S3 attacks (barring drugs), and it's not like there aren't entire armies who can pull this trick more or less army wide with a bit of planning (Chaos, for instance, can have Death to the False Emperor at 4+ for whole squads from turn 1 onwards).

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PostSubject: Re: Razorflails.   Tue Jan 09 2018, 15:09

This design would be efficient with the +1S drug, and the gauntlets would be efficient with the +1A drug.

Add a utility effect to the Shardnet, and you'd actually have decent wargear options for wyches...

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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: Razorflails.   Tue Jan 09 2018, 16:17

@Mppqlmd wrote:
This design would be efficient with the +1S drug, and the gauntlets would be efficient with the +1A drug.

Add a utility effect to the Shardnet, and you'd actually have decent wargear options for wyches...

+1 on your roll out when trying to lock an enemy in CC
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PostSubject: Re: Razorflails.   Tue Jan 09 2018, 23:26

Shardnets: +1 per shardnet on roll-off to lock enemy in CC. Enemy unit takes a S: user AP -1 Damage: 1 hit for every point they fail the no escape rolloff by if the combat involves at least one shardnet.

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PostSubject: Re: Razorflails.   Wed Jan 10 2018, 09:48

My feeling is that its a bit bulky with three special rules.
It would fit better if refined down to one special feature.
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: Razorflails.   Wed Jan 10 2018, 16:38

No escape should auto-pass.


Or the rename it "No Escape... except when they do... Which is 50% of the time.... then Yes Escape..."

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