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 Building a list based on proxy models

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zelatar
Kabalite Warrior
zelatar

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Join date : 2018-01-03
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PostSubject: Building a list based on proxy models   Building a list based on proxy models I_icon_minitimeWed Jan 03 2018, 23:01

Hi everyone,

First post, very excited to start in on a 40K army. I plan to heavily sculpt and kitbash some unused Dark Elf models to build a casual "counts as" army. And I don't mean I plan to tack some chains on chariots or Talos tanks on hydras--I'm so excited to start in and share some pics.

I was hoping someone could look over the list below and suggest a proxy roster based on the models available.

I am kinda hoping for a lightning fast army, maybe ships depositing wracks, etc. Multiple model types could serve as a single DE model type if necessary. I really like the hellion models and was thinking of picking up a few of those or a few ships if necessary to field my existing models.

I listed the models in categories based on which DE units strike me as most appropriate as proxies. Again, some of the models may seem jarring, but once sculpting, appropriate basing, and painting is done, I think they should be exciting  rather than groan-inducing.


Incubi, Kabalites, Wracks, or Mandrakes
10 Manflayers
10 Black Ark Corsairs
10 Sisters of Slaughter
10 Khorne Bloodthirsters

Reavers or Grotesques
4 Dark Riders
5 Cold One Knights
5 Vampire Counts Hexwraiths
6 Vampire Counts Crypt Horrors

Razorwings, maybe Venom
1 High Elf Prince on Gryphon
1 High Elf Lion Chariot

Pain Engines
3 War Hydras

Fiends?
10 Vampire Counts Dire Wolves

HQs
1 Non-GW Vampire Warlord
1 Festus = HQ of some sort (haemonculus)?

Raiders
1 Empire Steam Tank
1 Actual Raider
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Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: Building a list based on proxy models   Building a list based on proxy models I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 04 2018, 06:19

With units like the bloodthirster be carefull since they are a legal unit in 40k, just not for us.
Sisters of slaughter look a lot like wych elves, so maybe use them as such?
Manflayers and corsairs can probably be made to look as mandrakes or kabalites depending on conversions and painting.


For grotesques use a larger model (like the crypt horrors) not a mounted model.

With things like the steam tank and the chariot, remember that our vehicles are supposed to be flying, maybe consider the flying chariot of the high elves instead?

I think in most cases if the conversions are done well and it is clear what everything represents most people won't mind to much, or might even like it. Just make sure it is reasonably clear what is what, and it is the same for all units (don't make one venom a gryphon and another venom a chariot, make both gryphon riders) I find in my local comunity most people don't mind fighting converted armies as long as it looks nice and is not just a proxy model but a real conversion, although in some tournaments it will be frowned upon since a lot of those units are really different and thus might confuse people.
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Kantalla
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: Building a list based on proxy models   Building a list based on proxy models I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 04 2018, 07:34

I played against a really nice converted Eldar army a while ago where each of the vehicles was a dinosaur of some kind. My opponent actually had labels he put on the bases to make sure each unit was really clear. In my area that kind of thing would absolutely be encouraged, tournaments or general play.

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Kabalite Warrior
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PostSubject: Re: Building a list based on proxy models   Building a list based on proxy models I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 09 2018, 20:03

Thank you both for the feedback! Here's what I'm tentatively planning, the idea being that I'd like to test out some units that sound fun (Scourges and Incubi, for example).

1 Raider w 10 Kabalites
1 Raider w 9 Kabalites + 1 Archon
1 Raider w 10 Incubi
1 Raider w 4 Grotesques + 1 Haemonculus
9 Hellions
5 Scourges
3 Talos
1 Razorwing
1 Bomber

My thought is to open with darklight and razorwing / bomber attacks, using the hellions, scourges, and possibly the Talos as distractions and to sow chaos. While all this is going on, move the Raiders into position to unload the Grotesques, Talos, and Incubi against strategic targets.

Here is another idea:

2 Raiders w 10 Kabalites
1 Raider w 10 Incubi
1 Venom w 4 Sslyth + 1 Archon
20 Mandrakes
15 Scourges
1 Razorwing
1 Bomber

The emphasis here is on a stronger alpha. Darklight and razorwing / bomber attacks accompanied by scourge sniping and deep strike mandrakes. The Raiders and Venom would move into position to unload the Incubi and Archon court. I think this list sounds more fun and flavorful, personally.

Any suggestions greatly appreciated! If one of these sounds like a good start, I'll flesh out the list with specific weapons and equipment and aim for whichever point count makes sense.

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Kabalite Warrior
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PostSubject: Re: Building a list based on proxy models   Building a list based on proxy models I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 11 2018, 05:36

My copy of Xenos 1 just arrived, had a chance to play around with points. How's this look for a 2K list?

Air Wing Detachment (+1 CP; 3 Flyers)
x2 Razorwing with two Dark Lances and a Splinter Cannon (340)
x1 Voidraven with Dark Scythe + Missiles (194)

Battalion (+3 CP; 2 HQ, 3 Troops, 2 Elites, 5 Transports)
x2 units of 10 Kabalites; one w/ Dark Lance, one w/ Shredder; Sybarite w/ Blast Pistol (220)
x2 Raiders for above units, each with Dark Lance (230)
x2 Archon with Husk Blade + Blaster (158)
x2 undersized units of 4 Kabalite Trueborn; two w/ Dark Lances, two with Blasters (250)
x2 Venoms (each containing 1 archon / 1 unit trueborns) w/ splinter cannons (190)
x1 unit of 5 vanilla Kabalites (35)
x1 Venom (containing vanilla Kabalites) w/ splinter cannons (95)

1997 points total. Really wanted to include some Scourge units and Mandrakes but this struck me as a fairly simple army for a novice like me to learn the basics.

I have a question about undersized units, for anyone who may be able to help me. I get the impression that even though I pay for the full number of units, I don't gain certain benefits (for example, if you only have nine Kabalites, you don't get a Dark Lance even though you paid for ten units). Based on the Trueborn description, I'm not sure if I am allowed to take the Dark Lances or Blasters. It simply says "two models may take Dark Lances", "four models may take Blasters". I would think technically I can equip my Trueborns as above, but just want a second opinion in case I am mistaken.

Thanks again!

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Kabalite Warrior
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PostSubject: Re: Building a list based on proxy models   Building a list based on proxy models I_icon_minitimeFri Jan 12 2018, 00:16

Learned about the problem with undersized units. I've hit upon a list that I think I can feel good about experimenting with as I learn the game.


AIR WING DETACHMENT (+1 CP; 3 Flyers)

x2 Razorwing w 2 dark lances + splinter cannon
x1 Voidraven w dark scythes + missiles
340 + 194 = 534 POINTS


KABAL BATTALION (+3 CP, 2 HQ, 3 Troops, 2 Fast, 2 Heavy, 5 Transport)

x2 Archon w blaster + huskblade
x3 unit of 5 Kabalites w splinter rifles; 1 blaster; Sybarite w blast pistol + phantasm grenade launcher
x2 unit of 5 Scourges; 4 dark lances; Solarite w blast pistol + power lance
x2 Ravager w 3 dark lances + shock prow
x5 Venom w dual splinter cannons
158 + 189 + 328 + 312 +  475 = 1465 POINTS


Total points = 1998


My thought is to go in alpha-heavy with the dark lances, blasters, and air wing, and avoid melee as much as possible. Each Kabalite unit and Archon gets its own Venom. Either use the Scourges up front for alpha chaos or else hold onto them to sow paranoia and eventually drop them in an inopportune spot for an opponent.
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Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: Building a list based on proxy models   Building a list based on proxy models I_icon_minitimeFri Jan 12 2018, 09:49

It might be depending on the meta and opponents.

But some comments from an newb like me.
That is one hell of a lot of lances, you might wish to replace some with dissies instead.
Against turn 1 charges the scourges are very expesive charge blockers, you might wish to use your kabalites for that instead.

Don't avoid melee, against any melee army, I completely agree, but against most shooting armies melee is very favorable for us. Not only can we fight better then them, we also are able to move out of combat and still shoot.
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zelatar
Kabalite Warrior
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PostSubject: Re: Building a list based on proxy models   Building a list based on proxy models I_icon_minitimeFri Jan 12 2018, 16:00

Great points, thank you! I've left the Air Wing detachment as-is, but made some changes to the Battalion:


KABAL BATTALION (+3 CP, 2 HQ, 3 Troops, 2 Fast, 2 Heavy, 5 Transport)

x1 Archon w blaster + husk blade + phantasm grenade launcher
x1 Archon w blaster + husk blade
x3 unit of 5 Kabalites; 3 splinter rifles; 1 blaster; Sybarite w blast pistol + phantasm grenade launcher
x2 unit of 5 Scourges; 4 dark lances; Solarite w splinter pistol + power lance
x2 Ravager w 2 dark lances + 1 disintegrator cannon + shock prow
x5 Venom w dual splinter cannons
82 + 79 + 189 + 308 + 332 +  475 = 1465 POINTS


Total points = 1999


My thought is to go in alpha-heavy with the dark lances, blasters, and air wing, and avoid melee as much as possible. Each Kabalite unit and Archon gets its own Venom. Either use the Scourges up front for alpha chaos or else hold onto them to sow paranoia and eventually drop them in an inopportune spot for an opponent.

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PostSubject: Re: Building a list based on proxy models   Building a list based on proxy models I_icon_minitime

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