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Darkin
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PostSubject: Re: Is this Power-play?   Thu Dec 21 2017, 18:55

okay, so I and my friend are in a gaming group of 10-15 people. we meet regularly and have little tournaments. we even out own point system and a list on who has the most points (winning gives 10p, losing only 3, painted minis etc). the game we played was a game that wasn't for the list but I wanted to try it out because I want to use it in our private tournaments and other games. he didn't build a so competitive list I believe, I don't have much to do with Necrons. He had an Annihilator-barge, a doomsday arc, 3x15 squads of warriors, 3 bikes (idk what they're called right now), overlord, cryptec and an illuminor Szeras
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Is this Power-play?   Thu Dec 21 2017, 19:07

Sounds like a miscommunication honestly.

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Bad-baden-baden
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PostSubject: Re: Is this Power-play?   Thu Dec 21 2017, 21:49

@Darkin wrote:
so for you, i am a jerk for playing the things that work?
that's kinda stupid no?

Like what Amish said - You came here and asked if you played a "power list", we're telling you that yes you did. You didn't give us anything to work with except your friend didn't have fun playing against it.
What do you want us to say? Showing your friend that a bunch of people on the internet agree with you isn't going to suddenly make him start having fun.


Whatever you end up doing, it's your choice. I'm showing my opinion that you're going to have more fun if you tone your list down and add in the cool things that are a part of Dark Eldar. Using more diverse units is fun, give it a try!
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Bad-baden-baden
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PostSubject: Re: Is this Power-play?   Thu Dec 21 2017, 21:50

@Darkin wrote:
okay, so I and my friend are in a gaming group of 10-15 people. we meet regularly and have little tournaments. we even out own point system and a list on who has the most points (winning gives 10p, losing only 3, painted minis etc). the game we played was a game that wasn't for the list but I wanted to try it out because I want to use it in our private tournaments and other games. he didn't build a so competitive list I believe, I don't have much to do with Necrons. He had an Annihilator-barge, a doomsday arc, 3x15 squads of  warriors, 3 bikes  (idk what they're called right now), overlord, cryptec and an illuminor Szeras

Definitely seems like a miscommunication then
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mattblowers
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PostSubject: Re: Is this Power-play?   Tue Dec 26 2017, 20:16

@Bad-baden-baden wrote:
But the thing is he IS playing a power list. His list is perhaps one of the best lists you can put together with Dark eldar.

I don't understand this mentality of "tell him to get hard."
If he's not having fun, you're not going to have someone to play against for long. Perhaps worse yet, you could get a reputation.
At my local I played lists that weren't tournament ready, but were still more powerful than the meta. I noticed that people were starting to shy away from me a bit. Now I put together lists that I think are fun and I'm able to find games much easier and people actually seek me out to play. What's more is even with the stupid lists I usually win, but now people attribute it to me as a player and not as a jerk.
I don't understand that mind set at all. You need to play 'bad' lists or people don't want to play you? The problem HAS to be something else. I actually find tournament type players to usually be the easiest type to play against. I like narrative/fluffy games the most myself but they are also the hardest to pull off successfully. It's really hard to balance my idea of what is fluffy against your idea of what it is. I only attempt to do that with the more experienced players.

You can certainly dial it way back if you are playing a total noob, but I can't say how many times someone told me they were bringing a fluffy list only to drop some of the most OP models on the table. "I find the Riptide Wing the most fluffy way I like to play." Literally had a player in the 7th tell me that. Setting a point level and bringing the best list you can is the simplest way to play a balanced game. Anything after that really takes some negotiation.
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Painjunky
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PostSubject: Re: Is this Power-play?   Tue Dec 26 2017, 23:33

I've run into this problem from time to time.

My advice is to help him build a better list. Direct him to forums that will improve his list and tactics.

Tone your list down by running a few units that you like but have very average rules eg. wyches, reavers, talos. I find this is fun too.

This way you hopefully meet in the middle and you're both happy.
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wormfromhell
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PostSubject: Re: Is this Power-play?   Wed Dec 27 2017, 00:25

Just slow down and try to appreciate the other aspects of the hobby such as painting, fluff, the social side, ect. If you really want to have a skill-based challenge, don't play a game that relies on dice for all interactions.

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Is this Power-play?   Wed Dec 27 2017, 01:52

@mattblowers wrote:

I don't understand that mind set at all. You need to play 'bad' lists or people don't want to play you? The problem HAS to be something else.

Some ppl just like easy going games and use it to throw dice and talk, hoping for a long game with many turns not worrying about things dying. Tho we dont know if that is the case or not.

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Aschen
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PostSubject: Re: Is this Power-play?   Wed Dec 27 2017, 02:34

Maybe you should change the title of this topic to "should I feel bad for playing this way?"

Because the consensus seems to be that you played at a higher level than your opponent. Which is not fun for your opponent.

This is a game. The whole point of a game is to have fun. That is why we tailor our lists to who we are facing. Tournament goers want that high level challenge, so you bring high level lists. Casual players want to push their models across the board and feel they are doing something...so you bring a lower level list.

Im not trying to make you feel bad or anything like that. Thats just the truth of the matter. Right now Im playing in an escalation league, so I bring my tough list to those games. If my friend (who I just introduced to the game) wants to play, I bring wyches and charge right at his units with a warcry!
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mattblowers
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PostSubject: Re: Is this Power-play?   Wed Dec 27 2017, 13:16

@amishprn86 wrote:


Some ppl just like easy going games and use it to throw dice and talk, hoping for a long game with many turns not worrying about things dying. Tho we dont know if that is the case or not.

That's kinda my point. If you just want to throw dice and have a beer and pretzels game then that should be pretty easy to accomplish. "But I'm not having any fun because I'm getting beat badly" kinda shows that while the person (not the person from the OP, just speaking in general) says they just want to throw dice they also have the hidden expectation of a balanced game between two roughly equal lists (ie. competitive).

For example: at our last club pick up night I brought a really fluffy Space Marine list (No Robby G (I was rockin Marneus), no lascannons, and no razorbacks or rhinos). The person I partnered up with had brought a Deathguard competitive list that he was seeking to try out for upcoming tournament. He offered to tone it back and try a different list. I said no lets give it a whirl and see what happens I was just in the mood for a beer and pretzels game. We played a mission from the event he is going to (a modified relic). I got rolled. I mananged to get the relic with scout deployment and then lost nearly half my army and the relic on turn one. It was over. I had no chance to win. Instead I declared that the whole game was a ruse to lure Mortarion out of hiding and that I succeeded in my mission if I killed him. I spent the rest of the game trying to kill Mortarion. I didn't. He finished the game with 1 wound left. We both had a ton of fun and ended the game with meeting both of our expectations. He found ways to tweak his list/ play it more tactically, and I had a beer and pretzels lark. Had I had the expectation to win with conventional scoring I would have been sorely disappointed.

TL;DR- Beer and pretzels mind set is incompatible with the expectation for balance in scoring using scenarios for matched play. If you just want a lark, play the Open War deck: you have absolutely no idea what will pop up or how it will play out. If you don't like Open War I would argue you don't REALLY want beer and pretzels.
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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: Is this Power-play?   Wed Dec 27 2017, 14:04

It's cool that you found a way to have fun in a very lopsided game, but some players wouldn't enjoy that experience and that's okay too.

The social side of the hobby - which includes playing the actual game! - is all about communication and making sure everyone's having a good time.
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Darkin
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PostSubject: Re: Is this Power-play?   Wed Dec 27 2017, 15:26

thanks guys, i understand a lot more about mindsets now! like you guys said and i myself know, i like those competetive games where a challenge exists but my friend dosen't. the problem is i really dont know how we should balance our games so that both of us have fun?
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mattblowers
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PostSubject: Re: Is this Power-play?   Wed Dec 27 2017, 16:40

@Burnage wrote:
It's cool that you found a way to have fun in a very lopsided game, but some players wouldn't enjoy that experience and that's okay too.
Sure it's OK. Not just OK, but preferred that you actually know what you like and what you don't. Fluffy/narrative is incompatible with balanced and 'fair' where everyone is on equal footing. Open War is a ton of fun but it's wildly randomized and could really lop side a match even between two mirrored lists.

Quote :
The social side of the hobby - which includes playing the actual game! - is all about communication and making sure everyone's having a good time.
The feel badsies set in when people don't clearly communicate what they are looking for. Most people that declare themselves anti-competitive are really saying they don't want to play in a cut-throat hyper competitive environment. I actually don't find tournaments to be the evil environment they are cracked up to be online. I've seen more angry people at so called non-competitive games because players had wildly different ideas of what a fun game would be.

@darkin Try having a conversation to see what he wants to play. What does an ideal game look like to him? What does the worst game look like to him? Does he expect to be able to play his worst units because the likes the looks and still win? Is he open to suggestions about how to play his list? I did fairly well at a GT a few years ago where I ran a Tyranid list that couldn't kill much but it was able to outscore maelstrom like a boss and was really resilient. All my games were close no one I played made it to the top 8 because against me they couldn't max out their points. A Space Wolves list made max points every game except against me and it kept him from the top brackets by less than 5 points! It would have been unrealistic of me to expect to get a lot of kill points with that list, but it was a decision I made going in . Your friend may not now how to evaluate his list and have a game plan based on it's strengths. I don't know how much that helps. Some people are just grumpy when they lose, in my experience you can't do much with that.
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